Is it too easy to get level 6?

[Mr. Ab]

I'm finding that it is much too easy to get from level 5 to level 6 in most perks and there is a minimal feeling of accomplishment for getting from level 5 to 6 rather than getting from level 4 to 5.

For most perks (obviously not the Field Medic), the damage/headshot requirement for getting from level 4 to 5 is the same as the requirement for getting from level 5 to 6. And with the extra damage bonuses recieved at level 5, it is much easier/quicker to deal the same amount of damage.

Even the welding requirement for Support Specialist level 5 is +130k whereas the level 6 requirement is less (+120k). Isn't this counterintuitive?

Does anyone else agree that the level 6 requirements should be a bit higher?

 

[Unit-05]

 

[Dolphin Buff Man]

I couldn't see the image... Until is started typing a reply...?

Lol, anyway, I think SharpShooter is too easy to get up, but that could be because i pretty much always start off with that perk.

Medic is fine, Beserker is fine, Commando is fine, Support could certainly use some more welding, Firebug I think is fine, but up for debate and Demo is also about right.

SharpShooter i my main concern as headshots are incredibly easy to get and with lower levels, you level up just as quick due to 1 headshot = 1 headshot. Every other perk has damage based so if you are playing on lower difficulties, you don't go up as quick, in fact it can take bloody ages. (Of course exception being medic, but you'd expect a half decent team on lower difficulty is not going to provide to many opputunites from lots of healing.)

I can't think of anything but increase required headshots maybe, but I really don't care, it really hasn't affected it for me, but I wouldn't complain if it got increased or left as is, as long as everyone else is happy

 

[HaTeMe]

EDIT: Nevermind I think I misunderstood that a little, so what you are saying its too easy to get from 5 to 6? Bleh it still takes enough time imo.

 

[poosh]

Agree. It's weird that you need to do the same amount of damage (or headshots for ss) between levels 4-5 and 5-6. Even more, reaching level 6 is easier than reaching level 5 (except Medic), because as level 5 you:
1. spawn with perk weapon, so you can level up from wave 1;
2. deal 10% more damage;
3. can play on higher difficulties, where are more zeds and their health is bigger = faster perk progress

 

[sverek]

I think it would be cool to make 0 level guys spawn with tier 1 weapon for their classes. However, on easier levels, they got cash on spawn, so they can buy some guns.

Level 5 and 6 got guns,cause they suppose to play on suicidal and HoE. And not having a proper gun is huge burden to team.

 

[ph30nix]

i think its fine, SS is easy because wave 1 sometimes 2 people are using pistols, so thats 20-40 kills every game there that go to SS not to mention any oh crap moment you pull pistol and get a headshot. Also alot of SS weapons are used Off Perk (Xbow, LAR, Handcannon) so your leveling that without even thinking about it.

and also you cant increase the time it takes to get to level 6 without taking into account it would slightly discourage new players who want to join to play with their freinds who are already level 6 and on Suic/HoE

 

[Aze]

Lol, anyway, I think SharpShooter is too easy to get up, but that could be because i pretty much always start off with that perk.

Medic is fine, Beserker is fine, Commando is fine, Support could certainly use some more welding, Firebug I think is fine, but up for debate and Demo is also about right.

SharpShooter i my main concern as headshots are incredibly easy to get and with lower levels, you level up just as quick due to 1 headshot = 1 headshot. Every other perk has damage based so if you are playing on lower difficulties, you don't go up as quick, in fact it can take bloody ages. (Of course exception being medic, but you'd expect a half decent team on lower difficulty is not going to provide to many opputunites from lots of healing.)

I can't think of anything but increase required headshots maybe, but I really don't care, it really hasn't affected it for me, but I wouldn't complain if it got increased or left as is, as long as everyone else is happy

I would also add one more thing: I think the levelling requirements are very uneven. Why not have 2 requirement bars for each perk, like the Commando and Support has?

Regarding the Sharpshooter issue (1 headshot on any difficulty = 1 headshot either way), that could be solved by adding "damage done" as its second requirement, as then headshots on higher difficulties grant you more "damage done" value than on lower difficulties
EDIT: And as horzineplumpudding put it: It would also encourage you to shoot the bigger specimens!

In fact, i have suggestions for each perk, so they get 2 requirements each in this thread: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=51025

The secondary requirement makes you play each perk "more like you should", and also makes sure that not a single bullet/grenade/rocket/whatever that hits a specimen, wether it's a headshot or bodyshot is a wasted bullet either (Even the bullets from the Medic's weaponry, which is currently only the MP7, wouldn't be wasted! EDIT: To clarify though, it doesn't mean you HAVE to deal damage at all with the Medic to level it, only that it now won't be a wasted bullet, experience-wise!)

 

[horzineplumpudding]

Regarding the Sharpshooter issue (1 headshot on any difficulty = 1 headshot either way), that could be solved by adding "damage done" as its second requirement, as then headshots on higher difficulties grant you more "damage done" value than on lower difficulties

I fully agree with it. Now, the headshot count system rather discourages sharshooters from doing what they should do : Taking down scrakes and possibly fleshpounds.

 

[ph30nix]

I would also add one more thing: I think the levelling requirements are very uneven. Why not have 2 requirement bars for each perk, like the Commando and Support has?

Regarding the Sharpshooter issue (1 headshot on any difficulty = 1 headshot either way), that could be solved by adding "damage done" as its second requirement, as then headshots on higher difficulties grant you more "damage done" value than on lower difficulties

In fact, i have suggestions for each perk, so they get 2 requirements each in this thread: [url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=51025[/URL]

The secondary requirement makes you play each perk "more like you should", and also makes sure that not a single bullet/grenade/rocket that hits a specimen, wether it's a headshot or bodyshot is a wasted bullet either (Even the bullets from the Medic's weaponry, which is currently only the MP7, wouldn't be wasted!)

i stopped reading the second you mentioned requiring a medic to do damage to level up its perk not that i outright disagree with other suggestions but just no.

i dont want to have to worry about wether or not the medic on my team is trying to level his healing or his damage currently when im low on health especialy considering how long it takes to reload the mp7 and the fact its not realy ment to be a very damaging weapon (i remember reading somewhere before that one shot does less damage then a pistol shot)

as for the rest of the classes having dual requirements it has to do with there bonus's
Support bonus damage, Bonus to welding
Commando Bonus damage, see invis (seeing health goes along with damage in my opinion)

now i know there are more bonus's than that but im just giving examples and how some of the double requirements make sense

 

[Aze]

i stopped reading the second you mentioned requiring a medic to do damage to level up its perk not that i outright disagree with other suggestions but just no.

i dont want to have to worry about wether or not the medic on my team is trying to level his healing or his damage currently when im low on health especialy considering how long it takes to reload the mp7 and the fact its not realy ment to be a very damaging weapon (i remember reading somewhere before that one shot does less damage then a pistol shot)

Well you should've read carefully -.-
I didn't change it to damage requirement, i changed the first requirement to be BOTH healing done AND damage done with medic weapons, however, you would get a lot quicker experience by healing than killing (due to a higher ratio). So there is still absolutely ZERO need to shoot stuff as a medic, but if you DO shoot stuff with the MP7 (and possible future medicweapons), it's not wasting bullets experience-wise.


PLUS
The 2nd requirement for the Medic would be to heal allies (you get +1 for each heal, regardless of the amount of healing done), meaning you should be healing your friends as much as possible, cuz then even the tiniest heal would give you +1! Plus, this 2nd requirement would stop you from being able to solo-level the Medic

So next time, read carefully before judging
I edited my other post here so no future misunderstanding will happen cuz of lazy readers like you.

EDIT:
Besides, sometimes, killing an enemy close to a friend is a better move than to heal them. If you have your MP7 out, and a friend is being assaulted by 2 crawlers which he hasn't noticed yet, it is smarter to kill them quickly first, THEN heal the friend, because if you didn't know: If you heal a friend, then they get hurt by something, the healing effect will stop. Thus, sometimes, heals can be a waste unless you kill the threat first. So, no, shooting stuff as a Medic (using some wisdom) is not always a bad thing...

 

[ph30nix]

Well you should've read carefully -.-
I didn't change it to damage requirement, i changed the first requirement to be BOTH healing done AND damage done with medic weapons, however, you would get a lot quicker experience by healing than killing (due to a higher ratio). So there is still absolutely ZERO need to shoot stuff as a medic, but if you DO shoot stuff with the MP7 (and possible future medicweapons), it's not wasting bullets experience-wise.


PLUS
The 2nd requirement for the Medic would be to heal allies (you get +1 for each heal, regardless of the amount of healing done), meaning you should be healing your friends as much as possible, cuz then even the tiniest heal would give you +1! Plus, this 2nd requirement would stop you from being able to solo-level the Medic

So next time, read carefully before judging
I edited my other post here so no future misunderstanding will happen cuz of lazy readers like you.

EDIT:
Besides, sometimes, killing an enemy close to a friend is a better move than to heal them. If you have your MP7 out, and a friend is being assaulted by 2 crawlers which he hasn't noticed yet, it is smarter to kill them quickly first, THEN heal the friend, because if you didn't know: If you heal a friend, then they get hurt by something, the healing effect will stop. Thus, sometimes, heals can be a waste unless you kill the threat first. So, no, shooting stuff as a Medic (using some wisdom) is not always a bad thing...

your being overly defensive and testy for no reason.
Medics should heal, we dont need to encourage them to do damage nor reward them for doing so.
the MP7 is what it is for the very reason of clearing trash away from teammates AND heal them
adding damage and a Heal count to medic leveling would just add unneccsary factors to it.
Medics will choose to level the damage/healing part thru damage and could have there required ammount in 1-2 games (hell level 0-1 medic is only 2000 healing you can get that in a wave worth of damage even with mp7) so this would encourage them to use damage and NOT heal for this part unless you gimp gain from damage which you'd have to take it to a point that doing damage was useless anyways.
then add in count of heals which is already partly covered by healing done i belive 20 healing is max healing done 100k healing needed for level 6 so you need to do 5000 heals at max ammount but with most medics topping people off for even a few points of damage you end up reaching that many heals far sooner.
so to shorten it
Adding damage would A. Make leveling Medic insanly easy, or B. have to be done in a way to be useless
adding Count of heals done would be redundant

oh and any bullet/nade/rocket that hits a specimen is already not wasted as it killed/damaged a specimen.

 

[Aze]

your being overly defensive and testy for no reason.

Sorry, low bloodsugar :/

Medics should heal, we dont need to encourage them to do damage nor reward them for doing so.
the MP7 is what it is for the very reason of clearing trash away from teammates AND heal them
adding damage and a Heal count to medic leveling would just add unneccsary factors to it.
Medics will choose to level the damage/healing part thru damage and could have there required ammount in 1-2 games (hell level 0-1 medic is only 2000 healing you can get that in a wave worth of damage even with mp7) so this would encourage them to use damage and NOT heal for this part unless you gimp gain from damage which you'd have to take it to a point that doing damage was useless anyways.
then add in count of heals which is already partly covered by healing done i belive 20 healing is max healing done 100k healing needed for level 6 so you need to do 5000 heals at max ammount but with most medics topping people off for even a few points of damage you end up reaching that many heals far sooner.
so to shorten it

The numbers would ofc change too. If the max healing amount done is 100k now, it could be change to 5.5 million. Thus, the weapon damage would be meh, but still useful to level it (in particular with headshots), but with the 100 to 1 factor of heals (meaning 1 health healed, would grant 100 experience, as i mentioned in the other thread) , they would still be a superior healing device.

Adding damage would A. Make leveling Medic insanly easy, or B. have to be done in a way to be useless
adding Count of heals done would be redundant

Adding damage would
A) Make levelling Medic slightly doable even within an awesome team who never gets hurt (although, not nearly as fast as in a team where you could heal)
B) Would make people shoot stuff if in that emergency where they should (some people DON'T, cuz they feel it's a waste of experience, and thus will only heal, but that gets wasted, since they don't know enemy attacks will break the "HoT" on friends etc. Yes, i've played with such players...)

Adding count of heals done would
A) Make sure the above change with damage/healing done is not making you able to level the perk on solo play
B) Make sure you are topping of other player's health as much as possible (which can make or break wether a person dies or not, in a possible incoming emergency, rather than wait for them to drop below a certain level of health before they heal. Yes, i've played with such players too...)

oh and any bullet/nade/rocket that hits a specimen is already not wasted as it killed/damaged a specimen.

Incorrect.
* MP7 damage does NOTHING in terms of levelling experience for any perk
* 9mm, Handcannon, M14, Lever Action and Xbow bodyshots does NOTHING in terms of levelling experience for the Sharpshooter either (which is sort of a shame, considering how good the LAR (and HC, except on HoE) are at disposing Crawlers with only bodyshots)
* Mac10 non-burn damage does NOTHING in terms of levelling experience for the Firebug either.

 

[ph30nix]

i just ment your killing something, thats good enough in alot of cases.

but 5.5 million healing/damage is WAY to much the mp7 doesnt do the damage to get that and that would require minimum 275000 heals at max ammount healed....

not saying its not a interesting idea but it would be too overly complicated.

 

[Aze]

i just ment your killing something, thats good enough in alot of cases.

Ah ok, misunderstood

but 5.5 million healing/damage is WAY to much the mp7 doesnt do the damage to get that and that would require minimum 275000 heals at max ammount healed....

not saying its not a interesting idea but it would be too overly complicated.

Thanks for thinking it's an interesting idea
But unfortunately you missed yet another thing i proposed:
1 health healed, grants more than 1 experience. It grants (for example) 100 experience. (I think a ratio of 50 would be better though, so 20 health healed gives 1000 experience to this requirement.)

Besides, it's not 275000 (or 2750 with the ratio i proposed), it's less than that due to the fact that you heal more health than just 20 per injection if you heal as a Medic.

Anyway, let's assume that the ratio would be 50, and let's just assume that every heal you make only heals 20 health.

With the current 100k requirement, you would need (with its normal 1 to 1 ratio) 100000 / 20 = 5000 heals done.

With the suggested 5.5M requirement and the 50 to 1 ratio, you would need 5.500.000 / (20*50) = 5500 heals done, which is more than before, BUT, remember what i did as well? I changed the bullets to grant experience as well, meaning, that would be more than enough to offset this increase, more or less keeping the same amount of effort from the player as now, however, with the change that the MP7 (and future medicweapons) now have bullets that help you level the perk

You see the intention with this suggestion better now? ^^

And with that math done, what would be a good number on the 2nd requirement? 6000 heals? Or as many as 7500, considering the amount of tiny heals that are made?

And to answer the OP btw: I think the requirements from level 5 to 6 is ok really, but i wouldn't care if they raised them a little bit either.

 

[Lewt]

Would rather not have leveling take FOREVER to do, but challenging. Level 4 - 5s can't level up on normal mode anymore (I would prefer 2 or 3 but hey, compromise). Headshots don't apply to clots, gores, crawlers, and stalkers anymore - reduce amount needed a bit. You'd learn to pick off the awkward or dangerous targets at first, and leveling probably wouldn't feel like so much of a grind. As it is sharpy has an easily exploitable method of leveling (will not elaborate) which makes things even easier.
Firebug and demo take such a long time for me to do, that I pretty much max everything ELSE then reset my perks before they reach 5/6. Not sure if this just says I don't play them much, or not efficiently, or what, but I even get COMMANDO faster than those.



As for medics.. I got out of a game yesterday with three medics on the patriarch, along with a demo and two support specs, one of which being myself. The medics were level 3, 5, and 6, with the latter two were using their mp7's to damage the patriarch the entire time. As if that was more effective than anything else they had.

Do not want to see more medics killing things. If a medic is GOOD, they will fight, act as a meatshield, heal teammates, etc. in the order required by the situation at hand.

If a medic is BAD, he will empty his gun into specimens, accumulate 10 kills, then throw it away and start spamming his shotgun. We have enough bad medics in public servers.