Is it a game design that russians are supposed to lose more ?
- Thread starter MadGelo
- Start date
the problem with saying the German weapons are better
Is that the Russians had 2 to 3 times more of everything
So history says that on any map with 64 players
the Russians should have more players so the maps should be 36 to 28 or even higher
the Russians should all ways have more tanks and more Arty too
Or you can just throw history out the door
Is that the Russians had 2 to 3 times more of everything
So history says that on any map with 64 players
the Russians should have more players so the maps should be 36 to 28 or even higher
the Russians should all ways have more tanks and more Arty too
Or you can just throw history out the door
Then i should be allowed to shoot team mates when i'm a squad leader without a penalty.
For the summer maps, the Germans should actually have a numerical advantage.
hockeywarrior
FNG / Fresh Meat
I have this feeling that TWI somehow thought that the AVT 40 was a counterbalance to the Mkb42, in terms of how they decided to use them as mirrored weapons as far as role selection goes.
I find this funny because in game, as it would be in real life (if we go to fantasy land and assume these weapons were actually in Stalingrad), the Mkb42 is far superior to the AVT 40 in every way. The AVT 40's recoil is too high for medium/long range shooting, and its magazine capacity is far too small to make it a truly viable CQB option. The Mkb42, of course, excells in both of these roles.
Compound this with the fact that in my opinion the MP40 is far superior in terms of accuracy and hipshooting ease to the PPSH, AND the fact that the Germans get the MP40 II which allows for dual magazines, make for a very "unbalanced" game right from the get-go.
Then you have to factor in the problem that the majority of players in game either have a fully auto or semi-auto weapon, which makes things even worse.
THEN, all of this is truly make worse by the map balancing issues where many of the maps favor the Germans. Oh and lets just cap it off by saying that it's harder to see the grey German uniforms on all of the brown/gray maps, though that's not really a problem with the game necessarily.
All of these things add up to a game that is completely and utterly dominated by the German team, not surprisingly.
I find this funny because in game, as it would be in real life (if we go to fantasy land and assume these weapons were actually in Stalingrad), the Mkb42 is far superior to the AVT 40 in every way. The AVT 40's recoil is too high for medium/long range shooting, and its magazine capacity is far too small to make it a truly viable CQB option. The Mkb42, of course, excells in both of these roles.
Compound this with the fact that in my opinion the MP40 is far superior in terms of accuracy and hipshooting ease to the PPSH, AND the fact that the Germans get the MP40 II which allows for dual magazines, make for a very "unbalanced" game right from the get-go.
Then you have to factor in the problem that the majority of players in game either have a fully auto or semi-auto weapon, which makes things even worse.
THEN, all of this is truly make worse by the map balancing issues where many of the maps favor the Germans. Oh and lets just cap it off by saying that it's harder to see the grey German uniforms on all of the brown/gray maps, though that's not really a problem with the game necessarily.
All of these things add up to a game that is completely and utterly dominated by the German team, not surprisingly.
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If they dont shot you first ;=)
Soldiers did kill each per say
the Russians had kill teams for that
I hope it's not intentional. I dont think it is. I just think the roles being equal yet Germans having Superior quality SMGs doesnt help.
Stalingrad saw millions of PPSHs and not even close to that many MP40s.
I did notice that more experienced players usually join the Germans. The Germans were better trained, so at least that's accurate. Now bring on the extra fast/more re spawns for the Russians and how bout less Assault roles for Germans!
Stalingrad saw millions of PPSHs and not even close to that many MP40s.
I did notice that more experienced players usually join the Germans. The Germans were better trained, so at least that's accurate. Now bring on the extra fast/more re spawns for the Russians and how bout less Assault roles for Germans!
Are you kidding me? The MP-40 may only be marginally better than the PPSH, but the MG-34 is clearly superior to the DP-28 and there is no comparison between the MKB and the AVT.
Initial Soviet Strength was only 187,000 men, against the Axis force of 270,000.
Agreed,i think is not intentional maps design for the germans to win,there is a background,one true background.I play russians only,i like the suffering (according to the guy above the thread,we are sick),never play the germans,well,maybe for the Mkb42,the best weapon,kills all,game included.
See us around.
See us around.
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Yup...The Tower of Power. You can see most of the battlefield from that building and the Russian can't see you.
You are both right.
An attempt has been made to balance the weapons directly, IE the PPSh starting out with stick mags, and the MP-40 getting the dual mag system when the PPSh gets the drum, so Forssen has a point, HoS is by no means as asymetrical as RO:Ost was, if it where they would not have gimped the PPSh.
But then on the flipside, there is a heavy German bias in the game, pretty much all their equipment is either outright better (atleast it is coded to be), or requires less skill and practice to do the same things, and the maps aren't exactly well balanced either, and again it is mostly the German team that benifits from that.
I wanna see some late Stalingrad battles like the encirclement of the 6th army(The hammer stroke as history calls it).Where in real life the Germans was truly at a disadvantage after all they did get crushed in stalingrad.
I have no problem with maps that has one side at a disadvantage in RL few battles was equal it adds to the realism.In ro1 both sides have these types of maps so when one map was hard that side got revenge on a easier map a few rounds later. In beta the Russians had there easy to win map with Grain Elevator but their reinforcements was nerfed now it about has to be won at the first 2 caps or they run out of reinf's (it seems).
In my opinion the defending side should have the advantage as in RL its harder to assault a position than defend it (with competent defense).Its still too early to tell most of the map problems atm is teams imbalances.
It just seems atm that its a little easier to win as axis which is why I play the Russian side more for the challenge.To be fair only match I haven't seen the russians win outside of clan matches is Apartments but it was hard map in ro1 (danzig) as the russians.
"Good teamwork can beat any imbalance"
I have no problem with maps that has one side at a disadvantage in RL few battles was equal it adds to the realism.In ro1 both sides have these types of maps so when one map was hard that side got revenge on a easier map a few rounds later. In beta the Russians had there easy to win map with Grain Elevator but their reinforcements was nerfed now it about has to be won at the first 2 caps or they run out of reinf's (it seems).
In my opinion the defending side should have the advantage as in RL its harder to assault a position than defend it (with competent defense).Its still too early to tell most of the map problems atm is teams imbalances.
It just seems atm that its a little easier to win as axis which is why I play the Russian side more for the challenge.To be fair only match I haven't seen the russians win outside of clan matches is Apartments but it was hard map in ro1 (danzig) as the russians.
"Good teamwork can beat any imbalance"
With the risk of being pummeled to death by some of our forum regulars, I will question that last conclusion.
I sometimes am having a hard time trying to find feedback that isn't jumping a 'Germans are OP' bandwagon. Don't get me wrong; I'm reading most of it and take these comments as seriously as I can, but here is my problem:
I don't know why, I don't know how, but in my gaming hours so far I did not experience the German team as being the dominant team. I'm not sure why some of you have a different experience, but in the (european) servers I frequent (and i mix and match) I've seen many Allied victories on very different maps, maps that are said to be biased toward the Germans.
I just came from a totally Russian dominated Station (2 victories, Germans didn't get past the 2nd objective even). I've seen so many wins on PavlovsHouse, as gimped as it was, where Russians win twice in a row by pushing the Axis team back to their last spawn. On RedOctoberFactory I've seen many wins by the Allied team, just like tonight, capturing up to the last objective, and I could go on and on and on. Even on Commissarshouse, which can be extremely unforgiving for the Russian team in the first 10 minutes, I've witnessed plenty Russian victories on it when the Russian team actually made an intelligent effort. And by that I only mean have a half decent commander, use squad leaders and actually use the T34's. But that map does have issues that are being adressed. As is Pavlovs, which is funny, because [TW]Ohnein preceived it as balanced towards the germans, and I have yet to see a german win on it today!
I've also seen many T34's being evenly matched opponents to P4's on combined arms maps. Seen P4's being oneshotted plenty of times. I've seen T34's that seemed indestructable. I've even taken on 2 P4's by myself alone in a T34 and be successful at it. Granted the T34 has weaker turret armor, but it is not gimped to the point where it's impossible to smack P4's in the balls.
I've seen many Mkb wielding Germans get owned in the face. It is not a super weapon. Seriously. It isn't.
I've taken on many SMG wielding German opponents with a Mosin Nagant rifle and come out victorious, taking second place on the winning Russian team. And not because I killed almost as much Germans as number one, but because I killed smartly, went in to help capturing the objectives when it mattered, picked up a stray smg from a dead body when I knew I was going in close quarters frenzy style and accumulated dozens of team points next to my kills on Germans.
I'm not saying there are no balance issues, there are. I'm not saying the Russians never get pummeled by the Germans. I know it happens, I've been there. But you can see my problem when I am not constantly bulldozed by the German team as a Russian and see very simular things happen for both sides.
The Germans may have the upper hand on paper, but I yet have to see it unbalance our game as a whole.
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Post scriptum
And you know whats funny? I think this bandwagon is exactly what the biased assumptions are about the eastern front: The Germans are the almighty superweapon wielding badass Tiger aces pouring death and destruction on the poorly equipped and unorganized Russian Army, owning them all the way to Stalingrad. Guess what happened next...
Oh PS: Yes that last bit was a joke.
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