IS 2 greatest tank of ww2

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morticore

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 13, 2012
643
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Łęczyca, Poland
1jed1jMl.jpg

Polish Army Museum, my photo from visit in the independence day :rolleyes:
 
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Stiltzkin

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 13, 2015
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There is no such thing as "the best tank", there are only compromises (makes me laugh, when people say that they have a certain agenda :rolleyes:). Some tanks are good in this others are specilized for other situations. In hindsight and by giving a historical/statistical evaluation we can say that the IS2-3 as a converted howitzer was mainly used to break fortification lines, spearhead infantry battalion assaults and was ill suited for tank vs tank warfare (Solistice "Sonnenwende" is a good example and the Arab-Israeli War).
 

morticore

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 13, 2012
643
5
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Łęczyca, Poland
There is no such thing as "the best tank", there are only compromises (makes me laugh, when people say that they have a certain agenda :rolleyes:). Some tanks are good in this others are specilized for other situations. In hindsight and by giving a historical/statistical evaluation we can say that the IS2-3 as a converted howitzer was mainly used to break fortification lines, spearhead infantry battalion assaults and was ill suited for tank vs tank warfare
Actually this is not "the best or not the best tank ever thread", rather somekind of tribute to this tank because of beeing liked by many players of RO:Ost. I also would not call D-25T tank gun a howitzer - it's adopted from heavy field gun with nice muzzle velocity 800m/sec.

Is that in Wroclaw?
Warsaw - http://www.muzeumwp.pl/?language=EN
 

Stiltzkin

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 13, 2015
25
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Actually this is not "the best or not the best tank ever thread", rather somekind of tribute to this tank because of beeing liked by many players of RO:Ost. I also would not call D-25T tank gun a howitzer - it's adopted from heavy field gun with nice muzzle velocity 800m/sec.


From Zaloga IS2 Heavy Tank and Ian Allan, Stalins armoured might: derived from the KV13 (KV1S and KV2 mobile howitzer) prototype chassis and izdeliye 240 122 (chelyabinsk plant) it used an A-19 until it was replaced by the D25t (hence a converted howitzer, heavily armoured which could potentially withstand 88 shots and a powerful cannon to destroy fortifications but extremely slow - you need evasion for tank vs tank warfare like a SU85 or T34).

Cheers.
 
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morticore

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 13, 2012
643
5
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Łęczyca, Poland
From Zaloga IS2 Heavy Tank and Ian Allan, Stalins armoured might: derived from the KV13 (KV1S and KV2 mobile howitzer) prototype chassis and izdeliye 240 122 (chelyabinsk plant) it used an A-19 until it was replaced by the D25t (hence a converted howitzer, heavily armoured which could potentially withstand 88 shots and a powerful cannon to destroy fortifications but extremely slow - you need evasion for tank vs tank warfare like a SU85 or T34).

Cheers.

A-19 was never considered by Russians as a howitzer:
- https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/122-%D0%BC%D0%BC_%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%88%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7%D1%86%D0%B0_1931/37_%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B2_%28%D0%90-19%29
(a howizter in Russian is gaubitsa, a gun (tank gun, field gen etc.) is called pushka; google translate works nice with this wiki page, excet army crops is translatet as cabinet :p )
I know wikipedia is just wikipedia, but not a bad place to start.

- "Otechestvennye bronirovannye mashiny. XX vek" : nauchnoe izdanie v 4-kh tomakh/ Solyankin A.G., Pavlov M.V., Pavlov I.V., Zheltov I.G./ Tom 2. "Otechestvennye bronirovannye mashiny. 1941-1945" , Moscow, Exprint, 2005

For another time: A-19 is corps level gun (field gun), D-25 is a tank gun

- A-19 in Finnish Army service (in coast defence)
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/COASTAL_ARTILLERY2.htm#122K31
Still classified as a gun

122mm D-25T was a very potent tank gun (25 kilos AP could penetrate comparable armour thickness as his opponent from 8.8cm KwK 43/L71).
I agree, it's clearly not an ultimate tank killer - slow rate of fire seriously limits IS2/3 tanks combat performance.
Best regards,
morti
 
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Stiltzkin

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 13, 2015
25
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from the encyclopedia of Soviet artillery:
The (A-19) was a Soviet field gun developed in the late 1930s by combining the barrel of the 122 mm gun M1931 (A-19) and the carriage of the 152 mm howitzer-gun M1937 (ML-20) - its even written on wikipedia.
The D25 is the tank variant of this gun from plant 127 if i remember correctly.
translated freely: "The D25 a tank variant of the A19 conversion".
The chelyabinsk plant experimented with many prototype guns and A19 variants (some of them were shorter barreled guns).

The IS tanks were converted from Kliment Voroshilov series version 1 and 2 AFVs of which the second one was a fortification busting howitzer aka the KV-2.
If weapon systems would be valued simply by their "massive" guns then the Dora or Maus would have been outstanding (which they were not, they were horrible and futile maldevelopments). If it hits something, sure its gonna blow up but first try to get there. Just compare a Rapier to an Axe, the Rapier is the better dueling weapon, the Axe will cut down the tree.

compare
Zaloga, Kavalerchik, Ian Allen, Ivanov , Artillery of the Udssr and so on.
also Tankovy udar. Sovetskie tanki v boyakh 42-43 they mention the D5t and D25.

Cheers
 
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morticore

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 13, 2012
643
5
0
Łęczyca, Poland
from the encyclopedia of Soviet artillery:
The (A-19) was a Soviet field gun developed in the late 1930s by combining the barrel of the 122 mm gun M1931 (A-19) and the carriage of the 152 mm howitzer-gun M1937 (ML-20) - its even written on wikipedia.
Use of howitzer carriage don't turn gun into a howitzer. It was done to simplify production process.

The D25 is the tank variant of this gun from plant 127 if i remember correctly.
Yes, exactly, and the A-19 is a heavy field gun.
12,2 cm Kanone 390/2(r) in German service
http://www.battlefield.ru/a19.html
And according to Ivanov's Artillery of the Ussr in second world war it's still a gun.
The IS tanks were converted from Kliment Voroshilov series version 1 and 2 AFVs of which the second one was a fortification busting howitzer aka the KV-2.
The IS family replaced obsolete KVs, but it doesn't mean that IS-2 was considered since beginning as the successor of the KV-2. At the beginning it was just IS-85 (or rather should be called in this moment as family Objects 23x...) ant this tank was further tested with many other guns (in example 122 mm tank howitzer U-11, maybe it can be a little confusing in this case...). Finally the designers choise was A-19 and later its modifed tank version the D-25T. It seems so large calibre gun was more efficient to the planned tasks of IS-2 tank than a howitzer.

Cheers :IS2:
 

Stiltzkin

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 13, 2015
25
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Yes, exactly, and the A-19 is a heavy field gun.
12,2 cm Kanone 390/2(r) in German service
http://www.battlefield.ru/a19.html[url]http://www.battlefield.ru/a19.html[/URL]
And according to Ivanov's Artillery of the Ussr in second world war it's still a gun.
So we are agreeing to disagree here.

I know that the A-19 is a field gun you dont have to repeat that all the time (nobody stated its a howitzer either, i stated that the KV system was derived from Infantry support tanks and mobile combat howitzers).
However, the D25 is a tank variant of this gun taking parts from howitzer guns for example the ML-20(nothing is gonna change that no matter how persistent you are). Look up the plant 127 reports or Zalogas IS2 Heavy tank series.

The IS were introduced as super heavy "breakthrough" tanks which were used in conjunction with Infantry and T34/85 Battalions which would take over and exploit the breakthrough.
However postwar Soviet tank designs were based mostly on the T44 series (there is a reason for that) and the IS series would ultimately develop into a dead end.
 

Yoshiro

In Soviet Russia, Yoshiro is a cake
Staff member
Oct 10, 2005
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I am currently trying to find information about IS-2/IS-2M/IS-3 seeing combat in Vietnam. If anybody knows anything on that ping me!

All easy signs point to Korea and China got them and even did some clone work to make their own (China) but favored the new T series as they came out.
 

morticore

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 13, 2012
643
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Łęczyca, Poland
I checked Polish Militaria series, issues 294 and 306, (aka Tank Power volumes: LXIV and LXXII). There is no info about use IS family tanks in Vietnam. In my opinion is very reliable source, based mostly on Soviets archives.
 
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