Iron sites are too steady IMO

[Mekhazzio]

Considering that, there is no reason to play RO2 when there's BF3, which strikes the best balance between gameplay and realism. If you don't mind the change of setting, of course.

You don't think that a statement like that is maybe a wee bit subjective?

I don't see "gameplay" and "realism" as competing interests on a single axis. There's no need to compromise one for the other as long as you build the design with both in mind from the start. It's quite possible to improve both at once, or in BF3's case IMO, throw both out the window at once. I love the action FPS genre, but all these shallow "+100 XP!"-style manshoots lately have been a blight upon the genre.

 

[DamDSx]

afaik it's pretty normal, you hear instructors often talk about the "figure 8" that a sight will make when swaying.

Nice, I figured it out all on my own! I feel special

 

[Floyd]

Nice, I figured it out all on my own! I feel special

Truth be known (a rare commodity), unless supported, the sights are never motionless. A true marksman learns to squeeze the shot off as the sight crosses the desired point of aim. But what do I know?

 

[DamDSx]

Truth be known (a rare commodity), unless supported, the sights are never motionless. A true marksman learns to squeeze the shot off as the sight crosses the desired point of aim. But what do I know?

Thats what I do, and I never, ever had training.

I guess it is natural in humans to aim and shoot properly, huh?

 

[Floyd]

Thats what I do, and I never, ever had training.

I guess it is natural in humans to aim and shoot properly, huh?

Its been my experience that some can and some can't. Some excel, some struggle. Some can shoot anything with a stock but yet couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with a pistol (and vice versa). But on teh internets, we are all pros. Odd that though there are plenty of weapons pics and claims of fantastic groupings there are seldom any pics of said groupings (even those from a rest). But I digress and am going off topic....

 

[Recoup]

I'm not afraid to admit that I have trouble hitting anything with my Mosin, despite having owned it for five years now. Of course, not many places to go shooting in North Texas that don't require the use of soft point or hollow point ammunition, making expending all my FMJ impossible unless I own a plot of land or drive very far away to attend an FMJ-friendly shooting range.

I'm a terrific shot with a pistol, though, so Floyd's statement rings true!

I agree that sway is certainly robotic in this game, but then if I wanted it to be realistic I would go shooting for myself. The thing is if you wanted to balance sway you'd have to factor in training and the human condition, probably making the German soldiers have better control of their weapons than the conscripted peasantry of the Red Army. And then there's fatigue, heart rate, etc. In the end it's just too much to think about when you simply want to sit back and enjoy the game. Yeah, realism is a cool idea but in the end the game will never be as realistic is real life.

TL;DR: Mosins are indeed hard to aim with, and the game is fine how it is.

 

[Krane65]

I agree with people in here. If I sayed as much as I do holding the mosin in real life, this game would be awful.

The only thing I guess I truly have a poblem with is how fast these russians can manouvre that bulky and heavy rifle. For instance when crouching behind a window in game and popping up and shooting quickly would be almost impossible for me to do in real life with that heavy/long gun... They manage to squeeze off a perfect shot and pop back down as quickly and flawlessly as they popped up..... Insane!

Oh and not to mention how long the 91/30 is....when running through a building it would seem almost inevitable to run into something or get your rifle stuck in a doorway etc. Or awkwardly turning to make it through a confined area... Non of that is modeled in RO2, which is a great thing considering it would make the game unpleasant if it were that realistic.

And those that argue that the amount a person works out affects how steady a rifle can be held... Well I doubt Russians during WWII were body builders. I'm pretty sure most of them were highly malnurished and weak... Same way with the Germans. Most were probably of average strength for their day and probably below average strength in comparison to someone today. It's a proven fact that people today are taller, bigger, and stronger than people 70 years ago. You ever see a WWI uniform in a museum? They are TINY and I'd have a hard time fitting into it and I'm a very small man by todays standards.

 

[r5cya]

I'm not afraid to admit that I have trouble hitting anything with my Mosin, despite having owned it for five years now. Of course, not many places to go shooting in North Texas that don't require the use of soft point or hollow point ammunition, making expending all my FMJ impossible unless I own a plot of land or drive very far away to attend an FMJ-friendly shooting range.

unless you're loading your own ammo, those hunting rounds are probably using .308" bullets. add that to what's probably a worn out bore and it doesn't make for an accurate rifle. have you slugged your bore?

I agree with people in here. If I sayed as much as I do holding the mosin in real life, this game would be awful.

The only thing I guess I truly have a poblem with is how fast these russians can manouvre that bulky and heavy rifle. For instance when crouching behind a window in game and popping up and shooting quickly would be almost impossible for me to do in real life with that heavy/long gun... They manage to squeeze off a perfect shot and pop back down as quickly and flawlessly as they popped up..... Insane!

Oh and not to mention how long the 91/30 is....when running through a building it would seem almost inevitable to run into something or get your rifle stuck in a doorway etc. Or awkwardly turning to make it through a confined area... Non of that is modeled in RO2, which is a great thing considering it would make the game unpleasant if it were that realistic.

And those that argue that the amount a person works out affects how steady a rifle can be held... Well I doubt Russians during WWII were body builders. I'm pretty sure most of them were highly malnurished and weak... Same way with the Germans. Most were probably of average strength for their day and probably below average strength in comparison to someone today. It's a proven fact that people today are taller, bigger, and stronger than people 70 years ago. You ever see a WWI uniform in a museum? They are TINY and I'd have a hard time fitting into it and I'm a very small man by todays standards.

i can't argue your first two ponts. not sure about the third though. i bet those russian "peasants" could kick most of our butts, even after being malnourished!

 

[Recoup]

unless you're loading your own ammo, those hunting rounds are probably using .308" bullets. add that to what's probably a worn out bore and it doesn't make for an accurate rifle. have you slugged your bore?

Конечно, I have slugged my bore. I own three Mosins in total, though one is a "case queen", and the bore on my 91/30 is very bright. The lands and grooves are also very strong, so I know that the problem is user error and not weapon error. I would enjoy a trip to a non-FMJ range so I can fire the surplus military ammo I have, but for now it's limited to using crappy Russian commercial ammo. I am familiar with the various load sizes however and own a reloading kit, though I have not been able to make any ammunition since I moved into this rent house.

i can't argue your first two ponts. not sure about the third though. i bet those russian "peasants" could kick most of our butts, even after being malnourished!

They could indeed. Farm labor, which made up a majority of Russian peasant labor, was grueling and they were very tough, rugged individuals. Despite food shortages, Russian peasants were built like oxen.

 

[Reise]

If you can't hold steady like the boys in RO2 can while aiming their rifles, you should work on your technique.

Your own stress will translate into missed shots in-game anyway, so it all evens out. Plus most of the time you're shooting at too short of a range for sway to even matter.

Ostfront had a pretty pronounced sway but that only made a difference at decent range, too. Making standing shouldered shots was pretty difficult. But when you're putting shots on people from across a road or something within 50 yards, all the sway in the world won't make a difference.

 

[Recoup]

If you can't hold steady like the boys in RO2 can while aiming their rifles, you should work on your technique.

A 4kg rifle can be held laser-point steady standing after sprinting? Sure. It's my technique, not the game's unrealistic depiction.

 

[r5cya]

A 4kg rifle can be held laser-point steady standing after sprinting? Sure. It's my technique, not the game's unrealistic depiction.

why exaggerate what he said? stating an actual reason would be much more convincing.

 

[Cwivey]

You can't even do that in-game.

 

[Nazarov]

If you can't hold steady like the boys in RO2 can while aiming their rifles, you should work on your technique.

Your own stress will translate into missed shots in-game anyway, so it all evens out. Plus most of the time you're shooting at too short of a range for sway to even matter.

Ostfront had a pretty pronounced sway but that only made a difference at decent range, too. Making standing shouldered shots was pretty difficult. But when you're putting shots on people from across a road or something within 50 yards, all the sway in the world won't make a difference.

Yes. I love the MGs that snipe me as a result, along with his suppressing effects. Graphics are so blended so you can only see some one when they shoot even if they are 50 yards away. So no, all the sway in the world do not make a different.

 

[Recoup]

why exaggerate what he said? stating an actual reason would be much more convincing.

It's not an exaggeration, as I've been able to run full-force down through the housing blocks of Spartonovka and then readily pick off targets making their way over the hills of the gully with a Mosin, standing, at roughly 100m. The characteristics of aiming in RO2 vary from those when shouldering a weighted rifle where the weight is felt heavily in the supporting hand - in this case my left hand. In RO2 the shooter expresses no fatigue from a rifle's actual weight, when they move the front of the rifle is always on-point while the rear sight leaf skirts left and right, and holding the weapon for an extended duration has no effect on the shooter's ability to hit the target.

Furthermore the mechanic of "trigger pull" on the shooter and their conditioning that comes with being accustomed to not only anticipating the round being fired, but also their reaction in not jerking or flinching at the actual firing plays a role in shooting that the game cannot illustrate. So the short answer is no - you cannot shoot like the guys in RO2, because their shooting is not based on reality and is instead based on algorithms that calculate artificial circumstances that may cause additional movement with the sights, such as being out of breath. The shooting in RO2 is a fictional environment with fictional firing mechanics and tactics, and thus one cannot be told to emulate them as they do not apply to real-life shooters.

Hopefully that is explicit enough for you.

In relation to the OP's post, I think the firing mechanics in-game are fine as they are. They make the game fun enough and challenging enough as it is.

 

[r5cya]

you cannot hold a 4kg weapon, laser-pointer steady, standing, after sprinting in this game. that IS an exageration.

 

[Recoup]

you cannot hold a 4kg weapon, laser-pointer steady, standing, after sprinting in this game. that IS an exageration.

I didn't say the character had to be exhausted. Any amount of sprinting, in reality, tires a shooter. There is no magic meter that depletes, to a point where "Okay, NOW you can't hold as steady."

Tis' not an exaggeration, as I have performed this feat myself.

 

[r5cya]

I didn't say the character had to be exhausted. Any amount of sprinting, in reality, tires a shooter. There is no magic meter that depletes, to a point where "Okay, NOW you can't hold as steady."

Tis' not an exaggeration, as I have performed this feat myself.

i didn't say the word "exhausted" either. why did you even say that?
i just tested your theory, with a Mosin, in every game mode. there is no mode that you can hold the rifle "laser-point" steady, while standing, unsupported. i'll even go one further, there is no mode that you can hold the rifle "laser-point" steady in RO2 at all. not after running. not after jogging. not after walking. further, you cannot hold a rifle "laser-point" steady crouching or prone. exhausted (now i said it) or not, it is not possible to hold a rifle without some amount of sway, in any mode of this game, in any position.
even with the rifle supported, there is sway in every mode!
try it again and see if you want to still come back and say there was no exaggeration.
there is only one exception to this. when holding your breath, you will get "almost" no sway, for about three seconds.

 

[Recoup]

i didn't say the word "exhausted" either. why did you even say that?
i just tested your theory, with a Mosin, in every game mode. there is no mode that you can hold the rifle "laser-point" steady, while standing, unsupported. i'll even go one further, there is no mode that you can hold the rifle "laser-point" steady in RO2 at all. not after running. not after jogging. not after walking. further, you cannot hold a rifle "laser-point" steady crouching or prone. exhausted (now i said it) or not, it is not possible to hold a rifle without some amount of sway, in any mode of this game, in any position.
even with the rifle supported, there is sway in every mode!
try it again and see if you want to still come back and say there was no exaggeration.
there is only one exception to this. when holding your breath, you will get "almost" no sway, for about three seconds.

You are right, laser-point steady was an exaggeration on my part and I apologize. However I will still contend that the steadiness the rifle is held in the game does not accurately reflect reality.

My response was primarily directed towards Reise who claims their steady aim is able to be replicated in reality, which it is not, and that anyone who can't do what the characters in video games do is lacking in technique. Perhaps if I were made up of more 1s and 0s then I would be able to.

 

[r5cya]

thank you, but there's no need to apologize.
i agree that some of the sway is unrealistic. they sway we have in realism and action, for example. you have the same sway whether you've been running 100 meters or resting all game. the sway when resting a rifle or a fence or the side of a building is wrong as well. it's the same as if you weren't supporting the rifle at all. the "hold breath" feature is borked as well. why should we only be able to hold our breath for a few seconds when we haven't even been running? i've been smoking for 35 years and can hold my breath longer. the only thing they got right, was that sway is reduced as you crounch and further as you go prone.
i wouldn't mind more sway in the game, if, supporting the weapon and the hold breath feature worked the way they should.

as far as shooting a real mosin as accurate as the one's in game, i say that in some circumstances it's easier in the game and in some it's easier in real life. as far as shooting unsupported, I find it easier in the game. it's only beacuse where i shoot, it's off a bench. i have no practice shooting unsupported. i'm sure if i practiced i would be as good as the game though. when i first got a mosin, i couldn't hit the side of a barn with it. with practice, i now have no problem hitting a stationary target in the kill zone all day long at 200-300 yards.
as far as shooting in the game supported, compared to real life? real life wins. the game will not let us hold the rifle as steady as we can at the range.
shooting when tired from running? the game wins again. no penalty at all, that i can see from being winded.
the thing we have to remember is, real life weapon characteristics, don't neccesarily mean fun game-play. and if the game isn't fun, who cares about real life mechanics? no one will be there to notice.
i said this quite a while ago, it would be really interesting if we had a target range to have shooting competitions in. i did some testing with Mekhazio's bullet trace mutator thingy, the one that showed your bullets flight and left it's mark after the shot. it was a real eye opener as to how accurate/innacurate the games weapons are. something that would let us get together and time us shooting at targets and keep score would really be interesting.