Iron sites are too steady IMO

[Krane65]

the bruise goes away after a few hundred rounds. i haven't had one in five years. there was the day, when i felt like you do know though. now i pound them all night, three times a week and do not feel the round. the point is, you really aren't in a position to say that the mosin doesn't sway enough in game. are you? you're still learning how to shoot it.
my apologies for sounding like a dick. it's because i am one.
come to my range one day. i'm a rso at coyote point in the s.f. bay area. i'll convince you to become a member.

Oh I'm far from the sf bay area. I live in Missery. But maybe there is a nice gun club around here somewhere that has a nice range.

 

[blkmgc]

Especially for the mosin nagant. I have the pleasure of owning a 91/30 and I can say that thing is like holding a long 2x4. I move around much more than the game characters do when shooting free handed. The Russians in RO2 can pretty much hold their weapon with the sites barely moving at all.

I don't know maybe I'm just really shaky and the Russians werent?

I own just about every WWII era rifle from all sides , and I agree........

........but it doesn't translate into anything that resembles good game play though since so many other real life aspects are not and cannot be duplicated in a game.

 

[Calumhm]

I own just about every WWII era rifle from all sides , and I agree........

........but it doesn't translate into anything that resembles good game play though since so many other real life aspects are not and cannot be duplicated in a game.

That's a total blanket-statement. RO1 had TONS of sway, and was one of the best and most unique FPSs I ever played.

You almost made a good point though, features shouldn't always be implemented just because they're realistic (on paper); realistic ideas don't always translate to realistic gameplay.

 

[dogbadger]

I always thought in RO that you should snap up to iron sights quicker but suffer considerable sway for a second or two until you get the weapon tightly fixed, then you have a pretty steady window before a fatigue sway builds up.
Phaps you could even add this as a quick iron sights option as opposed to the standard slow, deliberate raising of the weapon, differentiated by single/double or hold RMB choices.
Its a bit late for that now, but it was raised when discussing RO2 prior to release, as i found the raising of weapon a bit laborious and unrealistically long winded in some circumstances.

I agree that asides from weapon resting there should probably be more sway in RO2.

 

[Cyper]

Sway in general for guns is far higher than one might think. Because real guns have weight - it's not paper glued to your hand.


Attach a laser pointer to a weapon and go to a dark place and aim at something about ten meters away, 50, 90, 130 170, 210, and 310 meters away. Aim from both standing and crouching position. Aim while going from standing to crouching, and crouching to standing in a quick fluid motion. Aim down the sight while walking forward and sideways, both in standing and crouching position. Sprint (e.i running as fast as you possibly can) and then stop and repeat the same procedure.

While I never have tried this....... I find it very unlikely that its going to be similar to how people handle their guns in RO2. Mostly because real guns requires YOU to handle recoil, and because YOU must control the sway, and because the weapon have weight - its not paper glued to your hand. Also consider to put your rifle on your back and switch to pistol in ironsight as fast as in ro2.

 

[Poerisija]

While at it, ask your friend shoot you to check out the respawn time IRL.

We're talking about a game here.

 

[CocaineInMyBrain]

While at it, ask your friend shoot you to check out the respawn time IRL.

We're talking about a game here.

Nope they won't stop until the game is as miserable and frustrating as fighting in the actual Battle of Stalingrad.

 

[Proud_God]

While at it, ask your friend shoot you to check out the respawn time IRL.

We're talking about a game here.

A nice variation on the ever-solid 'if you want realism, join the army!' argument.

 

[DamDSx]

Sway in general for guns is far higher than one might think. Because real guns have weight - it's not paper glued to your hand.


Attach a laser pointer to a weapon and go to a dark place and aim at something about ten meters away, 50, 90, 130 170, 210, and 310 meters away. Aim from both standing and crouching position. Aim while going from standing to crouching, and crouching to standing in a quick fluid motion. Aim down the sight while walking forward and sideways, both in standing and crouching position. Sprint (e.i running as fast as you possibly can) and then stop and repeat the same procedure.

While I never have tried this....... I find it very unlikely that its going to be similar to how people handle their guns in RO2. Mostly because real guns requires YOU to handle recoil, and because YOU must control the sway, and because the weapon have weight - its not paper glued to your hand. Also consider to put your rifle on your back and switch to pistol in ironsight as fast as in ro2.

I did that with my k98, I didnt have a laser pointer, it wasnt dark, but I tried firing crouched, standing and running. switching between them all to simulate a "combat" situation (obviously that was far from combat, but it was the best I could do) and I can say it was extremely hard to hit anyting.

I saw a lot of bullet talks, I buy the 1000 round yugo surplus 8mm mauser ammo, so Ive shot quite a few rounds. I cant hold it stead for too long.
Since the sway almost always follows a pattern (unless you are running) you can plan shots depending on when you will be passing the target with your aim. This may be unconventional but it works, I do not know anyone in the forces or anything of the sort to know if this is normal or not, but it works for me, specially when standing, tired, after firing 100 plus rounds.

 

[Ermac]

A lot of it depends on the strength of the particular person. A person who rarely works out or does hard manual labor isn't going to be able to hold the rifle steady as somebody who does. A lot of times in Ostfront, sway didn't really matter, unless it you were using a bolt action and taking a longer range shot.

 

[Cyper]

While at it, ask your friend shoot you to check out the respawn time IRL.

We're talking about a game here.

No, we're talking about a tactical shooter, or even better - Red Orchestra.

If you want realism join the army.
If you don't want a touch of realism then don't join up this community.

Fair?

 

[Trotskygrad]

I did that with my k98, I didnt have a laser pointer, it wasnt dark, but I tried firing crouched, standing and running. switching between them all to simulate a "combat" situation (obviously that was far from combat, but it was the best I could do) and I can say it was extremely hard to hit anyting.

I saw a lot of bullet talks, I buy the 1000 round yugo surplus 8mm mauser ammo, so Ive shot quite a few rounds. I cant hold it stead for too long.
Since the sway almost always follows a pattern (unless you are running) you can plan shots depending on when you will be passing the target with your aim. This may be unconventional but it works, I do not know anyone in the forces or anything of the sort to know if this is normal or not, but it works for me, specially when standing, tired, after firing 100 plus rounds.

afaik it's pretty normal, you hear instructors often talk about the "figure 8" that a sight will make when swaying.

 

[r5cya]

No, we're talking about a tactical shooter, or even better - Red Orchestra.

If you want realism join the army.
If you don't want a touch of realism then don't join up this community.

Fair?

nope. not fair at all. because whatever you thought you were going to buy (and are so unhappy with) it IS a GAME.
now you're going to call our game a "Red Orchestra"? so as to seperate it from mere "games" or even lesser "shooters"?
was it even ever advertised as a "tactical shooter"? or is that just what you were hoping it was going to be? i don't remember them saying that's what we were buying. guess it's time to pull out the original trailers.

 

[>< f4ct0r...13]

Realism usually doesn't go hand in hand with fun and exciting gameplay

Actually, it can. The idea that one must manage their energy wisely, or suffer the consequences, is a real life condition, and anyone requiring authenticity in order to have fun and exciting gameplay would require it.

The RO method of sway is good approximation, but not even close to penalizing enough to be authentic.

 

[Conscript]

I think sway is very well represented in RO2 - at least, it is in Classic mode which is what I play mostly. A proper steady shot requires a lot of concentration and/or a decent support, and if you try and shoot while tired, forget it. Scope sway matches the breathing and stamina pattern beautifully in my opinion. It 'feels' right - realistic but natural, not cumbersome.

 

[Swarley (RO2)]

I think it's fine as-is.

The Australian Defence Force has been teaching the application of correct marksmanship principles since day one. If you're taught, or you know, how to apply basic rifleman concepts like controlled breathing, reaching your optimal heartrate area, and following the marksmanship principles, then even with your adrenal glands pumping and all sorts of noise and action going on around you, you are able to take that one steady shot that counts.

That's the point of marksmanship principles, and that's the point of having trained riflemen who practice firing out up to and beyond 400 metres, instead of just grabbing farmers and their Lee Enfield.
In this game, you're playing as Fritz the German Rifleman, not Joe-From-Round-the-Corner-Who-Goes-Out-to-Shoot-His-K98-at-the-Farm-Every-Weekend-and-is-a-Pretty-Alright-Shot.

If our military have been teaching this for over a hundred years, it's a safe bet that the German and Russian armies were doing the same.

Perhaps if this game were trying to be incredibly realistic, a SEV2-style heartrate monitor would be pretty decent, but as-is, it's fine.

 

[r5cya]

i think it's fine as-is.

The australian defence force has been teaching the application of correct marksmanship principles since day one. If you're taught, or you know, how to apply basic rifleman concepts like controlled breathing, reaching your optimal heartrate area, and following the marksmanship principles, then even with your adrenal glands pumping and all sorts of noise and action going on around you, you are able to take that one steady shot that counts.

That's the point of marksmanship principles, and that's the point of having trained riflemen who practice firing out up to and beyond 400 metres, instead of just grabbing farmers and their lee enfield.
In this game, you're playing as fritz the german rifleman, not joe-from-round-the-corner-who-goes-out-to-shoot-his-k98-at-the-farm-every-weekend-and-is-a-pretty-alright-shot.

If our military have been teaching this for over a hundred years, it's a safe bet that the german and russian armies were doing the same.

Perhaps if this game were trying to be incredibly realistic, a sev2-style heartrate monitor would be pretty decent, but as-is, it's fine.

before someone says it, please don't mention that "we" aren't trained soldiers, so our avatars in-game should not act like they know how to shoot.

 

[Swarley (RO2)]

before someone says it, please don't mention that "we" aren't trained soldiers, so our avatars in-game should not act like they know how to shoot.

Heh, game is a game. Having lots, some, little or no firearms-handling experience ultimately doesn't enter into it. I know a few current and a lot of ex-serving members play RO2, but in the end it's not like that has anything to do with...anything, ultimately.

It's around for fun - that's certainly why I play anything. If it isn't fun, there's always my car to wash or a dish to clean or something I could be doing.

Personally I'm not a big fan of people banging on about realism, and it sort of begs the question to me of when there's 'enough' realism.
People go on about wanting there to be a perfectly human amount of resistance when firing a rifle, or even the slightest audio increase in the 'crack' of a nearby round for authenticity, yet we're happy for...the world to magically turn black, white and fuzzy when you're suppressed, as an example.

I dunno', there was about an 8-10 year gap between me playing RO2 and playing any other online game, so I guess I missed a lot (like absolutely any CoD - or RO1, for that matter). Apart from some minor bugs, which always get picked up along the way over time, I think this game's perfect from my naive point of view. I've sunk 250+ hours into on across two Steam profiles, and especially as custom maps keep rolling through and being improved upon, I'm just enjoying it more - realism or no.

Anyhoo, just my two cents. Enough walls of text.

 

[Rak]

Realism doesn't mean throwing in whatever arbitrary handicap you feel like. Arbitrary behavior is all well and good, but at least be honest about what it really is. The term "realistic" doesn't magically make a concept innately superior on a game design level, especially not when you're misusing the term to begin with.

Considering that, there is no reason to play RO2 when there's BF3, which strikes the best balance between gameplay and realism. If you don't mind the change of setting, of course.

RO's only unique traits are it's differentiating features which are mostly absent in RO2. People loved RO because the guns "sway", because the characters are cumbersome, because it has a slower pace with occasional peaks within, because mastering each of these take time and when you do, it's immensely satisfying.

Who am I to speak, though. I'm probably a harcore realism nazi, a remnant from the old nagging vets. I'll keep playing BF3 meanwhile, though.

 

[Proud_God]

I would love to see some minor sight misalignments when raising the IS, and when changing positions.