As is, the MP-40 is basically a fully-automatic rifle with no recoil at all. I understand that it was overdone in RO1, but this seems a little silly. So do the MGs, at least being fired from the hip. They are basically WMD in close quarters combat.
Increase recoil of MP-40 and hipfiring MGs
- Thread starter Lucan946
- Start date
There will be almost no balance changes made for this game. Tripwire's not going to increase the MP-40's recoil to XXX and modify it's damage to XXX.
The recoil weapons have is designed to be realistic. MP-40s are very, very easy to control, and Machine Guns weigh so much that their recoil is relatively low too.
Very true. SMGs are a low caliber pistol round, and one with an all-metal construction like the MP-40 or the heavy wood-and-metal construction of the PPSh would handle recoil very well.
the MP40 is a "machine pistol", probably easier to think of it like that and the recoil makes sense.
Fair enough. Perhaps the MGs should be made to be harder to maneuver with then, i.e whilst one is equipped you turn at only half the speed of someone with, say, a PPSh, regardless of your mouse sensitivity. Because if you have come up against them in CQC you know they are a bit silly as is.
Then should the recoil of the PPSh be toned down? I've never fired one so I have no way of knowing, but the PPSh certainly has much greater recoil than the MP-40 (although it still isn't very much), although I assumed it was because of its greater ROF. That being said, it does sometimes randomly jump when you're firing 2-3 round bursts, when other times it doesn't (from the same position, with no changes in suppression or any additional support). I'm assuming it's some sort of minor bug.
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Your soldier isn't a robot, the guns won't handle identically everytime.
I wasn't suggesting they should. I was suggesting it seems odd that one time firing two rounds doesn't change much, while the next time firing two rounds brings the gun so high up that it seems like I fired half a magazine.
I've actually fired a handful of SMGs in real life, notably the M11 and the MP7, both of which are fairly lightweight, all-metal guns with a pretty punishing recoil simply because there is no heft to them. Between the rate of fire and their small nature, it requires a fair deal of force to keep them on target.
Now, never having fired the MP-40 or PPSh (but being experienced with weapons with a similar wood and metal construction), I would hazard a guess that they would handle recoil a lot better than the smaller, more modern SMGs due to a slower RoF (in the MP40, at least) or more weight near the front (drum magazine + barrel combined with the wooden stock on the PPSh) would be a lot more managable. On the other hand, the PPSh is a bullet hose with a massive RoF, so I can imagine that the vibrations from the recoil and the mechanism would make it difficult to keep on target for extended bursts.
Long story short, I think they're both about right as it stands.
Okay, thanks for the info. I thought the RoF was probably why the PPSh has more of a kick to it.
No worries man.
By the way, for the curious, my assumptions come from having handled an actual M1 Garand, Kar98, and Mauser IRL. They tend to be a little nicer to shoot (if a bit harder to aim) than modern aluminum and plastic guns because the weight makes the recoil a lot more manageable (basic principles of inertia and all that rot). I assume that this is the same for higher RoF guns, thought as I said the only automatics I have shot have been metal and plastic SMGs, so I could be wrong here.
By the way, for the curious, my assumptions come from having handled an actual M1 Garand, Kar98, and Mauser IRL. They tend to be a little nicer to shoot (if a bit harder to aim) than modern aluminum and plastic guns because the weight makes the recoil a lot more manageable (basic principles of inertia and all that rot). I assume that this is the same for higher RoF guns, thought as I said the only automatics I have shot have been metal and plastic SMGs, so I could be wrong here.
It's different story bracing the weapon properly and shooting while standing\slowly walking than just jog around with 20-25lb weapon firing full sized rifle bullets from unsupported and unbraced stance (notice the animations and general way it holds it). It's a good way to kill your shoulders and back in few seconds.
Or do you run around firing MP40 or PPSh (or say a rifle) with just one hand just because in theory if you're strong enough to do so you could do it for the sake of doing it?
If you run with the MG34 in-game and fire from the hip recoil will be much higher than standing still, upright, braced, and firing from the hip. I noticed this just today.
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The PPSH has a lot of recoil for several reasons.
1. Its light weight.
2.Its High rate of fire
3. The General Design of the weapon
No 3 means that, because of the emphasis of quantity over quality in 1930s/40s Russia, the weapons were designed to be simple, and basically just be reliable.
The original account of the first production of the PPSH was an improvised SMG, by cutting the stock from a Mosin Nagant '91, and fixing a stamped steel weapon system to it.
The design was then slightly improved, then mass produced.
The design itself never properly balanced the weapon, and the poor equilibrium of the weapon, the trigger guard acts as a type of fulcrum for the gun to rotate around, thus causing more recoil.
Hope that clears things up.
1. Its light weight.
2.Its High rate of fire
3. The General Design of the weapon
No 3 means that, because of the emphasis of quantity over quality in 1930s/40s Russia, the weapons were designed to be simple, and basically just be reliable.
The original account of the first production of the PPSH was an improvised SMG, by cutting the stock from a Mosin Nagant '91, and fixing a stamped steel weapon system to it.
The design was then slightly improved, then mass produced.
The design itself never properly balanced the weapon, and the poor equilibrium of the weapon, the trigger guard acts as a type of fulcrum for the gun to rotate around, thus causing more recoil.
Hope that clears things up.
I hope you're being sarcastic, because while that may apply to some games, it doesn't apply to Red Orchestra. The game is supposed to be realism>balance.
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