If Americans were in RO...

[BeserkWraithlor]

How could other sides compete? Most of the German and Russian infantry had Bolt Action Rifles, but most of the American Army had Semi Auto Rifles! I don't know much about Americans, but how could other sides compete with them in RO? Sure, Bolt Action Rifles are more accurate, but Semi Autos dominate in close and medium range, and since most of the American army had them, woudn't that be overwhelming? I also remember that Americans outnumbered Germans, because most of the German forces were in Russia. I know Americans had weaker tanks than Germans (Correct me if I am wrong), but how would Germans have a chance against Americans in infantry combat? Germans were better trained, but in RO, that does not matter, it depends on the player.


(I am NOT suggesting Americans in RO, but it would be cool if they did!)

 

[King Ragnar]

The americans dont have the STG tho

 

[Amarok]

If, if, if.... if my grandma had balls, then she would be my grandpa

 

[Sgt.Rock]

The americans dont have the STG tho

Even so, they had the BAR to match.

These would be counterparts:

M1 Garand = Mauser K98/ G41 / G43

Thompson .45/ m3 grease gun = Mp40/41

BAR = STG 44

M1919a6 = Mg42/43

M1 carbine = officer with mp40/41

1911A1 = Luger/ p38

M2 .50 cal on M3A1 halftrack = Mg34 on German halftrack

springfield 1903a3 with scope = Mauser/g43 with scope


So basically, Americans would definantly have the advantage with semi-autos (anyone who doesnt have an SMG, MG or Sniper would have a semi-auto), they would have a heavier calibre Sub-machingun, the BAR has a heavier round then the STG44 (but it is heavier to carry and 10 less rounds), The 1919 does have a slower rate of fire though, the m1 carbine might have an advantage in range, but has a much less Rate of fire, The 1911A1 fires a heavier round, and the M2 .50 cal has much greater armor penetration traits than the 8mm (in fact, that 50 .cal should just about tear through the german halftrack), and the germans would have a slight advantage with sniper rifles.

In general, I would think the Americans could put more rounds down range.

Also, semi-auto's being less accurate than bolts is sort of a misconception. For the most part they are because bolts have less moving parts, so they are tighter and more precise in function, but semi-autos of good quality can just about match. The Garand is a precision semi-auto, in fact its used at shooting competitions alot.

 

[angelangel]

The americans dont have the STG tho

The BAR should be able to counter that.

 

[USMC_Recruit]

The americans dont have the STG tho

The STG wasn't put into production soon enough or in enough numbers to really give the Germans enough of an advantage IMO. You really can't compare the German infantry weapon equivalents to the American infantry weapons because the two countries tactics were way different. The German squad relied on the machine gun more so, whereas the American squad relied on the the rifleman.


Sgt. Rock is correct about everything IMO. The Garand is a very accurate rifle, i've shot a few matches with my 1943 Springfield Armory M1 Garand (which hasn't had any gunsmithing to make it more accurate) and it shoots beautifully.

 

[Grottenolm]

Hmmm... I think we had that dispute already settled. As far as I recall the Americans won.

*SCNR*

 

[Arete]

Riflemen w/ garand would have an advantage over riflemen w/ k98's, yes.

But the BAR is far from a match for the STG, it's more like a crappy MG34 with a small mag. The BAR is not meant for shoulder fire, it weighs a lot and is generally unwieldy. It was meant as a fire base, being fired in supported positions, not as an assault rifle. It had about the same position in a squad as the M60 had later on, it _can_ be fired in regular standing/kneeling fighting postion, but it's not what it's meant for

 

[A-tree]

the bar in an lmg, not an assult rifle, should realy be competing with the MG34 for the squad support class.
The recoil on the garand should realy make its acurate ROF not much more than the bolts.

 

[[5.SS]Strother]

Grottenolm has a point

 

[USMC_Recruit]

Hmmm... I think we had that dispute already settled. As far as I recall the Americans won.

*SCNR*

We won the air war, yes, but a lot of people will agree that the Russians won the ground war (or the majority of the ground war). We helped to pull troops away from the Eastern Front.



@ A-tree, I agree with you about accurate ROF of the M1, but for supression and close quarters i would much rather have a semi then a bolt. That's where the real advatage is.

 

[Mormegil]

Umm, wouldn't that be just like theWestern Front? Except without the Commonwealth nations.

 

[Snayperskaya]

We won the air war, yes, but a lot of people will agree that the Russians won the ground war (or the majority of the ground war). We helped to pull troops away from the Eastern Front.



@ A-tree, I agree with you about accurate ROF of the M1, but for supression and close quarters i would much rather have a semi then a bolt. That's where the real advatage is.

There was a large part (75% or so I think) of the Luftwaffe on the Eastern fron was there not?

I think the Russians did a whole lot more for the war than most people realise.
The Germans threw everything at the Russians, who absorbed the punishment, then delt out their own.

Without the Russians I think we may all be speaking German today, well German, Japanese or Russian. Depending on how everything went after the UK and USA were defeated.

Big IF there though.

Please dont flame.

 

[Afterburner]

Without the Russians everyone would be speaking German, without the Americans everyone would be speaking German, and without the British everyone would be speaking German. Everyone did their fair share of the work, and everyone was essential to a victory.

Americans and Germans will be interesting to see(West front mods) but I fear that it will get very old very fast. In reality the German squad revolved around the MGs, where as the Americans revolved around a rifle group. This means different tactics. But usually in video games MGs tend to be relocated to support, and not as a core weapon. They are just plain too easy to kill to make them truly deadly. This means more then likely the Americans will have the advantage because of the Garand. With a Garand you could put out 3 rounds, accurately, for every German rifle round. In reality the German MGs basically countered this firepower, but that firepower is never represented correctly in game.

 

[BeserkWraithlor]

So you are saying German squads relied heavily around the MG, while Americans relied on mass numbers of Semi Auto Rifles? Well, thats why the MG42 was so popular and feared by allies.

 

[Afterburner]

So you are saying German squads relied heavily around the MG, while Americans relied on mass numbers of Semi Auto Rifles? Well, thats why the MG42 was so popular and feared by allies.

Basically that is exactly it. But when was the last time the sound of an MG42 going off made you and everyone around you hit the dirt. Or make everyone throw themselves behind a brickwall and not pop their head up for any reason. Seriously, MGs were easily capable of surpressing an entire squad out of fear, and until this is represented in a video game you will NEVER have a realistic WWII shooter.

 

[NYC]

If, if, if.... if my grandma had balls, then she would be my grandpa ^^LOL!!!!! -Amarok

It would be equal, i love getting the k98 and i do very good. Plus America just dominates, we whooped ass in WW2. I think they REALLY gotta add America, cause RO is the only realistic game i have and it makes the game feel real. But they have very equal stuff, so it wouldnt be bad.

 

[Afterburner]

Adding them to Red Orchesta itself isn't exactly an option, as the whole game is East Front, even the title. But there are some west front mods comeing out, along with various other mods. It would be intresting to see what Tripwire could do with a Western front in the next game, but I would rather they continue to focus on the East.

 

[Wolfstuka]

1919(.30) was out of date by the time of the war the only reason why the Americans didn't replace it was that they needed an Mg now. German MGs(34 and 42) are without a doubt superior to the .30 cal.

The Americans would have the advantage concerning main infantry rifles with their semi automatic Garand.

SMGs are about equal on either side.

The bar had no place in ww2 it was too heavy to be used as a rifle. The 20 round magazine was also too little to make it an effective light machine gun.

There was no American equal to the stg44 which would have given a significant advantage to the Germans were more made.

.50 cal was a fine machine gun packing a huge punch.

I know there are more weapons but that is my list for now. I would say the small arms are mostly equal with certain parts favoring the Germans or Americans more.

 

[Sgt.Rock]

At what levels were the BAR, m1919 and mg42 distributed?

I dont see the Mg42 at a squad level, but I do see it at a platoon level. Same goes for the m1919

But I dont see the BAR as a platoon level weapon, I see it as a squad level weapon, you know, like a Squad Automatic Weapon.


If its set up that way, one American platoon would have 3 BARS, a m1919, and an assortment of weapons, whereas a German platoon would have one mg42 and an assortment of weapons?


So really, what were weapon structures for squads and platoons?