Idea/s for KF2

[FluX]

So what you are asking for is to have the zeds have spasms so that they zig zag to their target instead of rushing straight at them?

I can see where you are going with this but you need to make it with more sense then they need something different. If you are starving, you would run straight at your target and eat it, no matter what gets in your way. It's just that sort of thing that the human brain does have. If the thirst of something is too strong, it takes over and forces you to get your "reward" out of it. That is what these do.

 

[mrsirr]

I think I see what you mean with them trying to outmanuever you and such. But the thing is that if they were in their right minds, they'd probably take a step back and ask eachother why they were walking around eating people. Clearly they don't have the minds of humans.

 

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Zig-zagging? That's the best you can come up with?

Right now crawlers just walk towards you and then jump at the exact same distance every time. Imagine if crawlers could walk on the walls and ceilings, and they randomly choose when to do so. They don't choose to run on the ceiling, for example, every time based on a specific thing you did. So you could have a group of 4 of them, or whatever, and two could be on the wall, one on the ceiling and one on the floor, or any number of randomly chosen combinations. Instead of having them jump only at the prescribed distance like they do now (they can still do that, just not every time exactly the same way), a few of them could decide to jump all the time, maybe at different angles, therefore making them harder to hit. Maybe they can tell when you are kiting and they hide from you and jump out in ambush at just the right time. Etc, etc.

Imagine if Husks used cover. They might choose to peek around a corner, exposing only their head and gun arm, they fire at you, then take cover around the corner, car, doorway etc. The power of the Husk gun is based on it's charge up time, so instead of using a full blast every time, upon sensing that there are several weakened players in your group, it might choose to fire 3 smaller shots in a volley at you guys. Etc, etc.

Imagine if Sirens intentionally hid themselves behind Bloats, making it hard to kill them from a distance, let alone hard to see them in the first place. Imagine if they hid behind things in ambush, or they intentionally grouped together to make a super killing mob. Etc, Etc.

Imagine if Fleshpounds could enrage Scrakes on their own and they'd do so intentionally, then go into a rage themselves? Imagine if Scrakes could dodge a certain amount of melee strikes, and/or the criteria (the amount of damage needed to rage them, or any other creative criteria) for raging them wasn't static. Clots hiding and working together to ambush kiting teams. Etc, etc.

The point is.. give the zeds multiple things that they can do so they aren't predictable like they are now. Each one has a set of tactics and they never use them based on the same exact criteria every time. Make them work together, using their combined set of differing tactics, to 'out think' and give the players a greater challenge. I just thought of these things in a few minutes, but if you spent a good amount of time on it you could have a better thought out, more comprehensive set of maneuvers and tactics that the zeds could use.

Use your imagination. Right now, all they do is walk straight towards you like a bunch of mindless zombies. The only unpredictable thing that happens in game right now are the enemy spawns. That's it. Are they former humans mutated and designed in a lab to be highly efficient, thinking killing machines... or are they mindless walk-forward-no-matter-what zombies? Yes, the zed's eat you when you die, but Horzine was experimenting on these people for military purposes, they aren't mindless starving zombies. It wouldn't be out of the realm of this game to give them more capabilities than walking in a straight line.

 

[mrsirr]

That's it. Are they former humans mutated and designed in a lab to be highly efficient, thinking killing machines... or are they mindless walk-forward-no-matter-what zombies? Yes, the zed's eat you when you die, but Horzine was experimenting on these people for military purposes, they aren't mindless starving zombies. It wouldn't be out of the realm of this game to give them more capabilities than walking in a straight line.

They are failed clones; they were intended for the military but they failed.
I like the idea of crawlers walking on walls/ceilings and husks having some variation in the amount they charge their shots.
But they aren't working together; they don't get it. It's not like they have some hatred of humanity "Destroy all humans :0"
The sirens for example; they aren't aware of what's going on around them, they just scream when they feel threatened, and they don't read this forum so they don't know what a pain in the *** they are.
They all just act on instincts.
The clot is a prime example also; is he a military specialist bred for destruction? No, he is a mentally compromised clone of some guy.

 

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

But they aren't working together; they don't get it. It's not like they have some hatred of humanity "Destroy all humans :0"
The sirens for example; they aren't aware of what's going on around them, they just scream when they feel threatened; They all just act on instincts.

How did you come to these conclusions? Is that written somewhere? Yes they are failed experiments, but does that automatically mean they don't have two brain cells to rub together? They're just dumb instinctual animals? Where did they get these so-called 'instincts' to act in the same exact way every single time? Clots being military specialist? The hell are you talking about?

I don't see how anyone could argue against the zeds having more abilities than walking forward in a straight line. If you don't agree with the examples I laid out, that's fine, those came off the top of my head in just a minutes worth of thinking.. the main point you should focus on is unpredictability of the zeds actions for the purpose of making the game deeper and more challenging, and in the end this keeps the game fresher for longer. It takes no time at all to learn exactly how the zeds are going to act based on what you do in game.. this makes the game go stale and become really easy very quickly. The only challenge at that point is the random spawns. If each zed type had a small catalog of actions it might take against the players, and those actions aren't triggered by the same input every time, then when you combine all the zeds on the playing field you have a massive amount of ways any given situation could play out.. totally different than now where every situation plays out exactly the same.

 

[mrsirr]

It is written in a few places actually. I think it's also mentioned in the manual if you have the solid copy. I do like the idea of some variety like I said. But what I'm saying is that they don't necessarily need to be smarter, because their lack of intelligence is most of the reason they are trying to kill these poor brits.
I mentioned the clots because you said "Are they former humans mutated and designed in a lab to be highly efficient, thinking killing machines. . ."
I was just pointing out that the clots specifically, like most of the zeds, are not the 'finished product'
As you can see without reading much plot material, they didn't do what the military had intended for them to do or they wouldn't be munching people in the streets.

More on topic, I don't really mind the idea, though I am concerned that adding a random variable into the game might frustrate people and make luck more of a factor, which I'm sure people would hate.
I'm not really trying to start an argument here because I'm not really against the idea; these are just some concerns.

 

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

If I'm coming across argumentative, that isn't my intention. It's just that when people take things you say and run off in some other direction with them, you need to dump a load of text down so they understand where you're coming from.

The intention was never to say that the zeds have higher military thinking/planning and that they're the 'finished product' of Horzines experiments. The whole point is to make the game a whole lot deeper and challenging by giving the zeds a set of different actions they can do that aren't triggered by the same actions on the part of the player every single time. The side effect of this being a much more engaging and longer lasting game. Think of the replayability if no two situations played out the same because the zeds can all do several different things instead of just one thing.. walking in a straight line.

And on the subject of luck.. is the current zed spawning not the most glaring example of luck there is? I wouldn't consider more than one ability for each zed to be a luck thing, it would be something that you'd have to learn to deal with over time with practice.. and learn you will, going by how this community dives into the code and numbers the way they do, going so far as to make testmaps (something I have never spent even one second on and I can do all of the 'tricks' everyone else can. I have 916 hours in the game, not the requisite 1000 hours needed for my opinion to be valid, but whatever). You'd be able to learn whatever new abilities they have and how to counter them, but it'd be an extra challenge because you'd have to be ready for whichever one of those abilities comes at you.

 

[mrsirr]

Well I know I'd definitely be in favor of mixing up the scrakes and fleshpounds a little bit to make the raging less predictable.
On a side note I seriously hate the way the spawn can spank you in this game.
But yeah, as long as it wasn't drasticly different I wouldn't mind some variety in behavior.
I'm probably just cautious because of this one thread awhile back.
The guy said something about bloats raging and scrakes cloaking or some wierd jazz.
Come to think of it though, as far as spawn goes, I wouldn't mind if the occasional gorefast fell out of the ceiling the way crawlers, stalkers do; but anything heavier would be abit odd for that in particular.
There are some neat ideas like allowing things besides clots to grab you, but that might upset the balance or something.

 

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Come to think of it though, as far as spawn goes, I wouldn't mind if the occasional gorefast fell out of the ceiling the way crawlers, stalkers do; but anything heavier would be abit odd for that in particular.

That really isn't an ability though, is it. That's just wonky spawning.

The guy said something about bloats raging and scrakes cloaking or some wierd jazz.

Dude, could you imagine an FP that could cloak? That would be intense! Or the Gorefast being able to parry a melee attack with his sword arm from time to time? Or even the FP with his metal arms being able to block beserker hits once in a while. Right now all he does is walk into your fire axe over and over again. Your own imagination is the limit. Again, these things wouldn't always happen in a predictable way based on the actions of the players every single time, like they do now, but at least they'd have that ability to vary what they do.

We can kick around specific additional ability ideas until the cows come home, but I'd rather leave that sort of thing up to the developer. The only reason I wrote down all those quick ideas for abilities earlier in the thread is because for some reason Flux assumed all I was talking about was making the zeds zig-zag. Cmon, think outside of the box. Relax with the Luddite-ish fear of expanding and improving the game. The point and the goal is unpredictability, depth, and re-playability.

So, to wrap this all up. I think this is more or less what Bug was getting at. The zeds are currently painfully one dimensional, which makes the game stale in short order, and the only thing that varies is how the enemies are going to spawn around you (if you're a camping team worth your salt, you're standing in the one place on the map where the enemies only come from your front, and then what the hell does how they spawn matter anyway). The game would be that much better off if the zeds did more than walk/run at you in a straight line, reacting to your actions in the same exact predictable way every time.

 

[mrsirr]

Oh yeah I'd be totally into blocking and such. And I think a cloaking FP would be a different zed altogether.
It's just that alot of stuff like that wouldn't necessarily work well with the game mechanics already in place.

Ahh buts nevermind I forgot this was about potential KF2.

 

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Ahh buts nevermind I forgot this was about potential KF2.

 

[Nova!]

I got lots of KF2 ideas

• Multi-perk weapons

This is the number one on my list of things KF2 needs. There are already tons of weapons that either could be re-tooled into becoming Multi-perk (Blowerthrower) or ones that are already pretty much there (Flare Revolver) in terms of functionality. However, there are also tons of weapons both in-game and in reality that have attachments to easily make them multi-perk. Bayonets, Detachable Scopes and lazer guides, you see what I'm getting at here hopefully. The M4/M203 is the best example of this in-game that I could use to get the meaning across.

• New Zeds

There are some interesting ones in the workshop that could be looked at, as examples.

• New AI functions of returning zeds

"You're trying that again?" ~ The Patriarch

• Maybe more perks?

I think the number of perks we have right now is fine and that they cover just about everything I can think of in terms of zeds, but you never know.

• Newer modes to give the game more replayability (even though it has lots right now)

You've got a good thing going with the Objective mode, TWI, and I can't really think of anything else that would fit in right now, but it's on the proverbial table.

• A higher amount of perk levels to make them more easily achieved

While I'm not complaining that you should level up after every zed kill, It did take me over 3 months of actual dedicated playing (around 3 hours a day) to reach the full benefits of Sharpie (Level 6) without farming. Plus, the gap between each level is a bit much

• More voice actors per chance?

I don't think this'd be too far-fetched, and would go hand in hand with new playable characters

• Maybe a new setting?

I don't really care where its set as long as the B-movie brit voice-acting is kept. It's too perfect, in the B-movie kinda way.

• the Return of Mr and Mrs. Foster, both regular and Steampunk digs

I love my Steampunk Mr. Foster skin too much to let it disappear. You can bring back DJ Skully as well as long as you bring his Steampunk digs with him.

• Improved UIs (Trader, loading screens, et cetera)

This is a given.

• A HUD feature for things like Semi-Auto/Automatic weapon settings

Currently the only notice regarding whether a weapon is set to automatic or semi-auto is the text that appears when you press the binded button. Why not have a little notice near the health or ammo that says whether its Auto or Semi?

• Special weapon skins for reaching the top level of a perk

As COD-y as it is, I think gold/camo/whatever you so choose skins exclusive to top-level perks would be pretty neat (fun fact: I was actually thinking along the lines of special skins for the M19 for Sharp, the Double-Barrel for the Support, M7 or M5 for Medic, Trenchgun for Firebug, Fire-axe for Zerk, and LAW for Demolitions, as an idea for regular KF, but it seems to be a better idea for KF2)

• Maybe a bit of customization of player skins?

Now I'm not talking crazy things like hats and matching glasses, but maybe the ability to choose a primary colour for the player's skin to feel a bit more unique?

• Different types of armour? Eh?

I heard a good idea of making sort of half-armour available for half the price or around 100 quid, why not widen the range? "Riot gear" armour that primarily protects against explosive damage? Maybe armour that prevents Non-zerks from being grabbed along with providing 75% of protection?

 

[Dub]

You know my ideas for KF2?

Another KF2.

*winks*

 

[Arblarg]

You know my ideas for KF2?

Another KF2.

*winks*

KF2 : Episode 2?

Or did you mean another KF.