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I want to try making a map

Coffee009

Active member
Feb 6, 2012
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Ohio
Title... I need a hobby lol. I have this idea for an objective/progression map cooking in my head for about a week now based off an old game design doc that I made but never finished; and theres no way in hell I'd be able to make a game on my own. Now that KF2 has an objective mode, I really wanna see if I can make this idea into its own map(s) with an arcing story, characters, and unique locations. I dont want to spoil the story because I think it would be the map's strongest point but I think what I got in mind is unique and fun. I also need to teach myself how to make maps but...

I need to know if my idea is doable in the first place:

1. Does there HAVE to be a trader inbetween waves? This honestly made me consider making my idea in KF1 because it seems like objective mode could have its own pacing vs KF2 which seems wave based. I want players to find their weapons in the first few waves since it would make more sense based on the setting (think of a dieselpunk WW2 bunker/lab) and I think it would be a fun way to mix up the core gameplay (I used to be a DM and i prefered if I had my players find their stuff or go to traders with limited inventories rather than just 'go to town and buy anything')

2. How big can a map be before the engine cant handle it? What I got in mind is comparable to a L4D campaign in length and I think splitting up the map into multiple seperate maps would kill some of the magic

3. Can zeds be pre placed or do they HAVE to be spawned in via waves? I was thinking inbetween main objectives the players need to get from area A to area B with zeds along the way.

4. Can music in KF2 work the way in KF1? (each wave and trader wave had its own dedicated song that would loop) I want to be able to control the tone and atmosphere of the map and as much as I love metal, it wouldn't fit the map

5. How hard would it be to make a map with its own trader voice and pod skins? I figure it can be done based on Steam Fortress with lockhart, I want something similiar with its own guide being the objective giver and trader voice

6. What is the wave max on Objective? I want 3-4 main areas with maybe 15ish 'waves'... I want to make a longer map where players start with tier 2 weapons and have more time with tier 3-5 weapons (I always wanted a quickstart mode in KF2 where players spawn with like 2000 dosh and get into the action right away rather than build up)

Any help is appreciated.
 

Delta69er

Active member
Sep 13, 2017
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If this is your first attempt with KF2 SDK I would say this sort of scope is extremely difficult.

1. Yes but it requires a custom gamemode - if you don't know how to program, know Object Oriented Programming or UnrealScript, I would ditch this idea. All current gamemodes require Traders. One possibility is just not to ever include Traders in your map but you will be stuck with a minute of nothing happening.

2. For map size refer to my post here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/forum/killing-floor-2/killing-floor-2-modifications/level-design-ac/2332818-first-time-making-map-some-question I would also look at the non-survival winners in terms of scope as these maps are the largest.

3. Yes, but doing so will most likely derank the map. You can toggle spawns manually as players progress however.

4. No

5. Skins, easy. Voice, hard. https://wiki.killingfloor2.com/index.php?title=Setting_WWise_Audio_Modding. There is currently no way to disable Trader voice on maps.

6. I dont know what the limit is, but you can go all the way to 15 and beyond.

The current objective is not as robust as you might think as well. I would read here for the current limitations: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/forum/killing-floor-2/killing-floor-2-modifications/level-design-ac/2332120-recommended-improvements-to-objective-systems
 
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Coffee009

Active member
Feb 6, 2012
399
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Ohio
Delta69er;n2333006 said:
If this is your first attempt with KF2 SDK I would say this sort of scope is extremely difficult.

Stuff
I appreciate your help! I figured it would be hard to do something on this scope but I won't learn if I don't push myself. If I do end up making maps, I want them to stand out in some way, shape, or form. I could definitely make this map within the limitations of the game, I just wanted to see how far I could push it.

How would my questions apply to the first game? Do you have experience of killing floor 1?
 

Delta69er

Active member
Sep 13, 2017
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Not sure about KF1, it might be a bit more free to objective mode, but mapping interface is significantly less user friendly and pretty dated.
 

Alex Milo

Member
Dec 21, 2010
79
5
8
I know this post is 2 months old but figured I'd pitch in anyway as I'm somewhat in the spot between being beginner and experienced level designer for KF2, so in case you haven't started yet, here's some tips.
First of all, the two biggest issues I encountered, I personally vastly underestimated the time it takes to detail an entire map, and secondly I underestimated how hard it is to make a map layout that works well with the zeds. Basically I should've play-tested way more, instead I spend all the time detailing some areas, left some areas boring as I didn't have patience to finish them, and the detailed areas ended up not really working that well gameplay wise because I didn't test the layout properly. So the map ended up being extremely hard in some areas and way too easy in others. I should've waited with all the detailing before the layout was better. Here's a link to the map I'm referring to: https://bit.ly/2LeqtaA
Second of all, if I were you I would start off making a smaller arena style as your first map, just to understand the game mechanics and gameplay flow, that way it will be much more manageable for you with detailing as well, and learning how to use the SDK properly. Maybe throw in a little Kismet event as well to make the map more interesting, people said my first map became kinda boring for 10 waves as nothing except lighting changed.
Currently I'm working on/off on 5 different maps, but lately I'm working more on a map style similar to Nightmare, making a bunch of arenas that are interconnected, it is way more a manageable imo than a full "normal" map.
 
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Coffee009

Active member
Feb 6, 2012
399
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28
Ohio
I thought about making a simpler map called "1918" or something and have it be within a network of claustrophobic trenches and an open no mans land with many craters, maybe with buyable doors like in nazi zombies so players can slowly open the map up as they play.
 

Alex Milo

Member
Dec 21, 2010
79
5
8
Coffee009;n2334366 said:
I thought about making a simpler map called "1918" or something and have it be within a network of claustrophobic trenches and an open no mans land with many craters, maybe with buyable doors like in nazi zombies so players can slowly open the map up as they play.
Then you gotta familiarize yourself with the terrain tool (I'm yet to do so). And be careful with going too claustrophobic, it generally doesn't work that well with KF2 as you normally need escape routes. I haven't made doors you can purchase before but it should be possible, for example in Tragic Kingdom you can buy into the mini games by dropping dosh into a container. Maybe you can open that map in the SDK and figure out how that works and replicate it.
 

Coffee009

Active member
Feb 6, 2012
399
40
28
Ohio
Yeah I got alot of learning to do, I think I can make a fun map, I got 1k hours in the game. For buyable doors I think I'd just copy the one on Monster Ball and go from there.