I for one, do not want a nerfed avatar.

[DeuZerre]

It's not about the game being realistic. It's about the game feeling like a battlefield (not talking about the series).

If you can turn your back on a head-sized target 100m away, turn around aim, shoot and hit it, good for you, the army will probably welcome you.

I certainly can't. My eyesight isn't perfect, and my motor skills aren't the best, but I can hit a regular target at a good range, while rested. When I go and have a round of forest paintball (not a good example, I know), I certainly run around, and get hit (too bad). But when I shoot at something from cover, even if I know where the shots are coming from, and my gun is clean, I can't hit while poping out my head in one second. I random spray a bit, pop out, hide as shots zoom past, po out, quick aim, snap a few shots as accurately as I can, sometimes hitting, sometimes not, then hide again if I haven't been shot.

But there are also many shots zooming around, even from good players, that just can't hit you, because spotting someone in cammo in the middle of this mess of paintballs splashing the trees next to you, the voices of friends shouting or raging because they got hit, and the overall tension, stress, fatigue.

And there is no recoil (also less accurate).


I made a comparison with paintball because it's closer to a videogame. Airsoft players, for a bit more realism, know that with the best gun, they will probably not hit, especially when shot at. I can't imagine with shells falling, giblets raining, smoke, and lack of food, that your average conscript could do anything remotely close to RO2. Only great veterans might, and those would be close to LVL0.

No bullets flying because you missed the shot, because you basically can't.
No real battle stress, you're all comfy in you sofa/chair.
No real distraction from your goal, because of low ambient volume.

RO isn't realistic, but it feels authentic, even if it is a pain to miss the guy you can clearly see. Because you are playing an average joe, not yourself.

 

[SparePoerisija]

Suppression and the speed of bringing guns up needs tweaking, yes. But sway and zoom? No. They're perfect. Sway needs to be increased when under fire/tired but rested and full stamina? It's perfect. Just played butovo and had trouble hitting people 200 meters away with the rifle, even if they weren't moving (in cover of course).

 

[Boboda]

Dude.. we just want a more realistic game mode. You can still play your little heart out on the arcade MW esque RO2 style. No one is saying you can't still play on those servers.

RO Classic isn't going to be more realistic, it's just going to bring back the disabilities RO vets are so proud of being able to cope with. Ironically, they can't seem to adapt to RO2.

Weapon unlocks are an issue when half of the server is using equipment that couldn't be fielded in such great numbers. However, the class improvements ARE NOT AS BAD. Although they would give the player a slight advantage, what about the players who are just naturally terrible or those who have less than fortunate pings? They will always have this handicap and will still over come it, with class improvements everyone has the opportunity to gain them.




Sincerely, someone with over 500 hours in RO:OST and 400 in RO2

 

[wake_up]

No bullets flying because you missed the shot, because you basically can't.
No real battle stress, you're all comfy in you sofa/chair.
No real distraction from your goal, because of low ambient volume.

And bullets that impacts near you, are more scaring that this one shoot
that instantly kills you. You cant panic, when you die by the first bullet.
At RO1, this feeling was very good - you could get killed by one shot,
by a relative accurate weapon, but not every shot from everyboday at
all distances hit and killed you. I liked this feeling and the firefights.

 

[Genocider]

The thing with that though, is I have had those moments with RO2 where bullets would be flying around me but not kill me... Thing is though, that the sound wasn't the same as RO1. I think if the sound was improved you'd be able to get the same feeling you had in RO1. However I do agree the weapons do need some tweaking when low on stamina or injured (Arm shots primarily). Either way I miss the loud crack I heard when a bullet flew over my head. I tried playing RO1 with a few friends yesterday for nostalgia's sake but sadly I could only find a 24/7 danzig and a 24/7 arad server with actual people...

 

[RedFlagWaver]

I went to the shooting range today. It was -20

 

[DiedTrying]

Suppression and the speed of bringing guns up needs tweaking, yes. But sway and zoom? No. They're perfect. Sway needs to be increased when under fire/tired but rested and full stamina? It's perfect. Just played butovo and had trouble hitting people 200 meters away with the rifle, even if they weren't moving (in cover of course).

except that depending on your characters level, you can get up to 4 seconds of ZERO sway allowing you to point and click where you want your bullet to go.

Discovered this during the instant max level glitches after the game came out.

 

[TravisT]

I'm at level 86 I get 2 seconds.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

Yes but this is not a change in gameplay mechanics, this is simply a different kind of map. The community can take care of this by itself. And trust me having been around since CA I know what you're referring to :IS2:

It's interesting looking at the common opinion of RO1 Vets vs ROCA Vets....

I'm an old ROCA Vet and hold pretty much the same view as yourself.

But in saying that, I don't see a big problem with having an additional RO Classic Game Mode.

I'll try it, I may like it.... I doubt it since most of the aspects of RO1 Gameplay didn't mesh with what I liked in ROCA, but I'll try it.

It might be pretty good.... those who want this game mode will start playing more.

And in regards to dividing the community further, that is one way to look at it.... Some worry it will reduce the number of available servers for them to choose from if they don't like the classic mode & create more problems than it will solve.

Though the other way to look at it (The way I look at it) is this.....

..... It's another game mode for variety, which will attract more players than what the current two game modes are attracting.

On top of that, yes there is the chance servers running the game modes you like may reduce in choice..... but it can go the other way, in that if more players come back to RO2 because of this additional RO Classic Game mode..... AND with the MP Campaign coming shortly too..... more players means the requirement of more servers, which ends up giving people more options.

It's not like this game mode will make things any worse than they are now.... ie: it couldn't hurt.

I'm happy with how RO2 is currently, and am just waiting for additional content to be added for once..... but I'm not going to pull out my picket sign and start protesting against RO Classic.

I can acknowledge that there is a considerable amount of people who do want an RO Classic Game mode, and while I'll voice my own likes and dislikes often (Regardless of the popular opinion in the community), I can accept and support the changes/views of the decent % of the community who want something else.

And so long as I don't see any major impact on the things I enjoy in the game, I can not protest against such proposals.

Back when I made a huge stink over RO Classic elements coming into RO2, the idea was to toss them directly into the "Realism" game mode, and I was just as upset and against the idea as you are, and I continually said in the past that I can support such changes, so long as they remained in a separate game mode from the existing ones....

.... I made such a suggestion back on the 24th of October when Cyper and I were butting heads over this idea.

 

[The_Cook]

Get a job, host your own server, put on the mode you like. Sit butthurt and alone in your new server set on nub mode cause no one wants to play nub mode. Profit?

 

[SparePoerisija]

And bullets that impacts near you, are more scaring that this one shoot
that instantly kills you. You cant panic, when you die by the first bullet.
At RO1, this feeling was very good - you could get killed by one shot,
by a relative accurate weapon, but not every shot from everyboday at
all distances hit and killed you. I liked this feeling and the firefights.

I didn't like the feeling that I'm shooting a full-lenght rifle bullet from a full-lenght rifle that is rested and still missing shots at 100 meters.

Or the feeling I see bunch of germans 45 meters away and I just KNOW I can't do anything about them because I have a PPSH. In reality they'd be mowed down in seconds, in OST? No, you'll be lucky to hit one or two bullets that probably just wound them and they'll heal themselves with magic nanobots after being wounded for 4 seconds.

It all depends on what kind of historical accuracy you want.

 

[RedFlagWaver]

45 meters, with a worn and battered gun, firing a pistol cartridge, at moving targets, in the freezing cold.

Even without taking recoil and follow-up shots into consideration, this is not an easy shot to make. You might be able to take the first one by surprise, but you'd have to be one hell of a gunman to "mow them down" under such conditions.

 

[Hicks]

It's interesting looking at the common opinion of RO1 Vets vs ROCA Vets....

I'm an old ROCA Vet and hold pretty much the same view as yourself.

But in saying that, I don't see a big problem with having an additional RO Classic Game Mode.

I'll try it, I may like it.... I doubt it since most of the aspects of RO1 Gameplay didn't mesh with what I liked in ROCA, but I'll try it.

It might be pretty good.... those who want this game mode will start playing more.

I don't know about you, but what I liked more about CA was all related to ambiance. I remember the game having louder gunfire sounds, footsteps and better maps overall. Everything felt deadlier. Guns would shoot where you were aiming and we didn't have most of the unrealistic limitations Ostfront had... Even though the mod was inferior technically speaking.

I find HOS brought back most of the things I liked about the mod. I hope you are right about RO-Classic bringing more people to the game. Infact I hope I've been wrong all along. I really dont want to see this game die out.

 

[HellsJanitor]

I don't know about you, but what I liked more about CA was all related to ambiance. I remember the game having louder gunfire sounds, footsteps and better maps overall. Everything felt deadlier. Guns would shoot where you were aiming and we didn't have most of the unrealistic limitations Ostfront had... Even though the mod was inferior technically speaking.

I find HOS brought back most of the things I liked about the mod. I hope you are right about RO-Classic bringing more people to the game. Infact I hope I've been wrong all along. I really dont want to see this game die out.

Like I said, people didn't leave because of the gameplay. It's because it didn't work at the launch and everyone either gave up or asked for a refund.

 

[Golf33]

I don't know about this difference between ROO and ROCA.

I greatly enjoyed ROCA, and ROO, but I find playing HOS a bit of a chore. I'm hoping that some tweaks in Classic mode will fix it up a bit and make it fun again.

RedFlagWaver gets the problem with reduced sway. The current level 0 sway is about right for prone supported under range conditions, provided you don't simply use the 'controlled breathing' to instantly cancel it out. Then it becomes some sort of SASR super soldier aiming ability. Once you get to high level the weapons are far easier to employ than in real-life even under range conditions, which are very different from the conditions in the game.

I do wonder how much time the soldiers in Stalingrad spent at the firing range immediately leading up to the battle. I'm betting the answer is they didn't spend any...

 

[SparePoerisija]

45 meters, with a worn and battered gun, firing a pistol cartridge, at moving targets, in the freezing cold.

Even without taking recoil and follow-up shots into consideration, this is not an easy shot to make. You might be able to take the first one by surprise, but you'd have to be one hell of a gunman to "mow them down" under such conditions.

45 meters away, they're out in the open and not moving. Conditions are perfect, it's a warm summer day and the sun is in their eyes.

Same story. Games sadly don't simulate winter conditions.

 

[RedFlagWaver]

You do notice that the game is about one of those wars in which soldiers were - in the part of it depicted in the game, anyways - in a pretty damned miserable state, under rather horrible conditions all the way, no matter which side they fought for?

The game would model weather and sanitary conditions as well as the supply situation fairly well simply by making the soldiers handle like malnourished, exhausted, sick, shell-shocked wrecks. Not bloody robots.

 

[The Commissar]

It's like a (slightly trollish) civil war on these forums; whether you want to rework the game, or keep it as is.
You can't say your opinion without someone lashing at you or degrading your rep.
To be honest, I think the newer members should give the veterans some respect, but I guess that's not how the internet works...

 

[RedFlagWaver]

It's completely bonkers. Like discussing Israel VS Palestine on politicsforum.org; utterly impossible to get a reasonable, non-emotional answer.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

I don't know about you, but what I liked more about CA was all related to ambiance. I remember the game having louder gunfire sounds, footsteps and better maps overall. Everything felt deadlier. Guns would shoot where you were aiming and we didn't have most of the unrealistic limitations Ostfront had... Even though the mod was inferior technically speaking.

Agreed.... the level of detail on all the maps, the background sounds, being able to hear people around you based on footsteps, it was the imerssion and attention to detail of ROCA which sucked me in, especially the maps.

Karlovka was probably the best designed map for me, as it incorporated everything that ROCA had to offer all in one map. Rostov, Jucha, Donnets and other maps had so much detail in them that they made most Ostfront maps look barren & dated.

There were still some well designed Ostfront-only maps, while the other well designed Ostfront maps were ports from the mod.

The weapons were more accurate and felt a bit more fluid and real compared to Ostfront.

Osfront certainly improved on a number of elements, such as not having to pick up every single round or clip for a rifle dropped (just had to pick up a sack of ammo), but there were a number of things that put me off.

Besides the sway/recoil and lack of stamina for your player, the tank turret being aimed by keyboard instead of the mouse was clunky, inaccurate and slow.

I find HOS brought back most of the things I liked about the mod. I hope you are right about RO-Classic bringing more people to the game. Infact I hope I've been wrong all along. I really dont want to see this game die out.

Agreed, I love RO2 compared to RO1, simply because many of the things that brought me into RO via the mod, were brought back.

The pace of the game is fast and brutal like it used to be, where Ostfront seemed to focus more on how long you can wait in spawn, then run halfway across a huge map that has most of the fighting confined to 10% of the map..... plus having worse accuracy and exaggerated recoil, it just didn't do it for me like the mod did.