Hubes Breakout Beta 1

[Mike_Nomad]

I must say people machines must be poor compared to the one australians have or perhaps the servers we use are better as I personally have seen no lag or had many complaints when installed on our server but it be something that I will work on to improve for you in version 2.

I have a AMD 3500+ with 7800GTX card no means a super computer with what is available these days.

Each RGN RO Server has its OWN machine (Note the IP addresses and ports) Each machine is an Intel Core DUO 3Ghz machine/1066FSB with 2GB DDR2 533 RAM, 400 GB SATA2 WD HDD w/16mb cache, Antec Tru 550w PS... Hardly machines to frown upon..\\ The player machines we have here (4) are the same but are equipped with SLI nVidia 7900 cards by MSI on MSI motherboards.

More tanks hmmm I like to know what the community thinks is they want, I could play an extra tank either side, but these maps are made for team tanking and team work, and as you know Mike I make no apologies for that hehehe, but if I can see the value in an extra tank either side that can be achieve. Although it concerns me on the lack of infantry then. If we had 64 servers now that would be fantastic hehehe and I add heaps more tanks <smile>

True, that's your call and you have every right but to see Luther hollering about "Team Tanking" on a FULL 32 player server.... in map with only three tanks will leave more than a few tankers "twiddling their thumbs". I pointed this factoid out along with the anomolies in the map, (laggy spots & holes) only to be blown off. That's is no way to conduct a beta. As I said, henceforth, it'll only be "happy - happy - joy - joy". There is no point in illustrating problems found, if its going generate sarcastic criticism of our players and servers and cause arguments.

 

[EvilHobo]

Well just a handful of comments:

My FPS was decent on the map, generally around 50-70FPS. However, that may or may not be a good thing considering I get 40FPS out in the streets of Leningrad.

I like the trenches. However, it seems like it will be the epitome of "uphill battle" there. But, since I haven't played it with people I can't comment further.

Keep the amount of tanks that you currently have. To encourage teamwork, moderation is needed. By having less tanks you make each tank more valuable, while allowing the map to have a combined arms edge by having infantry with tank support, moreso than tanks with infantry support (which is what it seems Mike would prefer judging by his posts).

In regard to the spawns, for the sake of professionalism I encourage you to move toward the timed spawn system. That way, you can have players spawn there for a certain amount of time whereas the way I see it now, the moment the Axis makes the cap the Russians will move back, yes? If that is indeed the case, what should happen if an Axis member joins quick and makes the cap before any Russians spawn? Then they'll still be going that long walk to the cap, and they won't have that sense of "why am I spawning back here" if they came in before the cap was even witnessed by them.

 

[Slyk]

1. If you are getting too many complaints of tankers without tanks, reduce the number of tankers. I personally feel 1.5 to 2.0 tankers per vehicle is more appropriate as you cannot tell people how to play your map. Also, a large number of people prefer to tank alone, I do too when I don't know anyone on the server...it is much easier to take the MG than try to gun with someone else driving and if I do try to help another guy, I would much rather drive.

2. Like Hobo said, is your objective tanks with infantry or infantry with tanks. That is your decision point for how you handle the loadouts. Two tanks? 4 roles. 3 tanks, 5 or 6 roles as my suggestion. The flip side is that tankers who are without rides still have the option to switch to infantry roles and still participate.

3. Timed spawns. I forget which stock maps do this, but the tutorial is fine once you figure it out. You must do a full compile to get the set up to work properly. I used this method in 'Berezina' and 'TractorWorks' so if you can sort out which map they are in the cache or download it directly, you can locate the actors controlling things, they are placed near the spawn locations they affect.

4.

Well as you can see above the ZIS-3 76.2 mm was just as shocking, unless your aiming at doing the 100mm or are making then non historical penetrations.

But I always welcome new models for the community guys you do a top job keep it up.

The 76 would be more in line with the T34/76 cannon with more velocity. Everything we are doing is being worked out with real world numbers and then compared against how TWI balanced the weapons. The velocity of most guns is scaled way back, otherwise your rounds of the Tiger etc would be on target before you heard the shot. Regardless of what we release (as with maps) people will find something to whine and b*tch about and at some point there will be mutators to change the gun characteristics. Either way, the guns will each offer the mapper more options. If you are happy with the 45s, great but just wanted you to know that the 76s are soon available with a pak40 and DarkestHour will have their pak43 release in the future as well.

 

[ViViD]

hahaha I think you guys forget or maybe you never played it kuzernki (first map i made) had one of the first timed spawns for the custom maps. I was having a tongue in cheek jesture when i said I think i could manage it <smile>

I will change it to that it seem more people like it that way, personally myself I prefer the cap way but each to there own and I know when i am outnumbered hehehe.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

There are screenshots and details in our forum ...

 

[Luther]

Our main goal is an infantry attack with some Tank support. Later down the track and people wish for more tanks we could adopt what Vivid did with Narva and Muddy Tigers. Anyho download the map Slyk, would like to hear your opinion on it.

Regards Luther

 

[2fisted]

We tried this map sun & loved it! The large amount of AT guns is a treat, & the AB mutator was good too.
One thing I noticed tho was our pz made it into the Allied spawn near the pillbox area... the machine gunner got a lil "carried away".

Great map! look forward to the next ver.

 

[Slyk]

"Large number of AT guns"? Just a word of caution: There is an inherent limit on the number that can be used without ill effect. This will be apparent in the final ROGuns code. It is a UT/RO limit, not something we created. Think on scale of 10-12 guns, TOTAL factory locations for both teams (pak40 soon as well). That limit may increase, but not significantly unless TWI has a code fix which we are not counting on.

I will look it over. Glad to offer some feedback here.

 

[Dheepan]

First Impressions,

FPS is fine for me and I run a crap computer.

I think you need to redo the lighting, it looks pretty bad when you see the enemy tanks and halftracks in the fog-o-war.

Also the fencing by the allies spawn is a bit annoying really don't want to walk all around it.

 

[ViViD]

Dheepan a little tip mate run at the fences and you vault over them.

Those tanks and halftracks must be on the border of where it mists out I think this is engine limitation, not sure there is a lot I can do here. but will try and see what I can do.

Lighting is on the list, needs to be a little darker has been the request

2fisted: thanks for that will add it to the list.

Slyk: Thanks for the tip didn't know that the gun factories are random and spawn based and are single at positions so when they blow that would cut down the numbers

I must be on your border as so far works fine with nothing out of the ordinary.

Tanker twidling their thumbs only happens if people are soloing and not much I can do for that, )on australian servers we encourage team tanking and look down on soloing), this will always happen unless you make one tank for each person something I am not a fan of. There is 2 crewman spots for each tank, so the multitude of people would consist of 3 people all up if people were soloing. I say if everyone want to tank Muddy Tigers is a good map. <smile> Combined Arms is not just about heaps of tank, it means a combination of Halftracks, tanks and infantry. The ratios are normally 1 tank for every platoon, 3 HT/carrriers for every platoon. This is considered combined arms.

 

[Reservoir Dog]

Quick question.....

Quick question.....

Amizaur for intergrating his Armoured Beasts Mod into the map

Quick question. I thought the Armored Beasts mutator ran on top of custom maps on the server. I have seen it work on my map fine with no coding integrated into the map. What was "integrated" into the map to require this mutator? Is this a way to say that the map was "balanced" for the mutator and should be played with it? Just curious and was wondering if there is any other advantage a mapper can include in their map to enhance it with AB mut.

Reservoir Dog

 

[tochiri]

Hi.
As for me, several times played this map.

My thought

A favorite point
-Looks of a church is nice.
-Pleasure with shooting 45mm.

A point to want you to improve
-Looks of a trench is nice, However, it had better be slightly small.
-About a farmhouse, I may be better when you put a windmill, tractor, dead cow, hut, wood around a house.
-A problem of FPS.

Even if you ignore this because this is my thought, there is not a problem.
Sorry bad english.

 

[Slyk]

Slyk: Thanks for the tip didn't know that the gun factories are random and spawn based and are single at positions so when they blow that would cut down the numbers

No. I mean 10-12 TOTAL, at the moment. We are looking at a sub-script thing that would allow 12 guns per team, 24 total. EACH factory will count as '1' and will need a unique 'tag/name'. More will be released as we know for sure and details will follow with release. For now plot out about 12 total locations at your first choice and then see what happens.

 

[ViViD]

Quick question. I thought the Armored Beasts mutator ran on top of custom maps on the server. I have seen it work on my map fine with no coding integrated into the map. What was "integrated" into the map to require this mutator? Is this a way to say that the map was "balanced" for the mutator and should be played with it? Just curious and was wondering if there is any other advantage a mapper can include in their map to enhance it with AB mut.

Reservoir Dog

A lot of servers don't want to run the mutator full time, I will only allow my map played by this mutator, so we have vehicle factories that call the mutator to work without needing it to run full time on the server.

It is balanced with the mutator otherwise PIVH against defending T34-85 or 76 is just silly, as all they have to do is get a good angle and can never be removed, the mutator alllow front turret penetrations witht he turret is facing its opponent this is a major bonus.

Also the angle armour is only adding +30 protection not +300 percent which is ridiculas.

Well I am hoping amizaur fines a way to pass how long a tank stays alive and buring in the factory ares and not just a global default, also I am hoping he allows mappers to change ammo loadouts.

 

[ViViD]

Hi.
As for me, several times played this map.

My thought

A favorite point
-Looks of a church is nice.
-Pleasure with shooting 45mm.

A point to want you to improve
-Looks of a trench is nice, However, it had better be slightly small.
-About a farmhouse, I may be better when you put a windmill, tractor, dead cow, hut, wood around a house.
-A problem of FPS.

Even if you ignore this because this is my thought, there is not a problem.
Sorry bad english.

Trench slightly small ( do you mean narrow ) this is not possible due to the fact it is a very large map and they are the terrain triangle values.

Working on the FPS, but if you want us to add more around the farmhouse area that will only increase the FPS, this is about fine balance. But thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Luther]

If we made the trench on a angle it would be 50% smaller..... but in creation of the map we didn't realise this till all the surrounding terrain was built. But im happy with the size, a real tank trap .

 

[Reservoir Dog]

A lot of servers don't want to run the mutator full time, I will only allow my map played by this mutator, so we have vehicle factories that call the mutator to work without needing it to run full time on the server.

Innovative.

RD

 

[DevilDog (Teufelhund)]

I think the AHZ boys AT Gun is not historically accurate as far as penetration which is not covered under the AB mod yet.

ok, that's a fairly general statement. Could you explain exactly why it is not correct?

 

[ViViD]

Yeah sure, I can give my thoughts and Slyk who has been visiting here can correct me if I am wrong.

The historical penetration for a 45mm is 70mm on 0 degrees at 100 metres or there abouts.

The PIVH has 82mm on the front hull at 10-15 (I forget) degrees so theorically the 45mm could not penetrate the front hull even under 100 metres. But the AHZ 45mm gun was not built historically it was built with gameplay in mind for tractorworks and Berezina.

The thing where it could said to be historic if you use the AP tungsten rounds this give you a penetration of 106mm at 0 degrees at 100m, but the problem is each crew was only given two tungsten rounds for each gun per major engagement (a major engagement could last a month). You can view this on reading russian personal memiors on battlefields.ru. These rounds were treated like bars of gold as they were so rare.

So you could pentrate the front of a PIVH with a 45mm with these but you only ever had two, which is not the majority of the shells. Therefore the 45mm in the way it is not modeled now is not historically accurate, and should actual be the standard AP round.

 

[Slyk]

The 45mm was not configured for gameplay. Teufel can explain his logic but it was based off of real-world numbers extrapolated by comparison to RO stock numbers. I think the hard facts are that the real-world physics and characteristics you want to incorporate are great but not suited to the UT engine as it cannot fully replicate nor calculate what needs to be done to truly represent reality. You may get close, but the fact is that tanks still take a percentage damage for every round fired. Regardless of deflection or penetration. Until a game can render individually sensitive components and push a lot more computations, you can't hope to reach real-world figures. You still end up trying to "simulate" reality.

If the 45mm numbers are way off and someone can produce more accurate numbers, we have always been open to reworking them. At this point, however, it is more or less out of our hands. The ultimate problem is that any 'realism' mode still turns out to be one persons or one mod teams version of 'realism' and will always have arguments for/against it. People just have to find what they are ok with and play it or not.