How to better implement 'lockdown'

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smokeythebear

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
2,298
633
0
31
Sheppards house
I think it's a good idea to reward defenders for holding the initial objectives. Currently on more then a few maps reinforcements will drain faster if continue trying to hold the first few objectives, making gameplay centered around them kind of awkward (e.g. as attackers should we ignore the obj and spawncamp? as defenders do we just fall back at the start?)

If I understand how 'lockdown' currently works, it's not a good solution. While it might work on some maps, any map where reinforcements are an issue it will be pointless. For the defenders it will be 'do or die'. If they commit to an objective they will certainly lose rienforcements much faster, most of the time they will be better off holding back as objectives change hands too many times to guarantee a win.

Another way lockdown could work is this; each objective still has a timer for when lockdown starts (which is removed when held by the attackers). When the timer hits zero the timer ticks down at 1.5-2x faster (or the time on the clock is halved to make things easier to follow) and tickets of the opposing side are lost at a higher rate. These functions could be tweaked per objective so mappers could decide what the most important objectives are.

This would make every objective worth holding for the defenders while not making the whole round rest on every objective.
 

Zetsumei

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
12,459
1,433
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Falmouth UK
what lockdown could mean so far seems to be one of 2 options.

1 every cap got a timer + a map timer:

Every individual capzone got a timer if an individual cap timer runs out the defenders win, the attackers win if they cap all objectives before the map timer runs out

2 every cap got a timer with no map timer:

Every individual capzone got a timer if an individual cap timer runs out the defenders win, the attackers win if they cap all the objectives before the cap timers run out.

------------------------------------------------------------------

The last system could actually work nicely as in. You manage to cap capzone A within the last 5 seconds then you have a completely fresh time amount again for capzone B. So if you managed to cap the first capzone you always have the same amount of time to capture the next capzone.
 
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BlackLabel

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 9, 2007
3,139
1,063
0
Churmany
Imo it all depends on the maps/capzone layout. If you have diverse capzones from the get go it might be intresting.
 

Zetsumei

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
12,459
1,433
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Falmouth UK
If all capzones happen in a lineair fashion ala koningsplatz, basovka, etc.

Then i seriously won't be playing RO:HOS, as that is my biggest fear. Inability to decide how you cap how you play and how to do things, rather than that beint tunneled to get high action rather than think about how and what to cap and defend.

What i always loved in old maps was at the beginning you often had 2 capzones you could cap either far left or far right of the map, so you needed to think how to defend or attack. It was that tactical part that made me fall in love with ro.
 
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BlackLabel

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 9, 2007
3,139
1,063
0
Churmany
Thats exactly why i like the DH maps from Sepp. Nonlinear and you can outflank and concentrate on a paralel object. Way more fun than the linear stuff.
 
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[TW]Ramm-Jaeger

Tripwire Interactive President
Oct 11, 2005
1,887
3,113
0
www.redorchestragame.com
You'll probably need to play with Lockdown before you'll fully understand it. And honestly its probably a bit silly to decide that it needs a better implementation before you actually play with it :)

Regarding linear VS non-linear, I find it borderline hilarious that people take a look at one map and assume that EVERY map is like that. This is like looking at Arad and assuming every map on RO:Ost was a wide open tank map, or looking at Danzig and assuming every map was CQB.

Many of you guys seem to only think about the hardcore veterans and what will make them happy. There must be a balance in the game. Linear maps in particular are very easy for new players to jump in and understand how to play while they learn the gameplay mechanics of RO (no crosshair, free-aim, realistic damage, etc). These gameplay mechanics can be very daunting, and particularly frustrating if they can't figure out where to go and what to do. So we give players some maps where they can just run out of there spawn, run forward, find enemies, and get into the action easily. Then other maps are non-linear and work well for the more advanced players. But you MUST have a balance, otherwise you're fanbase gets small and you wither and die.
 

iTRemeN

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 3, 2009
38
0
0
Somewhere close
what lockdown seems to mean so far with 2 options.

1 every cap got a timer + a map timer:

Every individual capzone got a timer if an individual cap timer runs out the defenders win, the attackers win if they cap all objectives before the map timer runs out.

This I think. If I understood the video right.
 

LemoN

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 26, 2006
6,295
2,346
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Prussotroll's Bridge
You'll probably need to play with Lockdown before you'll fully understand it. And honestly its probably a bit silly to decide that it needs a better implementation before you actually play with it :)

Regarding linear VS non-linear, I find it borderline hilarious that people take a look at one map and assume that EVERY map is like that. This is like looking at Arad and assuming every map on RO:Ost was a wide open tank map, or looking at Danzig and assuming every map was CQB.

Many of you guys seem to only think about the hardcore veterans and what will make them happy. There must be a balance in the game. Linear maps in particular are very easy for new players to jump in and understand how to play while they learn the gameplay mechanics of RO (no crosshair, free-aim, realistic damage, etc). These gameplay mechanics can be very daunting, and particularly frustrating if they can't figure out where to go and what to do. So we give players some maps where they can just run out of there spawn, run forward, find enemies, and get into the action easily. Then other maps are non-linear and work well for the more advanced players. But you MUST have a balance, otherwise you're fanbase gets small and you wither and die.


so wait... you are doing 2 kinds of maps
dumbed down, walk out the spawn and be in action types, and normal maps?
how is that supposed to work?

basically you cut BOTH different types of players down to HALF the maps
seriously TW, i think you are thinking too hard into that area
all RO:Ost would have needed was some way of GOOD training to get new players into the game MECHANICS and not how a map plays

and regarding the fancy icons and hints all around the game you have to remember that even in a community like cod, 3/4 of the ppl HATED those

i still remember the uproar when cod2 was released with fancy indicotors for literally every single ****ty thing you could think of and the uproar in the IW (yes not some other community, the IW community itself) they created

basically the only players that liked the icons were the extreme casual players, and i honestly DO NOT think that any of those guys would even look at HoS
 

Lucan946

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 12, 2009
636
84
0
what lockdown could mean so far seems to be one of 2 options.

1 every cap got a timer + a map timer:

Every individual capzone got a timer if an individual cap timer runs out the defenders win, the attackers win if they cap all objectives before the map timer runs out

2 every cap got a timer with no map timer:

Every individual capzone got a timer if an individual cap timer runs out the defenders win, the attackers win if they cap all the objectives before the cap timers run out.

------------------------------------------------------------------

The last system could actually work nicely as in. You manage to cap capzone A within the last 5 seconds then you have a completely fresh time amount again for capzone B. So if you managed to cap the first capzone you always have the same amount of time to capture the next capzone.

I think it's 1. That was the impression I got from the videos.

so wait... you are doing 2 kinds of maps
dumbed down, walk out the spawn and be in action types, and normal maps?
how is that supposed to work?

basically you cut BOTH different types of players down to HALF the maps
seriously TW, i think you are thinking too hard into that area
all RO:Ost would have needed was some way of GOOD training to get new players into the game MECHANICS and not how a map plays

and regarding the fancy icons and hints all around the game you have to remember that even in a community like cod, 3/4 of the ppl HATED those

i still remember the uproar when cod2 was released with fancy indicotors for literally every single ****ty thing you could think of and the uproar in the IW (yes not some other community, the IW community itself) they created

basically the only players that liked the icons were the extreme casual players, and i honestly DO NOT think that any of those guys would even look at HoS

He just said how it's supposed to work. How long do you think a new comer would stay around if they immediately walked into a map like Black Day July? Not to mention, there were plenty of relatively linear maps in RO.
 
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LemoN

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 26, 2006
6,295
2,346
0
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Prussotroll's Bridge
I think it's 1. That was the impression I got from the videos.



He just said how it's supposed to work. How long do you think a new comer would stay around if they immediately walked into a map like Black Day July? Not to mention, there were plenty of relatively linear maps in RO.

even in RO:HoS he would walk into such a map if it was there, as he doesnt really know what the name of the map means

its not about making maps for beginners, thats impossible as a beginner has a 50-50 chance to get on a server with a non action map

the only reason to do "action" maps is to supply the reduced realism crowd wich allready knows the map names

and even if they were specially designated as beginner maps, i couldnt think of anyone taking notice of that
edit: as a clarification: even if you print a list of maps for beginners or designate a map as a beginner map with a sign wich takes place of the full freaking screen most ppl will think: pah i are rockz0rz at CS, i rockzorz are here, no need for n00bmapz
 
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-[SiN]-bswearer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 3, 2008
3,476
1,942
0
Many of you guys seem to only think about the hardcore veterans and what will make them happy.

This sums up almost every thread in the entire suggestions forum. Elitists are so afraid of TW messing up what they feel is "their" game.....truth is that it is NOT their game, it is TW's game and they will do with it as they please. they aren't stupid....they realize that they've got a lot to do to try to reach out to the wide variety of players and have the things that everyone looks for in the game. i believe that they will produce a game that has something for everyone and will be flexible enough to enable this or disable that in order to fit the game to your personal liking.

for lockdown i'm pretty certain it is #1. in the video, i can't remember exact time, he clearly stated that the lockdown had to do with individual objectives as part of the overall map time.....said something like "if the defenders can acheive a lockdown for a certain objective, they can end the map before the allotted time runs out."

don't worry.....most everyone is still partially confused until we see it in action. all i know is that one guy watching the presentation was EXTREMELY confused, heck he couldn't even figure out what a capzone or capbar was and how capping objectives worked. should have told him to play RO!!! :D
 

abacus

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 14, 2008
10
0
0
I think it should be done the way it's done in TF2, for every objective captured and locked, the attacking team gets extra time, rather than having each objective have a timer. Note, captured and locked down, not just captured, that way when an objective is still being disputed the defending team will still have time to win the round. This way, you don't have to wait at the bridgeheads for the whole 20 minute round, but if the attacking team doesn't capture both the objectives in the first 10 minutes, the round is over since it's nearly impossible to win past that point.