Point - Counterpoint
Speed - Agreed, but necessary for zerker not to die every round
Quickness - This is BS. Zerker is the slowest to react to a specimen since you have to be at melee range to attack a spec. He is hardly the only perk that can hit specs before they hit him, or do ranged attacks not count?
Cheap Weapons - True but at level 6 every perk gets super weapons way before they are necessary so it doesn't mean much other than you have extra money to buy relevant non-perk ranged weapons.
No ammo cost - You state that part of the reason zerker is good is integration of ranged weapons. This point is both weak and wrong.
Light weapons - Weapons are light so you can carry expensive, heavy non-perk weapons.
Zerker's ability to apply damage does not diminish over time - A reasonable player should no problems with running out of ammo with most perks. They have all been build to have sufficient ammo to do your job for the round and then some.
No reload/fatigue - This is a big thing that help zerker be good. Agreed.
No FF - This helps zerker but the point is only really "zerker sucks with FF," not any relevant point since a lot of perk suck with FF and the game was not build to properly deal with FF as a game mechanic.
Suvivability - The chance of you surviving the wipe is good but the chance of finishing the wave if this happens ranges from decent (2 players) to highly unlikely (6 players). The survivability is more of a side effect of zerker needing to not die when facing more than one spec at melee range.
Resistances - It helps but again is mostly a symptom of him being actually playable.
Clot grip - By far the best bonus a zerker has and a must to keep him relevant.
Excellent post. My reply...
Speed - I agree 100%. Zerker should be the fastest of all of the perks. I'm simply asking for some type of balance to the speed. Not being able to run at the fully accelerated speed all of the time. Lower carrying capacity which explains the faster speed. Maybe no armor? Some things like that.
Quickness - I disagree with the "have to be at melee range" argument. Melee gets much faster attacks with melee weapons (which they should) and that allows for faster attacks when a specimen is RIGHT THERE. Reaction time to a specimen 20 feet away really isn't "reaction time", is it?
Cheap Weapons - That was my point. Zerker gets his top tier weapons first trader wave and that is all the money they
have to spend. Every other perk, other than flamer, has to save and budget for their more powerful weapons.
No ammo cost - I said "No ammo cost unless required." If a zerker doesn't want to buy ammo, he doesn't need to. When I play sharpie, I have to buy 9mm, cannon, and xbow/m79/whatever else ammo every wave. Zerker doesn't unless he wants to. Add in that it doesn't cost the zerker any money to kill anything with a perked weapon.
Light weapons - Exactly. Other perks don't have that huge advantage.
Damage doesn't diminish - Yes and no. A player who properly husbands his ammo will have no problem in a normal wave when everyone stays alive, sure. But what does that really mean? A sharpie will be using the 9mm, cannon, and m14 or xbow ammo. A commando will be using bullpup or ak and scar. Support will be using a combo of shotgun, hunty, and aa12. Firebug will be using MAC10 and flamer. Demo will be using m79 and m32. Now, what if the wave stretches out because players die? Players will run out of ammo and they do run out of ammo all of the time. (BTW, I hate that players can stockpile weapons on the deck) So they have to pick up unperked weapons or use less powerful perked weapons. Not the zerker. The zerker puts out full damage with his perked weapons from specimen 1 to the last specimen no matter how many specimens there were or how many times the zerker fires.
No reload/fatigue - I'm not sure of your opinion here. I do know that not having to ever pause while spamming is a huge benefit.
No FF - Mainly the zerker sucks with FF because with FF every player is effectively covering the zerker when the zerker runs into the crowd. No FF allows everyone to play sloppily and that benefits the zerker the most. Zerker can actually run out of crowd when he gets into trouble. Game deals with FF just fine. It is off by default.
Survivability - Sure, but the other perks have no chance to survive. I'm not saying they should either.
Resistances - Zerker should have the best resistances.
Clot grip - Sure. He shouldn't be able to be grabbed by clots. I still think that other perks being unable to break grip by jumping is game breaking. I was playing HoE the other day and I was running from an FP and scrake. A bloat and 3 clots spawned in front of me. Know the most dangerous specimen in that scenario? The clots. I had less than a second to pull of 4 perfect headshots with 4 shots of 3 clots and then the bloat. If I miss
any of those shots I die. I missed the third clot HS (I popped his head back, but no HS), bloat spewed, clot held, scrake caught up. Unbreakable clot grab is gamebreaking.
I'll add a point of my own:
Zerker has little flexibility in dealing with threats. Once committed to a threat, the zerker may have to travel some distance and encounter additional threats on the way. Basically you can't turn and shoot, then change targets as much as other perks.
Still I'm glad that some people can see that zerker isn't inherently a bad perk. Just that it isn't any more OP than any other perk.
A zerker isn't really /committed/ to dealing with a specimen some distance away. While the zerker does have to get close to use perked weapons and every zerker I have ever played with carries many ranged weapons, the zerker can also buy time and in this game, time means health.
To be honest, I could live with a more expensive Fire Axe, Katana or Chainsaw. Ditto for a reduced weight carry. Might not like it at first, but I'd adapt since I don't utilize the full carry weight as a Berserker anyway. Reduce it from 15 to 12?
I'd even go more sever than that. Zerker is supposed to be light and fast right? Perked weapons + sidearms only.
As far as gas or fatigue go, I know L4D2 has a fuel meter for its chainsaw and once it's out it's useless. Natural Selection's Kharaa (aliens) are melee oriented and have a recharging energy meter that is consumed whenever they bite/ slash or use other abilities. If fatigue were to be instituted, would you go the recharging meter route?
Something like that. Just anything to keep the zerker from spamming fire, which is exactly what they can do, from the start of the wave till the last specimen is dead. You have no idea how much I abhor the ability for the zerker to stand on the side of the door while every specimen simply walks into a zone of mindless, mouse-button-holding-down zone of death.
With the resurgence of the chainsaw, the ammo boxes should provide fuel.
If nothing else, Nutter's suggestions make for a neat thought experiment, so just treat it as that.
Thanks.
This isn't an HTML or English class Nutter, attacking vocabulary will accomplish nothing.
First off, I didn't attack you. If you want examples of attacking, check out your replies. Second, quote what you mean to quote. I didn't comment on your English, grammar, or punctuation. I don't do that.
Misunderstanding here, what I meant was if a zerker tries to solo two FPs in the same round, he's dead. The first one destroys your armor, and second will finish you, even at full HP. This is less of a problem on large maps but in confined spaces you don't have much hope.
Sure, on small spaces there is less of a chance. But there is a good chance. With every other perk, other than support (if he still has grenades which will run out) and demo, there is no chance. And demo won't survive the attacks from the other specimens.
So while there is a chance for zerker, there isn't a chance for the other perks (other than medic with armor). Add in that the zerker has the ability to shape what attacks and when, he chances are easily best.
You have been proven wrong by quite a few people in this thread, and all you have to say to them is "I disagree" (if you don't just ignore them completely because they're on your steadily growing ignore list). We all know your position on this Nutter, you made the thread. No reason to just say it over and over again.
I haven't been proven wrong. A few people disagree with me and that's cool. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. BTW, nice passive aggressive comment on me ignoring others who simply want to start fights in threads. And that is why I am going to stop this discussion with you about this thread.
If you want to talk about the zerker being OP or not OP, then I will be more than happy to discuss that with you. If you want to continue to insult and comment just about me or the thread, I won't reply.