How the Berserker is overpowered...

[Evilsod]

Don't waste your breath weeman. Nutter is prone to major overexaggeration and refuses to listen to anything other people have to say because what he says is gospel and must be correct.

Pretty much everything in his OP and everything he has commented on proves that. It seems to assume that something that could happen when luck is involved, such as a Zerker managing to survive a wipe in an enclosed map like Biotics or Bedlam or Office by running through the 2 Sirens, 5 Gorefasts, 3 Bloats, 2 Stalkers, 1 Husk, 1 Fleshpound, 1 Scrake and 5 Clots (oh but wait they can't grab you... which apparently means they can't damage you or simply get in your way) that just annihilated your team. It might happen based on luck (depending on what spawns in the corridor if you even make it out the room) but that apparently means it will happen every time.

The update isn't even public yet but somehow he also thinks he can comment on the number of zerkers people use?

 

[9_6]

Rather than saying that I am wrong saying the zerker has no weaknesses, tell me a few. Or even one.

How about you list the weaknesses of each perk up so I have a clue what on earth constitutes as a "weakness" since the ones I -repeatedly- mentioned somehow don't exist/don't count as a "weakness".

 

[nutterbutter]

How about you list the weaknesses of each perk up so I have a clue what on earth is as a "weakness" since the ones I -repeatedly- mentioned somehow don't exist/don't count as a "weakness".

Uhh, no. It was mentioned about how the zerker interacts with specimens so I spent a considerable amount of time on this post and my reward was a bunch of people responding with names and insults. No way am I going to spend even more time going over every perk. I didn't want to do this one, but people kept asking for specifics.

Look, everything in the game boils down to surviving. Kill the last specimen and the team wins. Every bonus of the zerker meshes with survivability; speed, damage resistances, quickness, slipperiness, no reloading (unless he wants and the zerker can even generate distance to safely reload), no ammo, and light weapons.

/Every/ perk is fine at the beginning of the wave. /Every/ perk is fine when they have full health, specimens at a distance, full ammo, and teammates. So it doesn't make any sense to consider possible scenarios then. Sure, support is a devastating perk with the full health, full armor, aa12, shotgun, dual cannons, and 11 grenades at the beginning of the wave. Same with every other perk. So it doesn't make much sense to compare survivability then. Put the perks on the run with low health, low ammo, and specimens still spawning, then discussion of perks survivability matters. Every perk, with full ammo, can solo an FP /once/. It gets interesting after that.

 

[Salad Snake]

So basically you're saying Berserker is overpowered because all the other perks can have an empty weapon while Berserker can always swing?

Hmm, let me rephrase that: "Swords are more powerful then guns because guns can run out of bullets" A sword obviously has other disadvantages that make guns a more appealing choice.


Part of skill and working as a team is making sure you don't have to reload at a bad moment. Besides, it's not like Zerker has no discomfort at all when he foolishly lets himself get surrounded. Berserkers can easily get eaten for lunch in those situations, they just have more survivability then the other perks. But it's not like it's the difference between night and day.

 

[Sammers]

Time for a quick reply before thie thread of fail gets locked.
I disagree, for many reasons, all of which have already been mentioned countless times already. I'm going to save myself the bother of repeating them.

I am also inciting rule 11 of the internet in an effort to make you stop coming up with this rubbish.
"11) All of your carefully picked arguments can easily be ignored"

/thread.

 

[Unit-05]

I am also inciting rule 11 of the internet in an effort to make you stop coming up with this rubbish.
"11) All of your carefully picked arguments can easily be ignored"

/thread.

Well said Sammers, The law of the internet has spoken.

Also, How is it a person can be so damn convinced that everyone else is wrong except him? When such a scenario happens, Why don't they think for a moment why this has happend and maybe even admit guilt? Also, why do you keep posting here if you Know for a fact that people will just tell you to go away and not even bother with your arguments? (as the rating system of your posts explain that already)

 

[outofrealman]

(depending on what spawns in the corridor if you even make it out the room)

This.

If you get lucky for the spawning, you can solo with many perks on many maps when your team dies. I the spawning wants to **** with you, no matter what you're dead. I dont see how any perk can survive when around 25-30 zeds running behind you and one fleshpound spawn with two sirens in the next corner.

 

[nutterbutter]

This.

If you get lucky for the spawning, you can solo with many perks on many maps when your team dies. I the spawning wants to **** with you, no matter what you're dead.

If it really was completely random then the surviving perk would be random.

I dont see how any perk can survive when around 25-30 zeds running behind you and one fleshpound spawn with two sirens in the next corner.

That's easy. Keep running with the knife out and run past the sirens and FP. Don't attack any of the three. If the sirens happen to scream, zerker makes it past both easily. Then all specimens are behind you. Every other perk /will/ have to engage the sirens immediately and will probably trigger the FP.

 

[outofrealman]

If it really was completely random then the surviving perk would be random.




That's easy. Keep running with the knife out and run past the sirens and FP. Don't attack any of the three. If the sirens happen to scream, zerker makes it past both easily. Then all specimens are behind you. Every other perk /will/ have to engage the sirens immediately and will probably trigger the FP.

If run pass 2 sirens and one fleshpound is considered "easy" then that plaayer must have enough skill to just HEAD SHOT those sirens before they even scream.

 

[Voodoo Shoe]

The sad thing is, I dont disagree with nutterbutter at all...and i really dont know why everyone is actually nailing this guy to a tree for what he is saying because in truth what he is saying is correct.

With the actual perk bonus the zerker gets he does have the best chance of survival.

But i dont agree he is OP. On a map like farm yes he shreads because he has so much open space...and to be honest on that map you should never get hit.

But due to the nature of the other maps..if you do find yourself backing up in a corner he is the most likely perk to die first.

 

[9_6]

No one disagreed that the zerker is one of the best perks when it comes to survivability.
It's the conclusion that survivability = overpowered that boggles the mind and also the logic that because there is a possibility to overcome a weakness, it not only doesn't exist anymore, it's a strength which, for a perk full of weaknesses, of course means it only has strengths.

 

[Voodoo Shoe]

No one disagreed that the zerker is one of the best perks when it comes to survivability.
It's the conclusion that survivability = overpowered that boggles the mind and also the logic that because there is a possibility to overcome a weakness, it not only doesn't exist anymore, it's a strength which, for a perk full of weaknesses, of course means it only has strengths.

ah ok well....i guess it comes down to the nature in which you can survive!

And Zerker/Medic i guess in theory can survive the best and without any backup?
Mainly because of speed, resistance etc?

So in the hands of a very skillful player then i can see why he would be over powered as a single perk compared to the rest.

 

[Evilsod]

Your ability to get out of a wipe scenario is not indicative of your ability to survive the rest of the wave solo. It doesn't take a genius to guess that the Zerker with his speed, damage resistance, bloat resistance and no clot grab has the best chance of rushing out of a wipe and escaping, nor that a Medic with his speed boost, insane armour boosts and bloat resistance also has a good chance of getting out alive, whereas the other perks primarily need to shoot there way out which is possible really for anyone but Demo.

Once you get out of the room then what? Your stood in a hallway with a few more enemies coming down the stairs and tons more on your tail ready to rip you a new arsehole the moment you attempt to self heal because you almost certainly just lost at least half health getting out alive. You go to move through a doorway and suddenly theres a crawler in it which takes you a moment to shoot/kill and by that time a Gorefast has slashed you from behind. You manage to get through the door and turn round to kill the Gorefast the moment a Husk shoots at you making the Gorefast bounce to the side away from your shot while you burn to death. This is hardly a random occurance, this is going to happen 9/10 times you try to flee a wipe on any map that isn't WestLondon or Farm.

 

[Voodoo Shoe]

Your ability to get out of a wipe scenario is not indicative of your ability to survive the rest of the wave solo. It doesn't take a genius to guess that the Zerker with his speed, damage resistance, bloat resistance and no clot grab has the best chance of rushing out of a wipe and escaping, nor that a Medic with his speed boost, insane armour boosts and bloat resistance also has a good chance of getting out alive, whereas the other perks primarily need to shoot there way out which is possible really for anyone but Demo.

Once you get out of the room then what? Your stood in a hallway with a few more enemies coming down the stairs and tons more on your tail ready to rip you a new arsehole the moment you attempt to self heal because you almost certainly just lost at least half health getting out alive. You go to move through a doorway and suddenly theres a crawler in it which takes you a moment to shoot/kill and by that time a Gorefast has slashed you from behind. You manage to get through the door and turn round to kill the Gorefast the moment a Husk shoots at you making the Gorefast bounce to the side away from your shot while you burn to death. This is hardly a random occurance, this is going to happen 9/10 times you try to flee a wipe on any map that isn't WestLondon or Farm.

What you say is true yes....in the hands of an average/good player.
You will find yourself dead most of the time in those situations.

But in the hands of a very good player those scenarios only occur if they do something stupid.

You can kite zeds pretty much any map you play as long as you have a good circuit and are on your toes and of course have the right load out with the Zerker. And thats what it sounds like nutterbutter is saying which is 100% true.

Games need to be balanced at the top scale of skill not mid-range or low-range.
Not offending anyone or meaning to sound smart...but its true.

If the Zerker has the best chance of surviving..and you put that chance in the hands of an excellent player....he's untouchable.

 

[outofrealman]

What you say is true yes....in the hands of an average/good player.
You will find yourself dead most of the time in those situations.

But in the hands of a very good player those scenarios only occur if they do something stupid.

You can kite zeds pretty much any map you play as long as you have a good circuit and are on your toes and of course have the right load out with the Zerker. And thats what it sounds like nutterbutter is saying which is 100% true.

Games need to be balanced at the top scale of skill not mid-range or low-range.
Not offending anyone or meaning to sound smart...but its true.

If the Zerker has the best chance of surviving..and you put that chance in the hands of an excellent player....he's untouchable.

How much top skilled level players are there? We should balance the game for most players, not the top 5% players. Most player with enough experience can solo a wave on wide opened maps.

You can dodge one husk's attack easily, not when 3 of them shooting at you once 0.5 sceonds. You can solo a fleshpound easily by baiting its attack, not when some sirens around and one or more husk in behind shooting at you. Not to mention endlessly spwning crawlers which force you to pull out a ranged weapon to shoot all the time (force you to give up speed bonus).

Or someone post a vedio showing that how excatly how to solo 100+ zeds at late wave on some indoor maps by implementing nutter's "theory" to overcoming those "weakness" of berserker IN REAL GAMING.

 

[Voodoo Shoe]

How much top skilled level players are there? We should balance the game for most players, not the top 5% players.

Sadly that is wrong.

You can not balance a game on average gamers! It doesn't work that way and never will.

SC2 is a prime example of this.
Blizzard let the worlds best players pound the hell out of it and find the problems.
If people like you and me did it the game would be a mess.

Same with this game. If you let low-end/mid-range gamers balance it it would be ruined within minutes.

Sadly gaming skill is very much like intelligence...you see things from a different level.

As smug and big headed as it may seem its true which does suck, but its just the way it is...sadly.

But as it stands the Zerker is getting a nerf anyways right? so we might aswell just wait and see what happens

 

[outofrealman]

Sadly that is wrong.

You can not balance a game on average gamers! It doesn't work that way and never will.

SC2 is a prime example of this.
Blizzard let the worlds best players pound the hell out of it and find the problems.
If people like you and me did it the game would be a mess.

Same with this game. If you let low-end/mid-range gamers balance it it would be ruined within minutes.

Sadly gaming skill is very much like intelligence...you see things from a different level.

As smug and big headed as it may seem its true which does suck, but its just the way it is...sadly.

But as it stands the Zerker is getting a nerf anyways right? so we might aswell just wait and see what happens

What nutter say is zerker is STILL overpowed. Which is not the case.

 

[nutterbutter]

If run pass 2 sirens and one fleshpound is considered "easy" then that plaayer must have enough skill to just HEAD SHOT those sirens before they even scream.

Do you not ready what I typed? You asked how to handle that situation. I told you.

That's easy. Keep running with the knife out and run past the sirens and FP. Don't attack any of the three. If the sirens happen to scream, zerker makes it past both easily. Then all specimens are behind you. Every other perk /will/ have to engage the sirens immediately and will probably trigger the FP.

 

[Deafmute]

Just wiped on Offices with two Zerkers on the team. One was wrecked by a few Sirens.

No weaknesses. Totally.

 

[nutterbutter]

Just wiped on Offices with two Zerkers on the team. One was wrecked by a few Sirens.

No weaknesses. Totally.

Exactly. Because I said that two zerkers on a team ensure completely invulnerability for that team. Or that two zerkers on a team means that those two zerkers will never die. Or maybe the two zerkers on that team each made a bad decision and got tagged. Or maybe they got caught by a bad spawn? Or maybe they were healing others and got tapped? Or maybe one of them was adjusting their microphone and a specimen snuck up on them?

Zerkers being OP doesn't mean that they will never die. Nor does it mean that the zerker's perks can't overcome someone making a bad decision.

Why do you people take things to such extremes? Why anyone would think that me saying zerker is OP means that zerkers will never die amazes me.