How the Berserker is overpowered...

[SMIFF]

do we really need to deny any possibility to survive when everyone else is dead.

6 Man Suicidal? Late waves?

Yes.

 

[9_6]

On one hand, the game should remain beatable.
On the other, who enjoys watching someone solo anyway?

What you repeatedly don't mention though is that it takes a lot of skill to do. You take the easy route by just saying "there are no weaknesses".
If the patch is ready, you won't be seeing zerkers left and right just like there used to be m14 spammers left and right just because they have the potential to deal with everything.
I believe you said yourself that you have in fact not seen an awful lot of skilled zerkers until the beta.

So yeah.

 

[weeman2412]

The berserker fails when he is cornered.. a crossbow+katana can only go so far (that happens to be the "most optimal" weapon selection.. i.e. pistols without SS isn't very effective.. the reload time alone makes it sub optimal against hordes of ZEDS.. wouldn't want to waste those 40 pierce shots from the crossbow because you need it for big zeds.. and katanas don't really work against husks that are hiding behind all them zeds.. the crawler/gorefast distractions alone should kill you..

In general Berserkers is not overpowered.. he has no consistent range advantage and no humongous AOE weapon damage... In fact he is not even a tank.. he is just a SS with really strong melee.. and weak firepower... This won't carry the game in suicidal on non-easy maps.. easy being westlondon... or any maps with room to move.. Unless you are playing on normal.. in that case I have no comment..

 

[outofrealman]

I really dont think we should encourage the last man to suicide instead of try to fight (it fails 90% of the time on most of the maps anyway).

Unless you make the game simply unbeatable, sooner or later people WILL find a way to solo such as rage the fp on purpose when a susk/scrake is between you and the fp. So we should make zeds dont do any friendly fire when that happen? When people find a route that you can weld a lot of doors whenever a fp is raging, we should make fp stay rage forever?

As long as the game is beatable, top tier player will still find a way to beat it the way they want. However, 99% of players are not top tier. Or we should make suicidal for the top 1% of players? Sometimes very skilled players can solo a late wave as zerker WITH LUCK. And I would believe even the best zerker in the world cannot solo a late wave everytime. The chance is already slim enough, we dont need to take it away.

 

[outofrealman]

On one hand, the game should remain beatable.
On the other, who enjoys watching someone solo anyway?

What you repeatedly don't mention though is that it takes a lot of skill to do. You take the easy route by just saying "there are no weaknesses".
If the patch is ready, you won't be seeing zerkers left and right just like there used to be m14 spammers left and right just because they have the potential to deal with everything.
I believe you said yourself that you have in fact not seen an awful lot of skilled zerkers until the beta.

So yeah.

Even when sharpshotoers are laughably overpowered, I dont see a team with more than two sharpshooters.

 

[9_6]

Even when sharpshotoers are laughably overpowered, I dont see a team with more than two sharpshooters.

I've seen games with 5 sharpshooters pre-patch.

5 berserkers would also simply have no synergy. All their strength lies in running away efficiently after all.

 

[outofrealman]

I've seen games with 5 sharpshooters pre-patch.

May be its just me, but I can only see that much sharpshooters on hard servers (pre-patch). On suicidal, people either dont know what they are doing (so 0-3lv perks join) or know excally what they should do (so they will not be a sharpshooter when there's already two).

However on hard servers, I always see a bunch of 6lvs spam shots with any gun they have. And a lot of players want to be sharpshotoer as they can one body shot any clots crawlers and stalker to get the highest kill count. (there's a reason why most players dont play suicidal: either they cannot win or cannot get the highest kill count)

 

[Honda]

Wait, isn't this a co-op game? Why all this "overpowered" QQing???

Is your fun taken away by the "oh-so-owerpowered" zerkers who own you everytime??? - Oh, wait....

 

[9_6]

Wait, isn't this a co-op game? Why all this "overpowered" QQing???

I dunno.
People like a challenge?

 

[Honda]

I dunno.
People like a challenge?

You mean, a challenge on the forums like a debate? Or a challenge ingame with an "underpowered" class?

 

[9_6]

You mean, a challenge on the forums like a debate? Or a challenge ingame with an "underpowered" class?

A challenge of not having the option to easily deal with problems that shouldn't be that easy to deal with in-game.

 

[SMIFF]

Unless you make the game simply unbeatable, sooner or later people WILL find a way to solo such as rage the fp on purpose when a susk/scrake is between you and the fp.

If people can consistently pull that off, then more power to them. I know they won't be able too.

As long as the game is beatable, top tier player will still find a way to beat it the way they want. However, 99% of players are not top tier. Or we should make suicidal for the top 1% of players?

Yes.

The chance is already slim enough

No it isn't. I'v seen it happen on several occasions in the beta alone. Hell, I'v done it myself and I'm not even a 'top tier' Berserker.

 

[Compass]

A good player should not win 100% of the time on all maps. I certainly would do better on an open West London than on something as disastrous as Offices, where sometimes I can't even get my headshots off.

 

[outofrealman]

For now, when half of a team dies, we have to run around the map most likely. And when a fp shows up, everyone is like "oh ****!" and run away, the fp is keep putting pressure on the survivors while giving them hope to try and fight.

If you make fp rage nomatter what, when half of a team dies and zeds count is higher than 100, people will already start to vote for the next map. Because when a fp shows up, you stand no chance as it will rage in no time and rape everyone left.

Also, on many maps (such as office) you cannot really kite, you end up surrounded nealry 100% of the time. On biolab or bedlam, you can only find a "safest circle" to run around, and pray. If 2 sirens + some gorefasts spawn in front of you, you are screwed anyway. If we only consider those always easy map such as londen or manor, of cos it "seems" easy to solo.

 

[Deafmute]

For now, when half of a team dies, we have to run around the map most likely. And when a fp shows up, everyone is like "oh ****!" and run away, the fp is keep putting pressure on the survivors while giving them hope to try and fight.

If you make fp rage nomatter what, when half of a team dies and zeds count is higher than 100, people will already start to vote for the next map. Because when a fp shows up, you stand no chance as it will rage in no time and rape everyone left.

Also, on many maps (such as office) you cannot really kite, you end up surrounded nealry 100% of the time. On biolab or bedlam, you can only find a "safest circle" to run around, and pray. If 2 sirens + some gorefasts spawn in front of you, you are screwed anyway. If we only consider those always easy map such as londen or manor, of cos it "seems" easy to solo.

...So?

Changing the FP's rage mechanics wouldn't result in entire team wipes immediately. It would just prevent players from kiting him around the map for thirty minutes abusing the "one shot, wait two seconds" method.

 

[outofrealman]

...So?

Changing the FP's rage mechanics wouldn't result in entire team wipes immediately. It would just prevent players from kiting him around the map for thirty minutes abusing the "one shot, wait two seconds" method.

That means when people start to die you can vote for the next map.

 

[Deafmute]

That means when people start to die you can vote for the next map.

...No, it means when everyone is alive but one person, that person will die.

 

[nutterbutter]

The problem is more to do with the FP rage mechanics than the actual Berserker.

Somewhat. But what most people don't understand is that everything on the melee is built for health. Faster speed, faster attack, no clot grab, & resistances. Faster speed allows the zerker to disengage when he needs to. Faster speed allows a combination attack by husks/sirens and crawlers to be dealt with sequentially rather than simultaneously. Faster speed allows for breaking of line of sight from the specimens. Everything for the zerker allows for him to run away and heal.

What you repeatedly don't mention though is that it takes a lot of skill to do. You take the easy route by just saying "there are no weaknesses".

It takes a lot of skill for a single player to solo 80+ specimens on 6 player suicidal. But what happens when you put 2 zerkers that are well above average on that same team? They easily take out the FPs and scrakes that arrive.

Look, if that is the way TWI wants the game to be balanced then that is fine. Their sandbox, their rules. If they want to create a perk that 90% of the time is the one that stays alive then fine. But don't tell me that zerker isn't OP and now is the balancing period so I'm going to mention it.

That is what amazes me. Most say that the zerker is balanced and that I am wrong, but reality proves me right. After all, it isn't the demo perk that survives 90% of the time. Or can kite scores of specimens. Or solo multiple FPs. The reality is what happens in the game and right now, there is a reason other than just blind luck or coincidence that the zerker is the one that is left alive 90% of the time.

If the zerker has a weakness that doesn't affect the other perks is a worse way, let me know. General attacks and specimens aren't a weakness. Crawlers aren't a weakness because the zerker deals with them better than every other perks. Same thing with husks and sirens. Same thing with most every combination of specimens.

Rather than saying that I am wrong saying the zerker has no weaknesses, tell me a few. Or even one.

If the patch is ready, you won't be seeing zerkers left and right just like there used to be m14 spammers left and right just because they have the potential to deal with everything.

Seeing 3 zerkers on a team now is common. Very common.

I believe you said yourself that you have in fact not seen an awful lot of skilled zerkers until the beta.

Actually you made that ridiculous statement that out of the 1000+ hours I've played on KF, I've only seen skilled zerkers in the 60 hours of beta.

The berserker fails when he is cornered..

All perks usually fail when cornered. All perks, except the zerker, have to pause to reload. All perks, except for the zerker, have to procure ammo. All perks, except for the zerker, can not run through a group of specimens and not expect to be held.

I've seen games with 5 sharpshooters pre-patch.

All the time. And 6 sharpies as well.

5 berserkers would also simply have no synergy. All their strength lies in running away efficiently after all.

If they all used only the katana 100% of the time. But no one expects them to do that, do we?

Actually, all of their strength lies in their heath-related perks. Why do you think the medic playing a zerker was so good? The same thing only a little more obvious.

 

[weeman2412]

Somewhat. But what most people don't understand is that everything on the melee is built for health. Faster speed, faster attack, no clot grab, & resistances. Faster speed allows the zerker to disengage when he needs to. Faster speed allows a combination attack by husks/sirens and crawlers to be dealt with sequentially rather than simultaneously. Faster speed allows for breaking of line of sight from the specimens. Everything for the zerker allows for him to run away and heal.





It takes a lot of skill for a single player to solo 80+ specimens on 6 player suicidal. But what happens when you put 2 zerkers that are well above average on that same team? They easily take out the FPs and scrakes that arrive.

Look, if that is the way TWI wants the game to be balanced then that is fine. Their sandbox, their rules. If they want to create a perk that 90% of the time is the one that stays alive then fine. But don't tell me that zerker isn't OP and now is the balancing period so I'm going to mention it.

That is what amazes me. Most say that the zerker is balanced and that I am wrong, but reality proves me right. After all, it isn't the demo perk that survives 90% of the time. Or can kite scores of specimens. Or solo multiple FPs. The reality is what happens in the game and right now, there is a reason other than just blind luck or coincidence that the zerker is the one that is left alive 90% of the time.

If the zerker has a weakness that doesn't affect the other perks is a worse way, let me know. General attacks and specimens aren't a weakness. Crawlers aren't a weakness because the zerker deals with them better than every other perks. Same thing with husks and sirens. Same thing with most every combination of specimens.

Rather than saying that I am wrong saying the zerker has no weaknesses, tell me a few. Or even one.



Seeing 3 zerkers on a team now is common. Very common.



Actually you made that ridiculous statement that out of the 1000+ hours I've played on KF, I've only seen skilled zerkers in the 60 hours of beta.





All perks usually fail when cornered. All perks, except the zerker, have to pause to reload. All perks, except for the zerker, have to procure ammo. All perks, except for the zerker, can not run through a group of specimens and not expect to be held.





All the time. And 6 sharpies as well.



If they all used only the katana 100% of the time. But no one expects them to do that, do we?

Actually, all of their strength lies in their heath-related perks. Why do you think the medic playing a zerker was so good? The same thing only a little more obvious.

@ All perks fail when cornered. All perks, except the zerker, have to pause to reload. All perks, except for the zerker, have to procure ammo. All perks, except for the zerker, can not run through a group of specimens and not expect to be held.

You are saying that as if it is fact.. it is not... Support got massive frontal cone range with the aa12.. an entire empty clip pretty much annihilates EVERYTHING in front of them.. thus making them no longer cornered.. Sharpshooters with dual handcannons on level 6.. can crush everything in front of them.. in ~7 seconds flat of spamming the handcannon.. then speed reload and repeat... that is like less than a second to reload your handcannons.. you also have a crossbow incase you accidentally rage a scrake or an FP with your handcannons...

By being held i think you mean clots... and those are mighty easy to kill.. most people are not insane enough to run through a mob of zombies anyways.. your argument is invalid..

Last I checked Zerkers got to reload pistols too.. and those take freakin ages without the SS perk.. Unless you mean the katana doesn't need to reload.. in that case.. any other class can get a katana.. and still use it effectively..

So either you don't know how to solo when necessary with other class.. or you're just oblivious to the fact that Berserkers have almost zero range power... and AOE power..

 

[nutterbutter]

You are saying that as if it is fact.. it is not... Support got massive frontal cone range with the aa12.. an entire empty clip pretty much annihilates EVERYTHING in front of them.. thus making them no longer cornered.. Sharpshooters with dual handcannons on level 6.. can crush everything in front of them.. in ~7 seconds flat of spamming the handcannon.. then speed reload and repeat... that is like less than a second to reload your handcannons.. you also have a crossbow incase you accidentally rage a scrake or an FP with your handcannons...

Sure support has massive firepower with the aa12. And yes, it can reset a hallway very quickly. But what if the aa12 is low or doesn't have any ammo? What happens when that aa12 or dual cannons have to be used to clear all of the specimens in front while an FP or scrake(s) are in the back? Or what about those crawlers that jump from the back up front?

But let's say the hall is clear. The sharpie is still slow and you expect him to get out of there? Support is even slower. Sure, /any/ perk can handle 10 low level specimens chasing him if they have ammo. But fast-forward to the end of a wave when the ammo is low, specimens are spawning in front and on top of the player and a single gorefast takes 50 health in less than a sec, let me know how the other perks do.

By being held i think you mean clots... and those are mighty easy to kill.. most people are not insane enough to run through a mob of zombies anyways.. your argument is invalid..

Sure, clots are easy to kill. But that really isn't the point is it? Let me know when you are backtracking from 3 gorefasts and a clot happens to grab you as you run past a door. Or you don't happen to kill that one clot and he grabs you while you reload and everything else catchs up while you are swapping mags.

As for running through a mob of specimens to be insane, keep thinking that.

Last I checked Zerkers got to reload pistols too.. and those take freakin ages without the SS perk.. Unless you mean the katana doesn't need to reload.. in that case.. any other class can get a katana.. and still use it effectively..

Sure they can. Every other perk has the damage bonus, the speed bonus to close into the sirens and bloat before they can attack, the quickness bonus to attack faster, the resistance bonus against damage, the speed bonus to disengage if needed, and the ability to run past clots. Yup, every other class is just as effective with the katana.

So either you don't know how to solo when necessary with other class.. or you're just oblivious to the fact that Berserkers have almost zero range power... and AOE power..

Yup. I'm inexperienced and oblivious.