How Significant an edge did..

[Thetoad]

The Garand M-1 give the U.S. Infantryman,as opposed to the Axis collection of rifles.
It can be said,that the British SMLE ,would be the only other rifle to possibly compete with it,due to the short bolt construction,as far as putting rounds on the target.....but the accuracy of semis,tend to be a tad less than bolt actions.

I guess the only viable answers might come from veterans of that war,,,,and simply asking them,,if they had a choice of all WW 11 infantry weapons,,which would they take to the field......

 

[Peter.Steele]

Garand.

[It is] the,,,,,,greatest implement,,,, of ,,,,,,,,,,, battle ,,, ever dev,,,,ised

/thread

 

[Faneca]

Garand
[It is] the,,,,,,greatest implement,,,, of ,,,,,,,,,,, battle ,,, ever dev,,,,ised
/thread

I DECLARE HERESY! Thou shal not undermine the glorious :IS2: !

 

[kapulA]

I'd have to say that, even though the MG42 was arguably the best LMG of the war, the US infantry were significantly better off with a squad of 12 with the usual configuration of 1 SMG, 10 Garands and 1 BAR than their German counterpart with 2 SMGs, 7 rifles and 1 MG.
I think that, in general, you could say that a trained German rifleman could manage 1 aimed shot every 4-5 seconds at most, while a trained GI could probably do 2 aimed shots in the same time, with the added bonus of expending the entire clip in fast succession if the situation required so, a bonus which most of his opposite numbers did not have.

 

[Faneca]

The M1 Garand is without a doubt one of the best semi-automatic rifles ever made but it is not the greatest battle device ever done.

As said above the MG42 can easily take that prize.

 

[Thetoad]

Interesting...

Interesting...

My original query was HOW......Significant was the M-1. Over others.....MR.KAP.cogently explained what I was looking for.The German formations were generally built around their machine guns,,,,whether they be the superbly machined M.G.34,or later....the mind blowing ability of the M.G.43.Imagine if they were able to maintain that cyclic rate.....without having to change the barrel.

I was also wondering,,why the army changed from the flexible 30.06 ,to the Winchester 308 Nato round.The debate still lingers..about which is the better round.In Thetoads eyes,,,it remains the Springfield.

 

[Peter.Steele]

I was also wondering,,why the army changed from the flexible 30.06 ,to the Winchester 308 Nato round.The debate still lingers..about which is the better round.In Thetoads eyes,,,it remains the Springfield.

Well, you have to remember that 7.62 NATO was the product of ~50 years worth of development in powder after the .30-06. Modern .30-06 loads have a lot of empty volume in the cartridge, because they don't need as much powder. 7.62 NATO, loaded correctly, can have very nearly the same ballistics as .30-06, but it takes up a lot less space, since it's a half-inch shorter. (.30-06 M2 ball ammo hits 2,740 FPS at the muzzle, M59 7.62 NATO is at 2,750.)

So, 7.62 NATO is as effective as the older round, but it uses less brass for making the cartridge. The rifle's action doesn't have to be so long, so that's material and weight saved there too.

So, hey, you can feel free to hump around as much .30-06 as you think you can carry, and I'll be carrying a bunch more 7.62 NATO per volume and per unit of mass than you. And I'll be able to reach out just as far, and hit just as hard.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

Garand.



/thread

Garand > Enfield? At that point I'd say it's more about the operator than his weapon.

Considering as the world known record ( could have been bested on the field ) is 38 rounds into a 12 " hole at 300 M ( 270 yards ) during the first world war in one minute.

 

[Faneca]

Considering as the world known record ( could have been bested on the field ) is 38 rounds into a 12 " hole at 300 M ( 270 yards ) during the first world war in one minute.

Heck yeah, Mad Minute up in this *****!

 

[CandleJack]

How fast you can go with an SMLE:
Speed of the SMLE - YouTube

How fast you can go when you're aiming:
Enfield rifle NO4, speed shoot - YouTube

Now, a semi-auto Garand is nice, the Enfield is very quick and smooth with its action.

 

[Thetoad]

That Display of..

That Display of..

Shooting,,,of the .303 Enfield,,SMLE...Reminds Thetoad of his short lived love affair of Jaguars.....If only they could work,,..I do jest here..The standard British infantryman,,,,,in their "Mad Minute",,,,would totally embarrass ,,the person attempting to display,,his supposed prowess .

Great Rifle when handled with competence .I think that DISPLAYER,,,,was an USAAA. I believe,,across the pond,,they might give that piece,,,,.,the justice,,it deserves.

 

[Flogger23m]

At least your OP made sense.

I'd go with M1 Garand. Semi auto = good.

 

[Lt_Kettch]

I still think the Mad Minute is a myth, yes they trained to shoot the SMLE fast but I am sure you can shoot any other bolt action rifle equally fast.

Best (or worst) example is probably Lee Harvey Oswald

And also *pling*

 

[Peter.Steele]

I still think the Mad Minute is a myth, yes they trained to shoot the SMLE fast but I am sure you can shoot any other bolt action rifle equally fast.

Best (or worst) example is probably Lee Harvey Oswald

And also *pling*

The Enfield really is distinctly faster to fire than other bolt action rifles, to be perfectly honest. It has a much shorter bolt throw than any other heavy-caliber rifle that I've ever heard of, which enables you to keep your sight picture while you operate the bolt, which means your follow-up shots can be very fast, for a well-trained rifleman. Try doing that with a Mauser or Mosin, and you'll need some eye surgery.

Lee Harvey Oswald didn't actually have to fire that fast. 3 aimed shots in 12 seconds, at a target less than 200 yards away, is not really that hard.

Oh, and btw, *pling* is an urban legend. I mean, not the sound itself, but the idea that the sound itself made any difference. I mean, seriously, do you really think that you'd be able to hear that sound in the middle of a firefight? Add to that, you wouldn't be wearing any hearing protection, so you'd probably already be partially / mostly deaf ...

 

[UncleDrax]

I still think the Mad Minute is a myth, yes they trained to shoot the SMLE fast but I am sure you can shoot any other bolt action rifle equally fast.

Without a doubt, my SMLE has a smoother and faster bolting action then any of my Nagants (a 1893 Dragoon, and a '44, but both the exact same MN action) or my Yugo-48 (obviously not a true Kar-98 action, still very similar) did.
For my Yugo-48, I also partially blame the low-quality ammo manufacture I had, but still the spring-assist of the SMLE just makes it faster, hands down.
On the MNs and the Yugo, I had to actually pull the bolt to the rear.. on my SMLE.. not so much.. it almost does it on it's own accord.

That said, I'm sure a rifleman that is well experienced with any of the quality battle rifles of the era are all tons faster and more accurate then I could ever be, and are probably all equally good for aimed fire. The only advantage I could really seeing being able to mad-minute would be from true massed-rush type combat, like the Zulu Wars (or maybe WW1?).. WW2 wasn't that same environment.

 

[Tomcat_ha]

according to some research done in ww2 in the end it wasnt the accuracy of guns that mattered but the rounds per minute fired. You guys need to remember that only 2% of all soldiers actively aimed to kill. A further 20 % aimed in the general direction of the enemy while the rest i dunno shoot at birds in the sky?
So yeah semi autos gives you an advantage, but at the same time the germans had a machine gun advantage and their machine gun could fire a lot more than the allied machine guns, pretty much negating the advantage the garand gives.

 

[theta123]

The Enfield really is distinctly faster to fire than other bolt action rifles, to be perfectly honest. It has a much shorter bolt throw than any other heavy-caliber rifle that I've ever heard of, which enables you to keep your sight picture while you operate the bolt, which means your follow-up shots can be very fast, for a well-trained rifleman. Try doing that with a Mauser or Mosin, and you'll need some eye surgery.

Lee Harvey Oswald didn't actually have to fire that fast. 3 aimed shots in 12 seconds, at a target less than 200 yards away, is not really that hard.

Yeah. If i take my lee enfield and compare its bolt cycle rate to my VZ24, mosin nagants...
Only the schmidt rubin and steyr mannlichers i have do it better.


And to the guys critizing the carcano. I have the same carcano modello as Harry lee oswald.The bolt cycle is fast enough for that ROF and Carcano's WHERE very accurate rifles as long as the ammo wassent arsenal mixed. The firepower being low is also a big myth.
I collect Carcano's, they are great rifles, beautifull. And well made and finished. If i compare my Carcano modello M91/41 made in FAT to a Lee-enfield or a Mosin nagant, or even american rifles, my carcano is more finished then those rifles

 

[Thetoad]

Why..Am I Not Amazed

Why..Am I Not Amazed

All I can honestly say,,,,Is Well Done
As mentioned,,the knowledge,,an almost unequaled level of expertise,has only added to my knowledge storeroom..I thank you you for that.

Wars,are fought by 3/4* Generals,adept at war games.The culmination of that was LT. F. Paulus.His expertise was war games,,,,,..not field command.Given the orders he was given,,,,and rebuked,,later in the war,proves to Planet toad satisfaction...decisions should be made,,,,by people in contact,,not overseers .

The scope of war,,has changed for the immediate future.Set piece battles would be hard to conceive,,,,,,save China..Fighting on ,or near her homeland,,,

World'S IN Collission.....coming soon.....to a theatre near you........

 

[bas]

The Garand M-1 give the U.S. Infantryman,as opposed to the Axis collection of rifles.
It can be

One on one the M1 Garand is clearly a superior rifle over anything the Axis armies had, with the exception of the StG.44 and captured SVT-40s (the difference between the M1 and the SVT for the average soldier are not worth arguing over).

However infantry engagements are not won one on one but by squads and the quality of German machineguns and their tactics ment that the German squad had an advantage on firepower over the Allies

 

[Tomcat_ha]

id say that the svt40 is quite notably better than the garand because of the box magazine alone.