How I thought HRG weaponry WAS going to work, and how it still can

[Breadsticks_]

I wanted to say this ever since the original announcement came out but for some unknown reason beyond me, I didn't. What I originally thought was going to happen was an expansion on the upgrade system, or at least a change to it to some extent.

What I thought would happen was

You buy the original weapon (e.g. Double Barrel Boomstick). When purchased you gained the option to purchase a secondary upgrade option, to convert the weapon to its HRG counterpart (HRG Kaboomstick) by spending the original price of the HRG weapon (1100 Dosh for the Kaboomstick). If you upgrade the original weapon, you lose the option to convert to HRG.

I know this point in of itself is super simple, but it actually does a lot that you wouldn't recognise without properly looking:

1. It majorly declutters the trader screen
2. There is a sense of reward for having saved up the dosh to change how the weapon works
3. It makes the Survivalist a realistic choice if you wanted to build into HRG
4. You have to choose your weapons carefully in the early game
5. It works wonders for Endless mode, since the prolonged effort to save up for this weapon makes the mode feel like more of a challenge for longer
6. It promotes communication throughout the party as to what loadouts people are building
7. The party role diversity will change as the game plays out, making for a fun and unique experience almost everytime

This would certainly increase the pick rate for some niche weapons like:
1. Stoner LMG
2. Freezethrower
3. HMTech-101 Pistol
4. Seal Squeal
5. VLAD Impaler
6. Microwave Gun

It's still easily play-testable and implementable because nothing about the HRG weapons are changing
The HRG rollout can still happen as normal with each seasonal update

Please TripWire can you atleast consider this, I think this will really enhance the KF experience and gain some serious attention

 

[Yoshiro]

That was never the plan, and it is unlikely this sort of system will be pursued for Killing Floor 2 as that sort of overhaul is currently outside of the scope of development.

The HRG weapons were and are designed to give new gameplay options to existing weapons and allow some weapons to work better with certain perks without all the balance issues that some crossperk weapons were causing.

 

[OnionBubs]

Leaving aside the fact that HRG weapons are a balancing travesty, I appreciate where you're coming from with regards to the idea, but given what I understand about the current implementation of HRGs in general this would be a nightmare in practice.

Assume 6P HoE Long Survival; the hardest of the standard modes (Endless is a different game mode and really isn't concerned with balance, same with Objective or PvP).

The main problem here is that most HRG versions of weapons are only relevant for completely different perks than the original model. So outside of some outliers like the 101/Disruptor, here's the issue:
Let's say a player is Berserker and wants the HRG Teslauncher. The proposed system requires a Berserker buying the Microwave Gun--a gun that is bad on-perk, to say nothing of offperk--and paying an amount equal to the HRG version on top of that: 1500 + 1500 = 3000 dosh...for a weapon that's just OK, but nothing spectacular.

Berserker has it somewhat easier in this regard because Zerk is a perk known for farming and dealing out dosh to other players, but look at it from this perspective: Already, I see that this would incentivize players to hoard money even harder than the current upgrade system already does, instead of giving it to other key players that would be better served getting their good weapons in the first place.

Now if that's already problematic for Berserker, think about someone like Support. Let's say a Support wants the HRG Buckshots, which are based off of the .500s...which are endgame Gunslinger weapons that are more expensive than the Buckshots themselves.

The econ implications for anyone trying to save up for HRG weapons would be horrendous. Assuming a weapon is good and worth running econ waves for (read: they would usually be underequipped), you've essentially added at least 1-2 extra waves before that weapon is procurable. Adding to this is that nobody wants to run around with a bad offperk weapon just to have their HRG one later. There is mmmmmaybe one exception I can think of for this, and that's running Freezethrower --> Healthrower, and that's only because both of those weapons are broken good in the current meta.

Adding insult to injury is that some HRG weapons are just not that good and this would literally be lighting your money on fire. Imagine a new player coming in as Demolitionist, realizing they have to buy a Sharpshooter's Crossbow and run with that until they can upgrade to the Crossboom. How many waves running a not-good offperk weapon + 1550 dosh + ammo cost, only to get that thing as the end result for all those efforts. And then you have to spend more money upgrading that weapon just so you can make it not-completely-awful. I can see the tears in my mind's eye.