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Horrible Perks Balance?

Humam2104

Grizzled Veteran
Jul 1, 2020
533
102
1. SWAT
Why is SWAT a slow perk? it uses SMGs, it doesn't have recoil reduction like the commando has (not holding the weapons firmly) - and btw, The Medic SMG is almost useless for a SWAT for it's long cool-time and 40 limit.
Two of the SWAT's skills are armor related when a player can lose armor very quickly and those skills go to waste!

2. The Medic
Medic Buffs just make SWAT and Commando a secondary option, or maybe a never go to option:
Medic has SMGs, Shotguns, ARs, Sniper Rifle (Incision) that EMPs everything while the other two are stuck with the normal shooting. Also, why pickup a sharpshooter when you can play with the Incision and EMP every boss in the game?
The medic can do every single thing a Commando/SWAT does and even better because it can move much quicker (20% boost)

3. Survivalist
Why is the survivalist having medic training but doesn't move quickly and doesn't heal himself? it also doesn't have bullet spread reduction for shotgun weapons (it has some hidden skills like Barbeque and Heat Wave) but nothing for Support's weapons? Not to mention the Low Magazine Size that doesn't actually help with small zeds and you have to keep reloading alot
Also, the survivalist has the passive skill Heavy Armor Training (by default). but doesn't have the ability to avoid clots grab? so it's a half of a skill?
The Survivalist has Melee Expert but no Vampire with it? so you're surrounded by zeds with no regen and no heal per kill option. And you can't heal yourself because the other skill is Medic training (reduces Syringe Cooldown by 50%)?

4. Berserker
Berserkers and Medics both have bloat bile resistance but the medic can see perfectly when vomited on by the bloat while the berserker doesn't? (This also applies to the survivalist)
 
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1) I actually find SWAT to be somewhat nimble... Not on top like the zerk, medic and gunslinger of course. But he's in the middle. It's definitely helped by the low weight of his guns however. I also don't see the problem with the recoil... I find it very manageable, definitely helped by the fact he can get the same speed while ADS or crouching with the right skill. It's actually one of the perk I find the EASIEST to stay on target with. And again yes, armor does get chewed up pretty fast... But it's the same for every perk, and I suppose that you know by now that even though you can lose it in 2-3 hits... It's very precious. Because those extra 2-3 hits can sometimes save your life. As such, I rarely use the armor skills myself, but they're great to spawn with. Commencing the game with 100% armor is a blessing. And again, I do find the large mags of the Medic's SMG to make it more than worthwhile... Way more so than the MP5 at the very least (but you're often better off using the MP7)

Honestly, the SWAT is one of the only perk I wouldn't touch. I don't quite get your issues with it?

2)I do agree that the medic is now one of the most versatile perk, but out of two things : you'd be the worst medic ever if you only pick offensive skills, and you have other tools in your arsenal. A medic using the Incisor, the Shotgun or the Mine Reconstructor wouldn't really step on the commando or SWAT ground. I also don't get what you mean by "EMP" ...Do you mean "damage over time", as in poison damage? Because if so, yes that's true... But DoT is notoriously bad in KF2. Even the firebug struggles to kill with afterburn alone.

I wouldn't go as far as to say the medic can do everything and better than the other perks, but it is true that he's actually a better jack-of-all-trades than the survivalist... To me, what should be done to it are :

-Tweaking his whole skill tree so it's not as binary (here, it's just a matter of going full-support or full battle medic... Having skills that are a bit less specific would be nice)

-Slightly nerfing most of his weapons so he stays a "trash-killer" first and foremost... I know that every perk should be able to be played effectively in solo, but the med's pros are definitely his survivability. He heals better and faster. He's fast. His grenades can actually heal him as well. I think that's already enough to make it effective on its own.

3)Well... The problem with survivalist is that it's MEANT to be able to do every perk's job, but worse. He obviously can't have all their advantages, otherwise he would end up like the medic (as you point out). But at the same time, as it stands, it really feels like the survivalist is pretty much a patchwork of random skills glued together... Hence why no one bothers. Again, I believe a proper, deeper, rework of its skill tree would improve the perk immensely. Because again... It is often very situational. Why would you pick a skill upgrading your melee stats when the improved healing is better in almost every circumstance? How could you pick one kind of reload when you may use a support weapon with a gunslinger secondary for example? Survivalist has been disappointing since its inclusion for me... Only helped by his unique weapons, which are pretty efficient and fun.

4)Nothing to say about that...Because it's simply true and hard to justify. I do believe he should be able to see perfectly. Either that or maybe take even less damage, or get a passive poisonous aura... Anything to justify the difference between his resistance and the medic's
 
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I also don't see the problem with the recoil​
I meant: SWAT doesn't have recoil reduction as the commando, so why not give him extra movement speed like the Gunslinger since they both use lightweight weapons!
I also don't get what you mean by "EMP"
The incision has an EMP unlike the Railgun which didn't, so the Incision is always a better choice (against patriarch and matriarch)

Well... The problem with survivalist is that it's MEANT to be able to do every perk's job, but worse
Currently, it's far worse! Low magazine size (Magazine of 30 for Commando's weapons)?, High recoil (Commando's weapons - Try the MKB or the medic AR), Low Movement Speed (It needs to be higher), Annoying reload system as you said.
I wouldn't go as far as to say the medic can do everything and better than the other perks
The medic does what other perks can't, for example:
pairing an SMG with a sniper rifle (one shot large zeds) - yes. But the SWAT doesn't have a sniper rifle as an on-perk weapon
Also, pairing an AR with a sniper rifle - Commando can't do that as well
Pairing an SMG/AR and a shotgun (penetrating through zeds) both SWAT and can't do that

It's very precious. Because those extra 2-3 hits can sometimes save your life.
Totally true, but both Medic has extra armor as passive skills while the SWAT has it as an active skill. The medic gets +75 armor as a passive thing while SWAT needs to waste 1 skill to get 150! the commando has it as a passive skill but you get +25 hp too! and it's far better to be honest because hp is permanent.

The survivalist is meant to be a jack of all trades but the medic is that, the medic has a large magazine size (50% more), movement speed, different arsenal, healing abilities that he doesn't need to heal himself and +75 armor bonus. suvivalist can't have a large magazine size and it's either speed or healing for him, which is something that the medic already has!

but it is true that he's actually a better jack-of-all-trades than the survivalist
Agreed
Again, I believe a proper, deeper, rework of its skill tree would improve the perk immensely

Agreed
 
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-I don't know honestly... I would say that on one hand it wouldn't hurt the balance too much to improve SWAT's recoil reduction or speed, but on the other hand, I do feel the perk is good as it is. It's a tanky bullet hose and one of the better trash cleaners. If we add his very helpful grenades, he's definitely a perk I'm always happy to have on my team.

-I get what you mean with the Incision, and to be fair... I thought since its inclusion that it was insanely OP. A medic shouldn't be able to dish out so much damage per shot. And if we add that he has extra ammo (compared to the sharpshooter), and still reloads pretty fast and can track opponent's heads... Yup, that's a meaty gun for what is supposedly a supportive class. I would personally scrap the weapon altogether, or at least make it functionally different.

-We can only agree on the survivalist, which is a perk I only play when I want to try ridiculous weapon combos. Yes, it's funny to have both an AA-12 and a flamethrower (for example) but nothing truly backs you up. Worse than that, as we mentioned, many skills actually rewards certain choices and not others ! It doesn't really help people to find any use for the survivalist. I believe it should be a perk made up of experimentation and hybridization. As in...What if you wanted to play a medic/firebug hybrid? A berserker/sharpshooter? This kind of ridiculous ideas. As it stands, it's just a way to stick to a playstyle, but worse than the actual perk...

-Well yes for the medic, but then the firebug kinda does so as well (he has an SMG, two ARs, a shotgun, a revolver...). Plus, even if the medic has multiple weapon "categories", he has very different skills. Sure, he's able to take out trash like a SWAT, but is he able to take down a fleshpound like a Support? Or reload as fast as a Commando? I would say he's more versatile, but not necessarily more effective. But as we said, he has the problem of being a very powerful perk on its own...Something that shouldn't be the case IMO. And yep, he IS the current jack-of-all-trade of the game. That's why I've been dying for a proper rework of both perks (Medic and Survivalist), to no avail.

-True about the armor, but then the SWAT also has tools that the medic doesn't have (even if he definitely backs it up with other stuff... again, a medic problem). For example, the SWAT has bigger mags. He can also stuns while the medic can merely "stumble". The SWAT also has a better DPS (due to its large mags AND fast RoF). So all in all, I'm not that mad that they both benefit from extra armor... It's even okay for the medic to be slightly tankier. But that should be his main goal : the medic should be the survivalist (litterally) of the team. Doing weak damage but being resourceful enough to keep himself and his team alive. I guess a similar approach to KF1 would be arguably better => having all his bonuses geared towards defense rather than offense. Again, I think the worst issue is the arsenal itself : even playing a fully "buff machine" medic, you can still hold your own with your powerful guns. As such, I believe they should be slightly nerfed too. And his skill tree : rebalanced.
 
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SWAT's recoil is fine, it's just the speed that I'm suggesting to be increased.
The medic is OP in the game, it's fine by me but other perks should not be that weak!
And Survivalist really needs a lookover to be honest, his exclusive weapons are expensive and have expensive ammo for them too. The low magazines are annoying with their high recoil.
 
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I agree, and it can be argued, that SWAT would definitely benefit from a movement speed boost. Recoil is fine as it is, frankly. Lastly, no one actually plays an entire game with the armor skills - you use them when you first spawn, then switch in-between waves.

Aleflippy is right in that you'd be a bad Medic if you're only focusing on killing stuff. Regardless of difficulty, their main job is to heal, not kill. So while they do have a good amount of versatility, this is off-set by doing lower damage than the perk to whom the weapon belongs, e.g.: Medics have Incision, but Sharpies will do more damage with a sniper rifle.

Survailist is meant to fill in for whatever role is needed but isn't available, on the fly such as mid-wave, e.g.: no Demo on the team, so you pick Demo skills/weapons, but also providing back-up heals. I do agree, though, that adjustments can be made to it.
 
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