Hope they will allow us to hip fire MG42

[2Lt.Horvath [6th AB]]

There were allready speaking about, MG squad and
The production of it have started 1942 there cant be many of them in stalingrad if even few. So i believe it wont be ingame, sorry guys.

Yet there's AVT40s and Mkb42s?

At this rate I don't think adding MG42s would be terribly unrealistic, in fact it's probably much more accurate historically then all the aforementioned weapons floating around.

Also, back on topic. The MG42s weight and rate of fire would really limit any hip fire capability, but as RO2 has proved with the MG34 it seems prefectly fine to run around like Rambo on steroids spraying down helpless Russians, ala that youtube video that everyone uses for this arguement.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

... and its the reason I use the pistol when I am moving around when playing the machine gunner. I don't want to contribute to what I feel is hokey Rambo-like behavior

 

[2Lt.Horvath [6th AB]]

... and its the reason I use the pistol when I am moving around when playing the machine gunner. I don't want to contribute to what I feel is hokey Rambo-like behavior

I salute you sir. I like running around with the pistol, makes me feel like an odd WW2 007 type.

 

[Krobar]

The way to fix the stupid MG hipping is to let players shoulder the MG.

And dislocate their shoulders?

It should be like RO1 where it has to be balanced on the hip and you move much slower.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

And dislocate their shoulders?

It should be like RO1 where it has to be balanced on the hip and you move much slower.

Nope, you wouldent dislocate your shoulder.

Let the players choose a drum magazine that they can shoulder, or a belt that they can only fire from the hip or is more clumsy in shouldering.

If this game is all about realism then MG'ers should be able to shoulder the MG instead of getting a more steady hip fire position. This will slow those players down as they move making running around hipping the MG less effective.

 

[slyder73]

I take it all the posters who are knocking hip fire mg are those who don't or can't hip fire it. I use it VERY effectively in room clearing and close quarters. In fact it's all I like doing with the MG. If it's in the training manual then I think you can't argue about realism... Tiger 2 I like ur suggestion about reloading, but not the stop fire. MAYBE fatigue could set in after a few seconds of semi-accurate hip shooting if that's realistic?

But the point is that this is NOT what was done. The MG team would be deployed to cover the advance of the rifle team or supporting SMG's as they approached the buildings that needed to be cleared. The room to room fighting did not include the MG firing from the hip to clear a room. SOrry gents, just wasn't happening in WW2 on the Eastern front. That is what grenades were for and they use those in GREAT abundance for just that, along with artillery and mortars etc.

For an MG to be carried by a single soldier up into a building in an urban combat situation where he'd be clearing rooms with it? That MIGHT have happened with a despondent, broken soldier suffering with the symptoms of what we know now as PTSD who just didn't care....but has no place in this game.

 

[DesiQ]

But the point is that this is NOT what was done. The MG team would be deployed to cover the advance of the rifle team or supporting SMG's as they approached the buildings that needed to be cleared. The room to room fighting did not include the MG firing from the hip to clear a room. SOrry gents, just wasn't happening in WW2 on the Eastern front. That is what grenades were for and they use those in GREAT abundance for just that, along with artillery and mortars etc.

I second this for tactical reasons. The MG in battle has the ability to command the field of fire and pin enemy soldiers. It makes more tactical sense to place it where it can support friendly movements, or hinder enemy movement.

But there's also a practical reason why using an MG room-to-room would have been a bad idea. Each rifle company only got four LMGs (in the case of the Red Army after 1942), and if you took it with you to clear a building and died inside, then guess what — you've now lost a quarter of your company's firepower, and given the enemy a brand new toy.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

But the point is that this is NOT what was done. The MG team would be deployed to cover the advance of the rifle team or supporting SMG's as they approached the buildings that needed to be cleared. The room to room fighting did not include the MG firing from the hip to clear a room. SOrry gents, just wasn't happening in WW2 on the Eastern front. That is what grenades were for and they use those in GREAT abundance for just that, along with artillery and mortars etc.

For an MG to be carried by a single soldier up into a building in an urban combat situation where he'd be clearing rooms with it? That MIGHT have happened with a despondent, broken soldier suffering with the symptoms of what we know now as PTSD who just didn't care....but has no place in this game.

I agree. This is one of those cases where having something like this in game encourages very unrealistic behavior, from too many players. Just because it is possible doesn't mean it should be allowed. If its continued to be allowed, at the very least throw some momentum and accuracy penalties at the player.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

Whilst hip firing the MG42 (& MG34) was taught, it was hardly ever used in combat, and that quite simply because hip firing any weapon is very ineffective, and esp. a MG.

It was likely only done in extreme emergencies during CQC if there was no time to deploy the weapon and the MGer hadn't unholstered his sidearm, or as mentioned for flushing enemies out of a building where no'one is firing back at you.

Ingame I think they should add some mouse movement delay for MGers hipfiring their MG, whilst deployed mouse movement will ofcourse still be instant. This will also give a better impression of carrying around and trying to aim a 12 kg machinegun from the hip.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

Ok, now I am gonna get serious.

How about we take a step back from the problem here and think for a moment.

Problem: People hip MG's like they were all Rambo.
Solution = make it a PITA to hip fire?

nope!

The real problem here is that it is a 'PITA' to deploy your MG ( Position must be ordained by der Fuhrer or Stalin to be deployed on ). Also the deployment animations have you sticking your head up just to try and put your MG on something, instead of just staying low and deploying, then going up when you choose to do so.

I've lost track of the number of times I have died because of:
- inability to deploy while prone on flat terrain.
- inability to deploy while crouched with my weapon over a flat object.
- buggy cannot turn further messages when little to nothing is around you.
- MG bipod clipping into the terrain so that you cant even raise it to fire above the terrain.
- Deployment animation has me sticking my head up when I wouldent irl.

So frankly as someone who has his lvl 50 MG 34, why the F@#$@#$ not just run around like a friggen rambo? Most of the maps are so CQC that they shouldent even bother having MG's on them. Not to mention I never stayed in school long enough to get my diploma in MG deployment, or my PHD in 'random objects that look great to deploy on but Der Fuhrer sagt NEIN, DU KANNST NICHT!'

Want some examples?

Spoiler!

Spoiler!

Spoiler!

If you really want to make it more discouraged then tweak the respawn times for each class time so that rifleman respawn quickest and special classes like the commander and MG's are delayed.


EDIT:

On top of all the other problems with deployed MG's theres the fact that the surpression effects are crap. As stated by myself elsewhere, I can be guarding a corner, cut down three guys coming around, and people will still try and lean out snipe me. The MG jumps around so much so that occasionaly my 3 round bursts miss and I have been sniped by people who just had 3 bullets pass within inches of their bodies. Then they make that shot completely unaffected.

People play any class however it is best played, they want to maximize it. Thats why you see SMGS trying to get closer, rifles trying to keep their distance, and snipers never going into CQC, It's just common sense. And right now the most optimal way to play the MG, aside from maps where you can deploy, is to get in very tight and close and go whor-rrrammmbooooo.

 

[slyder73]

If you really want to make it more discouraged then tweak the respawn times for each class time so that rifleman respawn quickest and special classes like the commander and MG's are delayed.

.

This is perhaps the best idea that would make sense in the game that I've seen yet. What better way to encourage riflemen than give them a very short respawn time and encourage the MG for example to be more cautious and play more effectively for the role than to give that role a very long respawn time.
In my mind I'm thinking riflemen 10 seconds and MG all the way up to 30 seconds. It gives value to staying alive and using the role more historically.
Same can be done for assault or Team Leader, longer spawns for roles that were not cannon fodder.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

Yep, and it would also stop people from taking commander for the weapon and playing like an assault trooper.

 

[Atomskytten]

Hip firing machinegunners a problem and/or unrealistic? No they are neither a problem nor unrealistic.
The aiming mechanics, targeting speed, recoil, accuracy and effectiveness are the most realistic rendition of MG hip firing in a FPS - ever. Speaking from personal experiences I must say that it will be hard to make them more realistic than they are now and that TWI really did a splendid job with regards to MGs in close combat.

The only reason for hip firing MG'ers are so effective is not because the players behind the MG's are better players but because the team on the receiving end doesn't have what it takes to stop the machinegunners from ramboing - in short the problem, if any, lies with the players getting killed by hip firing machinegunners...
This game is not a military simulator so whether real life tactics are used or not is irrelevant to the game as it is about having fun, capping objectives and killing other players avatars, it is not about completing real world objectives and missions and people should bear that in mind when complaining about 'unrealistic' or 'gamey' tactics etc. etc.

 

[FBOTheLiuetenant]

I think its already unrealistic enough with out having a mg squad let alone having people run around with hipped mgs.

It is totally unrealistic to allow players to do something that is physically possible. How about rather than the "realism" arguement, someone provide a suggestion of how to do something that is well within the realm of possiblity (hip/shoulder fire an MG42 for example).

Something that I would like to see added would be the mass of a weapon taken into account. In Arma II the size and weight of a gun has a noticeable impact on how quickly you can move it around. Or to implement a more drastic weapon collision system that would actually put larger/longer weapons at a disadvantage in tight spaces. No one is arguing that hip firing an MG42 is practical, but it is entirely possible to do. If RO2 wants to have realistic weapon handling than MGs shouldnt be limited to only firing while deployed.

The biggest problem I think, is that the MG34 is easier to hipfire than it is to deploy and fire the proper way.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

Ok, now I am gonna get serious.

How about we take a step back from the problem here and think for a moment.

Problem: People hip MG's like they were all Rambo.
Solution = make it a PITA to hip fire?

nope!

The real problem here is that it is a 'PITA' to deploy your MG ( Position must be ordained by der Fuhrer or Stalin to be deployed on ). Also the deployment animations have you sticking your head up just to try and put your MG on something, instead of just staying low and deploying, then going up when you choose to do so.

I've lost track of the number of times I have died because of:
- inability to deploy while prone on flat terrain.
- inability to deploy while crouched with my weapon over a flat object.
- buggy cannot turn further messages when little to nothing is around you.
- MG bipod clipping into the terrain so that you cant even raise it to fire above the terrain.
- Deployment animation has me sticking my head up when I wouldent irl.

So frankly as someone who has his lvl 50 MG 34, why the F@#$@#$ not just run around like a friggen rambo? Most of the maps are so CQC that they shouldent even bother having MG's on them. Not to mention I never stayed in school long enough to get my diploma in MG deployment, or my PHD in 'random objects that look great to deploy on but Der Fuhrer sagt NEIN, DU KANNST NICHT!'

Want some examples?

Spoiler!

Spoiler!

Spoiler!

If you really want to make it more discouraged then tweak the respawn times for each class time so that rifleman respawn quickest and special classes like the commander and MG's are delayed.


EDIT:

On top of all the other problems with deployed MG's theres the fact that the surpression effects are crap. As stated by myself elsewhere, I can be guarding a corner, cut down three guys coming around, and people will still try and lean out snipe me. The MG jumps around so much so that occasionaly my 3 round bursts miss and I have been sniped by people who just had 3 bullets pass within inches of their bodies. Then they make that shot completely unaffected.

People play any class however it is best played, they want to maximize it. Thats why you see SMGS trying to get closer, rifles trying to keep their distance, and snipers never going into CQC, It's just common sense. And right now the most optimal way to play the MG, aside from maps where you can deploy, is to get in very tight and close and go whor-rrrammmbooooo.

The MG34 sadly is one of the weapons ingame, along with the Mkb42 & PPSh41, that suffer from excessive recoil, esp. in terms of muzzle climb. In reality there is very little if any muzzle climb with this weapon when operated in a prone position, and it doesn't jump nearly as much as it does ingame either.

 

[*Gasangriff*]

Yeah, is anyone complaining about how unbalanced hipping with the 34 is right now? The 42 is gonna be the same, only even harder to control.

Is Mg42 confirmed then?

 

[DesiQ]

Not to mention I never stayed in school long enough to get my diploma in MG deployment, or my PHD in 'random objects that look great to deploy on but Der Fuhrer sagt NEIN, DU KANNST NICHT!'

HAHA!

I too am very disappointed by how the deployment system is handled. I thought the game would be allowing me to deploy on pretty much any horizontal geometry object, but obviously not. Can't deploy on desks inside rooms, can't deploy on spools. Can't deploy on some tank carcasses, and even some sandbags disallow it (like the sandbags at the corner of the wall on the North side of the church in Spartanovka).

You spend so much time fighting with the environment and with the deploy/cover mechanics.