HoE positions

[AlbusPluvia]

So, as I'm starting to frequent HoE with friends (instead of pubbers) more, I want to ask what the positions are in HoE. I don't trust random pubbers so I usually kite as a medic/zerk or (OMG I GOT LEVEL 6 XD) Sharpshooter, but since I'm going to be playing with my friends in a not-as-kitey way, what does each class do and what should each class kill?

I'm gonna post what I've seen/done so far, so correct me if I'm wrong

Berzerker - Tanks damage if a FP/SC rages, increases zed time, is at the front-lines killing gorefasts and clots.

Commando - Semi-Auto trash killer, shouldn't bother with sirens or husks unless in trouble, NEVER kills FP/SC or use full-auto unless it's raged/an emergency.
Any tips on ammo conservation with this class? Semi-auto headshots are good, but I feel like I run lower on ammo on the later waves.

Sharpshooter - Takes out everything and everyone. 9mm for gores and below, LAR for everything bigger, and if you're not good enough, use the m14EBR for SC/FP. Don't waste LAR shots, and try to headshot as usual.

Demolitions - Takes out groups of trash, helps with the big guys using pipes. Nade spam only in emergencies, does not help with Husks (takes 3 nades to kill at my level), is careful with juggling sirens, ammo, and SC. A gigantic FP killer, you use this guy to take them out when your sharpy is busy with scrakes.

Support Specialist - NOT SURE. Q.Q It's one of my favorite classes, but has too low ammo to kill trash (unless in a big group where the demo might take it), tries on conserve ammo for BIG BURSTS of damage, can take out everything in the game, is great against raged specimen, and has kind of a weird niche role I haven't figured out yet. Good for welding if you need it of course. Help?
AA-12 vs HSG?

Medic - The most important person on the team, I run MP5, MP7, LAR which makes weapon switching awkward. 2 mediguns for a little help with trash like crawlers on the zerk as well as gigantic heals, and the LAR as main support against almost everything. (2 shot husks and sirens) Tanks like a boss.

Did I get that right? And what loadouts do you recommend? (How do you do that suicide respawn in one wave to get level 6 weapons on the same server?)

My loadouts are:

Zerk - Kat + Axe + Lar
Mando - FN FAL + Scar or FN FAL + AK47
Sharpy - LAR + M14EBR
Demo - M79 + M32 + Pipes
SS - Shotgun + AA12/HSG + Machete (I haven't figured out which I like more, too low level to equip both. Machete for flinching SC)
Medic - LAR + MP5 + MP7, sometimes I get MP5 + M7A3, and I'm open to new loadouts.

 

[~Ren~]

Commando - Semi-Auto trash killer, shouldn't bother with sirens or husks unless in trouble, NEVER kills FP/SC or use full-auto unless it's raged/an emergency.
Any tips on ammo conservation with this class? Semi-auto headshots are good, but I feel like I run lower on ammo on the later waves.

Along with the Firebug you are the main trash killer and sirens and husks should become a priority if an FP/Scrake appears with them, the husk can hit the Sharp/Demo throwing off their aim, just put a few shots into him so he concentrates on you rather than the perks that have to kill the FP/Scrake.

Commando is my main perk and my weapon loadout never changes, I use AK as my main weapon and SCAR as backup, both weapons are on full auto but you should be able to use it semi auto during each wave, only full auto if things start to get hectic.

With regards to ammunition, I've ran out less than 10 times in over 1,400 hours play time and that was because of my position on the map or having to finish off a Scrake/Fleshpound because he's about to kill another team member, if you're killing the majority of the zeds from one or two areas you will use a lot of ammunition but it's very rare that I use all my AK ammunition during a wave. In the later waves, especially on HoE the team might be low on ammunition and your SCAR/FN-FAL will come in very handy for the rest of the team, it also gives support a little breathing space if they are low on ammunition during the wave and want to save it for any surprises.

I've answered Commando as that's my main perk but I'm sure others will reply with more info for you

 

[Splatpope]

Okay so perk by perk :


-Zerk: Shouldn't tank. What he should rather do it pickup agro and lead the dangerous stuff away from the team. In all cases, think of the berzerker as a giant wall that absorbs zeds : his best position would then be roaming on side routes to reduce the main zed flow. I've never agreed with a berzerker staying on the main frontline because of the fact that he simply doesn't have the required DPS to be efficient as a stationary unit.

Try AK instead of LAR, maybe you'll like it more; it pretty much has the same abilities.

-Commando : In fact, mandoes are deadly agaisn't sirens and husks. A handful of headshots will take care of them and you should do so if you have the occasion (ie nothing weaker is in view). Concerning ammo, you shouldn't really end up low, unless your teammates are really doing nothing. Either because they are bad or because you shoot too much
Try to get a katana from a zerk so you can flinch scrakes in emergencies, that can be a life-saver.

-Sharpshooter : Well, using the M14 on scrakes is a rather bad idea, so feel free to stunlock them with the LAR (I dont think I understood your sentence, though). Also a big problem with people that use the 9mm as their bread and butter is that they'll regularly get an empty mag whenever they must deal a lot of damage quickly, and the time taken for switching generally ends up in "Pubby was eaten by the Gorefast".


-Demo : I'll quote Jester here "You should be the immediate damage spike that intervenes when people are not in position to dish it." Basically you're the failsafe whenever someone's reloading. The rest was spot on.

-Support : Ditch the AA12. On HoE, it simply isn't worth the money to use it on trash and it simply is too weak to use on big zeds. Replace the machete by an axe and you'll have a handy weapon to take on isolated zeds. Get comfortable with the scrake and fleshpound hsg combos and you'll become unstoppable.

-Medic : spot on. Same thing as commando, try to get a katana from a zerk as it will let you get aggro/flinch big zeds very easily, thus improving your tanking.

 

[karsey22]

I'm not sure where to start....

So my advice is to play HoE more and you're going to answer a lot of your own questions. A lot of your ideas or questions sound indicative of general inexperience on HoE. At this point you know the maps, you know the proper weapons to use, you know which weapons are effective on which specimens. Load out isn't that important. People like to say things like 'the aa12 is crap' or 'claymore is stupid compared to carrying axe+katana' but the truth is you'll find ones you like and dislike and in what situations certain load outs are more advantageous than others. I know some people who role with some pretty derpy load outs and are very successful with them. It's because they have strong fundamental skills.

What really separates a high skilled player from a low skilled is their decision making. When, where, what to shoot, or run, where they are standing on the map, specimen priority, etc., and making these good decisions consistently. This only comes with experience. There aren't any golden rules like 'commando never shoots husk'. There are certainly going to be situations as a commando where you are shooting a husk. You should always play to your perks advantages as a general rule but the game is too dynamic to lay down solid rules about everything.

If you're goal is just to win, you'll want 4 supports, an m99 sharp shooter and a medic all facing one way towards a choke where all the specimens walk in. Just use on-perk weapons and shoot forward until everything's dead. Make sure you don't get stuck at the trader at the start of the waves and you'll probably win most HoE games that way.

If your goal is to become a good player who can solo out those waves in a clutch moment, or pull off multiple combos over multiple perks to deal with every specimen and solo patriarch you really just have to play. There isn't any advice you can read that's going to turn you into a pro player. Not to mention you'll find and see load outs and tactics that are interestingly effective just while playing on Hoe pub servers- and it's better when you see it in action rather than someone posting on a forum 'hey commando with m32+mk23+scar is pretty good' or 'just uppercut the scrakes with the hunting shot gun'.

There are too many perk specific tips to spew out and list them on here because many of them are dependent on too many different factors (what map, what perk, what are your teammates perks, how much money, what wave, etc etc). Unless you ask something incredibly specific it's hard not to give general advice like 'commando deals with trash and does it best with the assault rifles I use semi auto and it works and I run out of ammo on full auto so full auto is bad ' or 'demo deals with fleshpounds incredibly easy with m32/frag combos, or a couple pipes'

You could have just practiced the demo combos for 5 hours on testmap. You know them inside and out. Pro demo now right?

You're in game, You take down that first wave 10 fleshpound with ease but you accidentally raged 2 other surprise fp's from around the corner. there's 2 sirens, a husk, and sharp is in the middle of dealing with a scrake. two teammates go down, and it's time to run. The trash is pushing forward. What do you do?

Do you finish off the fps? Run away with your knife out? Make sure those sirens go down and then run while laying pipes? Everyone was playing their 'HoE Position' but things went wrong!

The answer to that situation depends on too much to say on a forum: The map, where you were holding, where the specimens were, and what your surviving teammates were doing in the midst of the panic. But being in situations like that over and over teaches you to make the right decisions in order to survive.

I guess I kind of went off on a rant but here's the simple answers you'll get from most people to your q's.

Firebug: kills everything under husk. Simultaneously makes everyone's job harder in most camp situations.

Demolitions: crowd control, fleshpound removal

Commando: Everything under scrake, struggles a little more with sirens and husks but definitely not something to ignore.

Support: can kill everything but often isn't the best choice of perk to deal with the big guys initially. Lays out the hurt, but not good with being swarmed. Most efficient at killing things coming from one direction.

Sharpshooter: Again, can kill everything, but requires precision. Specializes in scrake removal. Role mostly depends on what weapons you're holding. pistols and xbow: pretty versatile. m99 - big guys and minimal trash with your 9mm. m14/lar - medium range trash and heavy control.

Beserker: Stay off the front line most of the time (yes there's exceptions) - you're usually just in the way and make a better door than a window. Your strengths are survivability, speed, and melee damage. Use that in any way that doesn't hinder the rest of your team. Usually it means holding the back or area that specimens are trickling in while the majority of your team holds off the main influx of zeds with their ranged attacks.

Medic: Keep everyone alive. That sometimes involves tanking, killing trash, whatever. You are the life saver. Your job isn't 'stand at the back and shoot med darts'. You don't just heal hp, you prevent it from being lost in the first place if you can. As long as people are alive, you're winning.

So go shoot some zeds

 

[Althamus]

My loadouts are:

Zerk - Kat + Axe + Lar
Mando - FN FAL + Scar or FN FAL + AK47
Sharpy - LAR + M14EBR
Demo - M79 + M32 + Pipes
SS - Shotgun + AA12/HSG + Machete (I haven't figured out which I like more, too low level to equip both. Machete for flinching SC)
Medic - LAR + MP5 + MP7, sometimes I get MP5 + M7A3, and I'm open to new loadouts.

Zerk: Kat + Axe + M79 + Mk23 is also a fun one, although has a longer setup time.
Sharp: Xbow, Mk23, Katana. I used to run LAR/EBR, but since the Xbow reload speed has halved, Xbow is so easy now, plus with Mk23 and katana you can kite pretty well if needed.
Demo: M32 + Katana + MP7M + Pipes / M32 + AK47. The first loadout is my ultimate supporting loadout, able to nade when needed, kill a few trash from range or close and heal pretty good. I obviously don't spam nades with a demo, so just an M32 suits me fine. M32 + AK I use when I'm likely to need to kill more things, or there's a medic around. AK because you can 1shot decap, and it's on #3!
Support: PSG, HSG, Machete, M79 / PSG, HSG, Katana, Mk23. M79 is a great weapon to use offperk, melee weapon is essential for scrake killing. HSG is awesome ace in the hole, plus doesn't need to reload if you doublebarrel it. Mk23 just gives a little more ammo and lets you 1shot headshot stuff.

 

[TheMutant]

[...]
-Support : Ditch the AA12. On HoE, it simply isn't worth the money to use it on trash and it simply is too weak to use on big zeds. Replace the machete by an axe and you'll have a handy weapon to take on isolated zeds. Get comfortable with the scrake and fleshpound hsg combos and you'll become unstoppable.
[...]

Everything you wrote is correct, except that. AA12 is indeed very expensive but it is worth it and you can afford it when you start as sharpshooter and sell the xBow then! This weapon is vital, as it has much DPS and a large mag. You can push back large amounts of zeds whenever sth. goes wrong.
Axe is not worth it, machete is enough to one-hit trash and weighs only 1 unit. The scrake combo is harder with it as you MUST hit his head to flinch lock him, but it is doable.

My loadout suggestion for Support is:
AA12+HSG+MK23+Machete

I never had any issues using this loadout. Use MK23 and aim for the head to one-hit trash, swap to AA12 if there are too many (aim on upper chest to achieve some head damage) and use HSG when several medium zeds are in line of fire (sirens, husks). Take out single trash zeds with machete to save ammo.
The rest is practise, practise and again practise.

 

[AlbusPluvia]

Cool, thanks guys :3 This is awesome
(And this is gonna sound nooby but I finally killed Patriarch with Claymore only So proud *sniff on Hard)

The HSG combos are a little confusing for me. You can one-shot a sc without a melee hit using the jump technique, and with the melee hit with the crouch. Which does more damage? Which is more efficient? (And how do I keep my shots from passing through the target? I'll shoot a close-up scrake after a flinch and BOOM! Complete miss)

 

[TheMutant]

Imagine that every monster is surrounded by three invisible collision zones, one for the lower body, one for the upper body and one for the head. As the shotgun pellets have the ability to penetrate you can hit several collision zones with one shot, that's why the crouch technique deals much more damage.

So, if a monster is very close to you and you shoot right straight at it the pellets spawn inside these collision zones, that's why the engine can't register a hit and the shot doesn't deal any damage at all. Crouching or jumping prevents the shots from spawning inside those collision zones.

PS: I never saw anyone one-hitting a HoE 6p scrake with the jump technique. It does also deal more damage, but the crouch technique seems to be much more efficient.

 

[hoodedthefox]

Ok support has plenty of ammo if you can handle yourself. AA hunting mk23. That gives you run and gun with mk and the ability to take any specimen with the hunting aa. You piss off scrake's until they charge get a few more shots in and when they are very close double shot them. Fp's same idea but more shots to kill from aa. You can take everything else out but you havew to line it up and wait for crowds. The hsg is useless as is the combat shotty. Pump shotgun is great for first 4-6 rounds depending on your skill.

As to the melee support combos, I say no. Although they have some great tricks to taking out the big stuff it's too risky and way to easy to screw up.

I can teach you how to utilize a few of these classes better so shoot me a msg steam names hoodedthefox, if that doesnt work then let me know might have changed it at one point.

 

[TheMutant]

[...]
As to the melee support combos, I say no. Although they have some great tricks to taking out the big stuff it's too risky and way to easy to screw up.
[...]

That's not true, a good support player should master the melee combo. It is ONLY for scrakes and useful if your team died and you're left alone with some scrakes.
Furthermore, in some cases you can relieve your team, for instance, if there are too many scrakes at once and the rest of the team can't care about all of them. So it's good for emergency cases, otherwise you should not touch them and care about the stuff around the big ones.
So, being able to perform that is definately not a disadvantage, as you might need it in some cases.

 

[hoodedthefox]

or you can conserve ammo on the better guns and not use an axe thats only good for scrakes. Scrakes are not hard will a full support loadout, just learn how to handle yourself.

 

[Althamus]

PS: I never saw anyone one-hitting a HoE 6p scrake with the jump technique. It does also deal more damage, but the crouch technique seems to be much more efficient.

Reason for this is because of lag. If you try it on a singleplayer game that you're hosting, in theory it should be just as effective as crouching, but on multiplayer games with anything but the smallest amount of lag, the server can register you firing a split-second before or after the jump, rather at the crest of it, with the result that instead of firing at the scrake's head, you empty the HSG into his toes.

Also, I still reckon the PSG has a lot to be said for it. Reloading shell by shell means that unless you're getting swarmed under, you'll never get stuck in a reload animation. It's my weapon of choice over the AA for crowd-clearing anyday.
Plus, I like builds which cost very little, since if a wave goes horribly, I want to be able to rearm myself with very little money.

re: Scrake melee combos
I'd say it's very useful to be able to do them. If you're kiting and run around a corner to see a scrake, it's so handy to be able to take him out in 1-2 seconds, since you won't have the luxury of taking them out in the 3-5 seconds it takes with an AA+HSG.
Plus, pretty much any support combo I've seen can carry a machete, and if you take a PSG+HSG+Mk23, you can also afford to carry a katana, which is a great weapon in that it can kill trash easy, scrake combo easily, and doesn't weigh much. Only downside is you need to have a friendly zerker who can buy it for you (or be loaded).

 

[Liberty]

You piss off scrake's until they charge get a few more shots in and when they are very close double shot them. Fp's same idea but more shots to kill from aa.

It should be noted that while this can work on normal and hard, its terrible advice for a player jumping into a suicidal/HoE game.

 

[hoodedthefox]

Not if you're a level six and actually belong there. Noobs don't try this at home, plus they cant even carry both the aa and hunting. AS far as lag some of us don't have 100+ pings and can actually do things like that.

 

[karsey22]

Ok support has plenty of ammo if you can handle yourself. AA hunting mk23. That gives you run and gun with mk and the ability to take any specimen with the hunting aa. You piss off scrake's until they charge get a few more shots in and when they are very close double shot them. Fp's same idea but more shots to kill from aa. You can take everything else out but you havew to line it up and wait for crowds. The hsg is useless as is the combat shotty. Pump shotgun is great for first 4-6 rounds depending on your skill.

As to the melee support combos, I say no. Although they have some great tricks to taking out the big stuff it's too risky and way to easy to screw up.

I can teach you how to utilize a few of these classes better so shoot me a msg steam names hoodedthefox, if that doesnt work then let me know might have changed it at one point.

The scrake uppercut kill can be practiced until you are able to get it pretty much every time. Same as the fleshpound combos. They do have risk, like any combo by any perk, but as long as you are aware of the risks you can either eliminate them or call for help (ie, 2 sirens show up with the fleshpound, scrake is surrounded by 20 crawlers, etc).

Your strategy of emptying aa12 and hunting into the scrakes and fleshpounds is far more risky than any speed kill combo and a full drum of aa12 and a hunting shot gun blast does NOT kill a 6man health fleshpound.

Not only that, but it requires about 12-15 aa12 shots along with the hunting shot gun double blast to kill the scrake, or if you use a jump shot with the hunting shotgun, around 8-10 aa12 shots to do reliably (it can be done with no aa12 and just hunting shotgun, but this requires low ping and high precision, and is very risky, might as well use the melee flinch method). Not only is this hard on the ammo, it requires a lot more space and takes more time than the flinch+chinshot combo.

Pump, HSG-1, and Combat shotgun are also far from being useless. They have their own drawbacks and advantages, just like the aa12, and all can be used very successfully.

 

[hoodedthefox]

Sucks to have bad ping. I'm glad I can handle my gun with my low ping, or is it that you haven't practiced it enough?

 

[Liberty]

Dear Mr. AA12 hero.

You are bad and should feel bad for posting advice.

While it is possible at low pings to rage scrakes with an AA12 and pull a jump shot with the Hunting shotgun, there is a much smaller margin for error involved with the jump, when compared to the chin shot / flinch.

Also, because you are bad, you completely ignored the fact your way takes a much larger chunk of your ammo pool.

Basically your way: higher risk + more ammo consumption = Bad.

Finally, because I think you are mostly just trolling, you didn't address your awful advice when dealing with FP's as it was pointed out even using a full drum of AA12 ammo + a Hunting shotgun blast isn't enough to drop a 6 man HOE FP.

Please refrain from posting advice in the future.

Thanks in advance
-A player trying to avoid seeing more bad AA12 heroes in pub games.

 

[karsey22]

Sucks to have bad ping. I'm glad I can handle my gun with my low ping, or is it that you haven't practiced it enough?

What are you referring to specifically? If you have a method of taking scrakes and fp as support that is superior to the combos and flinch+chinshot techniques please show us what you've practiced. I think we're all for learning better tactics.

But if you're still talking about pissing them off with aa12 and then hunting shotgunning when they get close.... It's just bad advice for a fleshpound. For scrakes - I'm assuming you're jump-shotting downwards onto the scrake because this is where your "I have low ping and can handle my gun" part is relevant. Which is great - if you can jump shot down a scrake with the hunting shot gun every time the more power to you. The thing is, this requires a VERY low ping, and if you're off by a little, you get sawed. - And the aa12 to piss it off is an unnecessary risk and waste of ammo.

Here's what the jump-shot is for anyone reading:

sup3 - YouTube

The reason this isn't advocated as a reliable method of taking on scrakes because it depends heavily on server latency. It becomes a little more reliable when you put a few shots into it's head - enough to soften it up but not enough to rage it onto yourself, as seen here:

support - YouTube

 

[Liberty]

I'm sensing some major butthurt. Sorry boys if you can't handle the hard time then gtfo. It's called use your brain and be adaptive.

We're still waiting to see you handle 6 man HoE FP's with AA12 spam, since you know how to handle your guns so well.


I'm more than willing to see a new better way of handling SC's and FP's. So far one takes more ammo and relies heavily on your ping (Making it more dangerous), the other remains a mystery hidden behind less than clever quips suggesting you're a better player.

I don't see how you'd think anyone is upset or stung over what has transpired, anyone except you. You gave some advice that makes you come off like a bad player, you were called on it, multiple times, and pretty much stood behind "Nuh uh, I'm right, I'm just more better than you" type defenses. At this point, you're pretty much running through the book of internet troll posts and are about one away from "umad bro". Save yourself the embarassment. Better yet? Is there anything more satisfying than proving someone wrong on the internet? Post up some examples of taking out 6 man HOE FP's spamming the AA12 and finishing with a HSG blast.

 

[Althamus]

I'm kinda shocked at people who have alternative ways to deal with FPs as a support on harder difficulties. Using nades and a HSG (or alternate means of raging him) is incredibly easy tactic once you've practised a bit, and (bar sirens) has a very high success rate. I'd class it way waaaay easier than doing the HSG scrakekill trick.