Hey Ramm-Jaeger what happened to hero status & MkB42H/AVT40 being rare weapons?

  • Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/
Status
Not open for further replies.

Nenjin

Grizzled Veteran
Apr 30, 2009
3,879
480
83
Sub-Level 12
Everybody wants to be as big as Activision, but only a few can, and most fail ... period. There's a lot to be said for catering to a niche and thriving (in a smaller but still profitable way) for many years.

Or hey. Maybe they just wanted to release a full-fledged game on the open market, a true "mainstream" game (and I mean that in the recognition sense, not the game play sense.)

They made the (very arrogant IMO) mistake of calling out BF3 and CoD as franchises. They did what devs with big dreams do, and they get too in love with their own product, it rubs on off on the fan base, and then EVERYONE has a rude awakening come release day.
 

Oghier

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 4, 2011
18
3
0
As someone new to the RO series, I think the game is fantastic. It is not without flaws, but I really appreciate the following:

- Combat is unforgiving of mistakes. One bullet from any weapon will kill you, so you need to learn to move.

- Combat rewards teamwork. Suppression, smoke grenades and the like make a huge difference. Lone-wolves aren't nearly as useful as grunts who follow orders and get in the cap zones.

- Graphics/ Sounds are excellent. In particular, the sounds are quite immersive.

- The guns feel good, and provide quite different experiences. At this point, I have tried every gun, from bolts to assault rifles to anti-tank weapons. I have settled on the basic bolt as my weapon of choice, as I find it to be the most fun.

- The guns feel balanced. Many will disagree here, but I simply don't find the assault rifles overwhelming. They're better, but the recoil prevents them from being the unquestionably best choice.

- The setting is great. It's nice to play a game on the front that actually decided the war ;)

There are flaws, but TW seems to be making rapid progress. Crashes are rare for me now (as opposed to late beta, when I crashed constantly). I assume they'll fix stats, polish the maps etc.

I'm very happy with the game. I just wish I were a better shot ;)
 

Stahlhelmii

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 16, 2011
721
401
0
Or hey. Maybe they just wanted to release a full-fledged game on the open market, a true "mainstream" game (and I mean that in the recognition sense, not the game play sense.)

They made the (very arrogant IMO) mistake of calling out BF3 and CoD as franchises. They did what devs with big dreams do, and they get too in love with their own product, it rubs on off on the fan base, and then EVERYONE has a rude awakening come release day.

Agreed, but the fact remains that they essentially kept assuring the fan base that everything would remain true to the core of RO, with a few exceptions (heroes with Mkb43, etc.) which were less realistic but in such small numbers that they would not really effect overall game play to much of a degree. And, I think it's been shown that they KNEW that not to be the case while making those assurances. I have a bit of a problem with that.
 

Nenjin

Grizzled Veteran
Apr 30, 2009
3,879
480
83
Sub-Level 12
And, I think it's been shown that they KNEW that not to be the case while making those assurances. I have a bit of a problem with that.
I can appreciate the sense of being lied to.

But now I'm going to get realistic on you.

1. They believe the game, from relaxed realism down to the most hardcore it's going to get after they're done balancing it (whenever that is), represents the same core that RO did. Either you believe that....or you don't. And if you don't, staying on the forums to badger them about is the equivalent of a hate ****. People will need to have their catharsis and move on, I guess. It's the ill will and the lingering sense of "**** you!" from the fans that makes their very long goodbye hard to listen to.

2. If in the end what breaks the game and it's fun for you is the distribution of rare and special things...then I'm sorry, but you're cutting off the nose to spite the face, ya know?
 

20.PzGr.Fleck

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 16, 2007
298
116
0
34
Actually it's the lying that pisses me off too.

There are entire chunks of the game they were going on and on about that are just flat out missing. I have no doubt the reason for this isn't that Tripwire are dicks (though maybe they are... who knows :p) but that they bit off waaaaaay more than they could chew. As soon as I saw the condition of the beta I knew the final release was not nearly going to live up to what they said.

Compared to RO1 RO:HOS is pretty dang good. It doesn't feel clunky or unwieldy, it flows pretty well and as soon as we get some decent maps (THAT AREN'T RO1 REHASHES PLEASE, TRIPWIRE) and get rid of that unrealistic, damning Mkb.42 I think I'll enjoy the game quite a bit more.

That said, RO:HOS sucks compared to what they said it would be. The annoyance of the fanbase is purely the fault of Tripwire.

Oops

(For the record, had they said "we don't have time for this, but it will be included in coming expansions" I have no doubt the fans would have been fine with it ;))
 

Stahlhelmii

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 16, 2011
721
401
0
I can appreciate the sense of being lied to.

But now I'm going to get realistic on you.

1. They believe the game, from relaxed realism down to the most hardcore it's going to get after they're done balancing it (whenever that is), represents the same core that RO did. Either you believe that....or you don't. And if you don't, staying on the forums to badger them about is the equivalent of a hate ****. People will need to have their catharsis and move on, I guess. It's the ill will and the lingering sense of "**** you!" from the fans that makes their very long goodbye hard to listen to.

2. If in the end what breaks the game and it's fun for you is the distribution of rare and special things...then I'm sorry, but you're cutting off the nose to spite the face, ya know?

It's not just that. It's the fact that automatic weapons are handed out as freely as candy at Uncle Pervie's house, and 9 times out of 10 -- especially if a server isn't full -- there are more automatic weapons on both sides than bolt action, not even accounting for lmg's and semi-autos. It's the fact that a player can cheat death up to 3 times, with 2 bandages and a long, protracted final bleedout. There's more "perks" than COD, but at least COD makes them "perks" - here, they're a permanent feature for everyone (bandaging/bleedout), or at least half of the players in a game (full auto weapons).
 

pii_smith

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 25, 2011
118
28
0
Well, I certainly won't stop playing HoS for BF3...

SWTOR or Diablo 3 though, we'll have to see about.

SWTOR.... ughhh just thinking about those ingame "trailers", which look really bad and not very promising concerning gameplay makes me shudder. In the best case it's gonna be WoW in the star wars universe, please don't make me think about the worst case. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sir Roderick

Nenjin

Grizzled Veteran
Apr 30, 2009
3,879
480
83
Sub-Level 12
It's not just that. It's the fact that automatic weapons are handed out as freely as candy at Uncle Pervie's house, and 9 times out of 10 -- especially if a server isn't full -- there are more automatic weapons on both sides than bolt action, not even accounting for lmg's and semi-autos. It's the fact that a player can cheat death up to 3 times, with 2 bandages and a long, protracted final bleedout. There's more "perks" than COD, but at least COD makes them "perks" - here, they're a permanent feature for everyone (bandaging/bleedout), or at least half of the players in a game (full auto weapons).
"The Litany" of stuff that isn't up to what we (and probably they) expected is long. But I refer you to everything I said above, including what's a polish point and what's not, where the groundwork has clearly been laid for more, and the simple fact we're at what? Release +6 is it?

(Let's also remember that they wanted a hell of a lot more CQC combat in RO:HoS than they had in RO1. In time we'll get to see how RO2 handles on maps designed with an RO1 ethic.)

If this were ANY other dev house, I would be wringing my hands I think, because that's a lot of stuff. But I think TWI has been saving all the dosh they've made in the last two years so they can baby sit this thing until they either fill all those bullet points to their satisfaction...(which we all hope is what you originally stated, guys!)....or they all have heart attacks from working too hard and broken marriages. Because that's what *I* expect out of them after being a fan this long.
 
Last edited:

Karnatakapunk

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 18, 2011
97
52
0
Hi. I am all new here, and never played RO Original. I bought this game with no expectations at all, bought it because a friend of mine told me.
I start playing in the release date, and i am already with like 70 hours of the game.I dont remember beeing so excited with a fps since Cod 2, wich was the only game i played HARD.
I am loving the game despits some flaws on the optimisation and some bugs. Now i start reading the forum and things about the game(never done it with other games).
Im all new at RO, but there are many things said by RO1 players, that i totally agree, in fact i am thinking buying the original red orchestra just to see how it worked.
I like the game and for me it has enormous potencial, but would like to see some adjustments old vets are demanding, like hero class (it would be awsome) , more sway when holding for many time, no stats....
I
 
Last edited:

smokeythebear

Grizzled Veteran
Nov 21, 2005
2,299
634
113
32
Sheppards house
It's funny the official 'mission statement' of RO1 was that to differentiate from other games by making the player feel like they are in a war not a war movie.

And then they took features from war movie games but didn't even implement then well, thus frustrating new players and old players alike.

Nenjin, you've been spouting so much praise that I'm starting to wonder if we've been playing the same game. You're acting like a fanboy who refuses to accept that people aren't content with the product they paid for and expected something different than what they got.

Well it's still an enjoyable game. I'm just turning off my brain for now when playing, and I will help out where I can when it comes to modding the game for an immersive and historically accurate experience.
 

Nenjin

Grizzled Veteran
Apr 30, 2009
3,879
480
83
Sub-Level 12
And for those of us who the inaccuracies and non-realism aren't sticking in our throats so bad, it's actually turning out to be a great game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OnCrack

SasQuatch

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 17, 2005
1,010
213
0
Netherlands / USA
It's not just that. It's the fact that automatic weapons are handed out as freely as candy at Uncle Pervie's house, and 9 times out of 10 -- especially if a server isn't full -- there are more automatic weapons on both sides than bolt action, not even accounting for lmg's and semi-autos. It's the fact that a player can cheat death up to 3 times, with 2 bandages and a long, protracted final bleedout. There's more "perks" than COD, but at least COD makes them "perks" - here, they're a permanent feature for everyone (bandaging/bleedout), or at least half of the players in a game (full auto weapons).

I am personally a fan of rifles and I would like to see more bolts in our rounds then semi's and full auto's, but our design team made a different choice. Which is perfectly fine by me personally as well.
It does add to the challange as rifleman, making the class even more special to me actually. It's the class of choice for people looking for a challange.

I can still handle myself pretty well in a semi/auto rich enviroment, but you have to pick your battles, litterally. For one, I make sure the servers i join don't run 64 player Apartments, because it's madness. I look up Pavlovs, Spartanovka, Commissars, RedOctoberFactory etcetera or any other map that allows riflemen to perform their role properly. Or I make sure that on the smaller maps I play on are on servers featuring 32 players max. I personally feel 32 to 40 players is the perfect number for RO2 maps which btw are not smaller then the RO1 TWI maps.

For your bandaging comment: As far as I'm aware of, the type of wounds that you now can bleed out on were not lethal in RO1. So this bandaging wounds is not 'cheating death' as you put it. Wounds just became more detailed in RO2: Instant death, death, slow death, bandagable bleedout wounds, non lethal wounds. In RO1 you had: Lethal, non lethal. In the Mod you had lethal, crippeling, non lethal.
 

Rak

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 23, 2005
3,539
677
0
33
D
This thread is specifically for Ramm or Wilson though. Or "for the guy who made the decision".
 
Last edited:

melipone

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 22, 2006
1,672
259
0
I am personally a fan of rifles and I would like to see more bolts in our rounds then semi's and full auto's, but our design team made a different choice. Which is perfectly fine by me personally as well.
It does add to the challange as rifleman, making the class even more special to me actually. It's the class of choice for people looking for a challange.

I can still handle myself pretty well in a semi/auto rich enviroment, but you have to pick your battles, litterally. For one, I make sure the servers i join don't run 64 player Apartments, because it's madness. I look up Pavlovs, Spartanovka, Commissars, RedOctoberFactory etcetera or any other map that allows riflemen to perform their role properly. Or I make sure that on the smaller maps I play on are on servers featuring 32 players max. I personally feel 32 to 40 players is the perfect number for RO2 maps which btw are not smaller then the RO1 TWI maps.

For your bandaging comment: As far as I'm aware of, the type of wounds that you now can bleed out on were not lethal in RO1. So this bandaging wounds is not 'cheating death' as you put it. Wounds just became more detailed in RO2: Instant death, death, slow death, bandagable bleedout wounds, non lethal wounds. In RO1 you had: Lethal, non lethal. In the Mod you had lethal, crippeling, non lethal.

You're creating artificial difficulty for yourself though with bolts. They just don't excell enough in one area for you to want to take them compared to semi's and smgs, that do what bolts do but are 10x as versatile and can kill multiple enemies in the time it takes to fire one bolt round, not to mention they're easy as ****. I mean, I would take bolt if I wanted to feel like a badass, but for practical reasons theres just no point imo, especially if you want to play to win.

For bandaging, I don't really mind. Its just odd that you whip out a bandage and stop the bleeding so fast. I think it adds a nice dimension to gameplay though, although I think it also makes it easier for high rate of fire guns as you can fire back when you would be dead in Ostfront from a bolt shot
 
Last edited:

Richey79

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 13, 2009
512
202
0
Well, I certainly won't stop playing HoS for BF3...

Take a look at today's joke of a beta announcement. Makes you rather admire the way TWI conducted theirs:

[url]http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/battlefield-3/1426389-zh1nt0-please-give-us-explanation.html[/URL]

I also see that their community manager has taken on DICE's trade-mark arrogant manner within record time.

I can still handle myself pretty well in a semi/auto rich enviroment, but you have to pick your battles, litterally. For one, I make sure the servers i join don't run 64 player Apartments, because it's madness.

I'm enjoying going up against them as a bolter, frankly. The Tokarev pistol helps a huge amount at close range, even on Apartments.
 

Justd1e

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 23, 2011
55
81
0
So a mauser bullet to center of gravity that is magically cured in 1 second is
a light wound? I call bull****. Tell your design team to cut on MW2
 

Kenobi

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 14, 2009
224
128
0
I am personally a fan of rifles and I would like to see more bolts in our rounds then semi's and full auto's, but our design team made a different choice. Which is perfectly fine by me personally as well.
It does add to the challange as rifleman, making the class even more special to me actually. It's the class of choice for people looking for a challange.

Bull. Did the design team do their research and take into account the previous rifle-orientated game that was RO:I? Did they take into account the prevalance of rifles over SMGs and Semi-Autos in the real war? Stating that we should be happy to 'have the challenge' as a rifleman is just a cop-out excuse, something that TWI seem to be dishing more and more out.


I can still handle myself pretty well in a semi/auto rich enviroment, but you have to pick your battles, litterally. For one, I make sure the servers i join don't run 64 player Apartments, because it's madness. I look up Pavlovs, Spartanovka, Commissars, RedOctoberFactory etcetera or any other map that allows riflemen to perform their role properly. Or I make sure that on the smaller maps I play on are on servers featuring 32 players max. I personally feel 32 to 40 players is the perfect number for RO2 maps which btw are not smaller then the RO1 TWI maps.

Pull the other one SasQuatch. Again, a strawman for something that is terribly malfunctioning. I shouldn't have to pick my servers carefully or choose a lesser populated one. I like to play on my preferred realism server, I would like to see that realism through to the end and acknowledge the mass-quantity produced weapon that was the bolt action. As for personal belief, I like the ol' RO:I limit of 50. :)

For your bandaging comment: As far as I'm aware of, the type of wounds that you now can bleed out on were not lethal in RO1. So this bandaging wounds is not 'cheating death' as you put it. Wounds just became more detailed in RO2: Instant death, death, slow death, bandagable bleedout wounds, non lethal wounds. In RO1 you had: Lethal, non lethal. In the Mod you had lethal, crippeling, non lethal.

Sure, on paper it sounds great. We were all sold a 'detailed and complex' wounding system before beta and game-launch. Unfortunately, in-game it is a different matter. Players literally take a bullet anywhere (spare head and torso shots from bolties), duck down and bandage up in two seconds. Where is the complexity in that? Never once have I seen any depth in the wound system. Has your design team been smoking pot the past few months? Did you actually get a new one in to replace the original RO:I team?
 

Dubiousgeezer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 19, 2011
10
0
0
It does add to the challange as rifleman, making the class even more special to me actually. It's the class of choice for people looking for a challange.

Well that's kind of the point. There is a challenge to being a rifleman. But the only reason that this challenge is there is because pretty much every other gun is the entire game is as good or better than a rifle in 98% of the cases. There is just no reason to pick the weapon when you can settle for something much better.

Sure, you get the choice, but immersion through immersion is much better than immersion through handicapping yourself.

If the immersion doesn't get killed by the fact that there's way too many experimental weaponry first, that is.

No to mention the balance issues at the moment


I personally feel 32 to 40 players is the perfect number for RO2 maps which btw are not smaller then the RO1 TWI maps.

They seem the same size, yet I can cover ground like 3 times as fast. Which makes them feel 3 times as small. Or even more, since every pathway is blocked off by pinpoint automatic fire.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.