Heroes system to unlock tanks as it does with weapons

[Witzig]

So what was good about the unlock system? What is one good reason for its inclusion.

I'd like to comment on this in a seperate post.


We do NOT know why TWI decided to include it.



I can imagine some Reasons:
It belongs to their approach to soften the learning Curve
While some people might say FPS is FPS, RO:Ost (while probably having less Functionalities as HoS) had a lot of possibilites what you could do.
A lot of people where overwhelmed, so by introducing a small Limitation on what is avaible to you on first Spawn this might help getting aquanted with the Aiming System. Trying too many new Weapons in a short time won't make that easier.
Though we don't even know if a low Rank will bare you from anything, apart from some Hereo Weapons, which only compliment Class Loadouts.


To add a bit of Long Term improvement, albeit small.
This was actually requested by people in the RO:Ost Forum iirc.


But i guess their reasoning for this Addition was more complex. And probably had some heated discussions with the Team (as Ironsight "zooming" to the Realistic View Scale).

 

[VariousNames]

Stop expecting it to be like other unlockable systems. Aside from the fundamentals of "Good play = reward" - It's not going to be the same.

"But none of this pertains to the argument people are actually making, which is that unlocks in the context of RO serve to ensure that only the people who are experienced or serious enough get access to specialized roles. That's something I can understand.

To that extent and to that extent alone, I agree with their inclusion, ideally on the condition that the unlock requirements serve the purpose of teaching people to use the given item."

Then why are you still posting on this forum? Given that you now have zero interest in the game & you'll not be buying it, what does it matter how the game turns out?

Because as it stands this is the only hinge issue on my purchasing decision.

 

[VariousNames]

I can imagine some Reasons:
It belongs to their approach to soften the learning Curve
While some people might say FPS is FPS, RO:Ost (while probably having less Functionalities as HoS) had a lot of possibilites what you could do.
A lot of people where overwhelmed, so by introducing a small Limitation on what is avaible to you on first Spawn this might help getting aquanted with the Aiming System. Trying too many new Weapons in a short time won't make that easier.

Reducing the number of weapons doesn't soften the learning curve. It just reduces the number of weapons.

Likewise with the number of classes.

Softening the learning curve is achieved by reducing the amount of penalties to unskilled players. I can tell you a good way to do that, and it's probably not with the proposed Heroes system's reduced suppression effects for top-ranking players. It's probably not by giving new players bolt action rifles while the cool kids who've been playing for 40 hours get semi automatic rifles and tanks.

Nothing about a locking system makes playing this game any easier. More focused...maybe. But not any easier.

Besides, the proposed "shooting range" and singleplayer campaign will give new players plenty of time to become acquainted not just with aiming, but also with ballistics and sighting mechanics. This is the real way to soften the learning curve, and the real way to "teach" players basic gameplay mechanics.

Forcing them up against GI Joe and his mkb42 and reduced suppression mechanics on Danzig right out of training.. Maybe not the best idea?

To add a bit of Long Term improvement, albeit small.
This was actually requested by people in the RO:Ost Forum iirc.

There is no "long term improvement" offered by putting things that would otherwise be available under a lock.

The only thing that affords you is a limited experience until you unlock them, at which point you will have an experience merely equal to the experience you'd have sans locks.

 

[Witzig]

hm...

You do know that there is a Loadout Restriction per Infantry Classes ? And that there can't be unlimited Semi-Auto Riflemen.

And if someone ain't a "Hero" he will still be able to use another Semi-Auto Rifle, but not the MKb42.

The offline Training counts towards the progression System.



I for one will wait until i get to play HoS, until i pass judgement on that System.

If i got you right, you are completly against any Sort of Progression System (with or without Unlocks). So my suggestion would be that you wait until the Details are revealed about the System, and than pass judgement on the System.

But if you can't stand it anyway just don't buy the Game. There is a reason i stopped buying CoD Games after United Offense, the series didn't appeal to me anymore.


TWI is known to listen to feedback, but until more Details are know how exactly the Progression ties into the Game, our "Feedback" is based upon Speculation.

 

[VariousNames]

hm...
The offline Training counts towards the progression System.

Good. It should be the entirety of it, and then I have no issues.

I for one will wait until i get to play HoS, until i pass judgement on that System.

But then you've already bought it.

If i got you right, you are completly against any Sort of Progression System (with or without Unlocks). So my suggestion would be that you wait until the Details are revealed about the System, and than pass judgement on the System.

I can speak hypothetically and generally in the meantime. I'm not passing judgment on the game in some respects, I'm just passing judgment on concepts.

 

[Witzig]

But then you've already bought it.

Yes, I will buy it, in its current state (from what i can tell), its already a huge improvement to RO:Ostfront, and thus i know i will throroughly enjoy the Game, as i did with Ostfront. You don't know if you will buy it and don't have to, there will be quite a Large Beta (20k Keys).
And if you'd voice you criticism as you did in the begining, you might make it into the Beta (if you'd like).
Even though People having a widely different opinion about something you love (as the Devs certainly feel about HoS), is not always easy to bear. That does still make it important to have people who voice their opinion (even though one probably doesn't agree/wants to hear it).

And if you don't get into the Beta, i'd be heavily suprised if there are no Reports/Infos from players about the Progression System, after the Release of the Game.

But it should be voiced in a certain way.

Surely there were a collection of things that i didn't like in Ostfront, but most of them were not easily changeable in the old Engine.


Actually i'd buy it if it wouldn't appear as good as it is now, but i do like a lot of things about TWI that other people don't notice or don't value as much. But each to his/hers own.
For example i bought Killing Floor, and found it not to be exactly my Cup of Tea (the Gameplay), but still consider it money well spent.

I can speak hypothetically and generally in the meantime. I'm not passing judgment on the game in some respects, I'm just passing judgment on concepts.

Its not like i'm going to forbid that (not that i could). I'd just like to point out that this game will be as far from WoW, as the Moon is from the Earth.

 

[Dwin]

No, it's not. What you just did was misrepresent my position, which is a formal fallacy called a strawman.

I don't make that assumption. That invalidates the rest of your post, which was based on...a mistaken assumption.

Did I really?

The locking system is just a scheme to extort more playtime out of the user.

ex

 

[VariousNames]

Did I really?
ex

 

[Reise]

It's not a big deal, and I won't be buying it.

I personally don't see the value in arguing over a game you have no interest in buying.

Or arguing over a feature we know very little about, especially the ranking and "unlock" aspect of it.

 

[VariousNames]

I personally don't see the value in arguing over a game you have no interest in buying.

Or arguing over a feature we know very little about, especially the ranking and "unlock" aspect of it.

A) this is a hinge issue on my purchasing the game.

B) so you're going to accept whatever they put on your plate? What is the purpose of discussing something once it's already embedded in thousands of lines of code? Do you really think they're just going to erase something they spent 8 months painstakingly building and then polishing (hypothetical timescale)?

 

[SheepDip]

But you've stated already you won't be buying it. So it's obviously not a hinge issue.

We all might accept what's on our plate when we know exactly what it is.
And for the most part, yes, loads of people on this forum will accept what TWI put on our plates - because they are a good developer.

Yes they listen to their community and look for their input, but at the end of the day it's their game - and a progression system has obviously been planned for around 3 years.

I don't think that a few threads on the forum will have a great effect on it - even with TWI's excellent history of taking community input...

 

[dogbadger]

seeing as this is where the progression dabate is taking place (not just tanks)....

A) this is a hinge issue on my purchasing the game.....

sorry i haven't read through the whole thread - do you object to the idea of a purely cosmetic progression to a hero, or just a system where you have access to more kit/abilities (like supression resistance) that gives an advantage to the more experienced player?
Would you prefer a progression that occurs with a game/campaign rather than persistantly?

And how do you feel about achievements?

Personally i'm not a fan of the latter for a game like this, and would prefer any unlocking to occur within a game or campaign and reset, certainly performance ones but to some extent cosmetic too.

However that's not the system as i understand it - but i would like to see tank hero progression separate from infantry - phaps with that granting you the right to 'force' your way into the locked tank of someone far less experienced.

 

[VariousNames]

sorry i haven't read through the whole thread - do you object to the idea of a purely cosmetic progression to a hero, or just a system where you have access to more kit/abilities (like supression resistance) that gives an advantage to the more experienced player?

The latter

Would you prefer a progression that occurs with a game/campaign rather than persistantly?

Yes

And how do you feel about achievements?

Don't care as long as they don't affect gameplay

 

[VariousNames]

But you've stated already you won't be buying it. So it's obviously not a hinge issue.

Evidently I did, but I also said it's a hinge issue, which it is.

Let me clarify, it's conditional. Sans non-cosmetic persistent progression system....purchase....if that system is included, no purchase. I just don't have any interest in grinding levelups, nor the unnecessary gameplay imbalances they provide. The fact that it is totally unrealistic doesn't help the integrity of the sim.

 

[Fedorov]

I'd like if the hero tanks were more clean, had better paints, and probably smoother and cleaner sounds in the machinery :IS2:

 

[Poerisija]

I am also afraid unlocks will end up being like "Unlock T34 model '43 - kill 500 PzIV's with your main gun"

Which won't be fun. At. All.