Bah, I learn something new everyday :3
Yeah maybe some camo or 'elite' armor paintings would do well to let everyone else know "Oh hey look at me I'm a bad ***"
Armor for optics? Ehh, sketchy sketchy...
Heroes system to unlock tanks as it does with weapons
- Thread starter C_Gibby
- Start date
Bah, I learn something new everyday :3
Yeah maybe some camo or 'elite' armor paintings would do well to let everyone else know "Oh hey look at me I'm a bad ***"
Armor for optics? Ehh, sketchy sketchy...
![-[SiN]-TiTuS](/data/avatars/s/26/26621.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
im in total support of the decals...not so much for the pintel mg. its just not realistic to the tanks at the time. decals though...as unrealistic as it sounds...have like a "body shop" type section on the main menu where you can unlock certain camouflages, kill marker bands, foliage to attach to your tank, and those "death to the fascists" type insults that the ruskies tended to paint on their tanks, much like any of those racing games. i also liked the idea of giving seasoned players a "new" looking paintjob. however, giving more ammunition or better ammunition just seems like too much of an advantage.
I suggest you read the topic line.
"unlock tanks." Not "unlock silly accessories for tanks and cool paint jobs lol!
"To be plain, I disagree with unlocking tanks. I don't disagree with stupid, mostly cosmetic accessories. Likewise, I also disagree with Elite tankers getting APCR ammunition because, sorry, if you look at the penetration tables, APCR is much, much better than standard APCBC ammunition.
VariousNames is the resident "No Fun Allowed" guy now.
I suggest you read the topic line.
"unlock tanks." Not "unlock silly accessories for tanks and cool paint jobs lol!
To be plain, I disagree with unlocking tanks. I don't disagree with stupid, mostly cosmetic accessories. Likewise, I also disagree with Elite tankers getting APCR ammunition because, sorry, if you look at the penetration tables, APCR is much, much better than standard APCBC ammunition.
The conversation turned into hoo dads for tanks if you read later post. And stupid cosmetics accessories? Do you want the game to be gray? =/
Huh? What are you on about?
Unlocking **** isn't fun. It isn't a game. It's a chore. It's work. That's why I don't like it.
It's about as fun as running through a maze for a piece of cheese.
Since when is playing the game not fun?
Unlocking is only a chore if you make it one. If your mindset is, "I HAVE to unlock X feature to enjoy the game" then you are doing it wrong.
Unlocks are becoming an issue, if the item being unlocked has a high value in gameplay or is of high regard to that person. For example I would value the Stg44 very high and if I'd need to play a relatively long time before I could even try out the weapon, I'd be upset.
Unlocks that enhance gameplay can be found in other games, where a player starts with a basic load-out, but soon unlocks side-grades, which are choices that neither enhance or downgrade your load-out, but give you other options to choose from. Also unlocking advanced items that might confuse beginners could be nice, but this would need to be handled delicately, since people might not want to wait too long for an item to be available.
Unlocks that enhance gameplay can be found in other games, where a player starts with a basic load-out, but soon unlocks side-grades, which are choices that neither enhance or downgrade your load-out, but give you other options to choose from. Also unlocking advanced items that might confuse beginners could be nice, but this would need to be handled delicately, since people might not want to wait too long for an item to be available.
I'd like to lower my tank, and put on a spoiler.
But seriously, cosmetic changes are fine, but like infantry heroes, there could be weapons advantages. I think a realistic one would be a load-out change, having a few more APCR rounds. Maybe the ability to choose your load-out instead of the default: A) Anti-infantry - more HE, B) Anti-tank more AP + APCR when available, C) Assault - HE + Smoke (if available historically)
But seriously, cosmetic changes are fine, but like infantry heroes, there could be weapons advantages. I think a realistic one would be a load-out change, having a few more APCR rounds. Maybe the ability to choose your load-out instead of the default: A) Anti-infantry - more HE, B) Anti-tank more AP + APCR when available, C) Assault - HE + Smoke (if available historically)
Then what do we need unlocks for? If the game is fun, scrap unlocks. They're stupid and a colossal waste of time.
I've thought about this one... At first I reasoned it by saying "Oh well if there weren't unlocks then the German army would be running around with Mg42s, Gew41s, and Mkb.42s", but I realized that in RO:OST they limited the number of people who could have that weapon which I think is a good idea for HOS. I also believe that Ramm-Jaeger was right in that the more combat you go through the better you become. ALTHOUGH that isn't always true as there are some green soldiers that get into combat and don't freak out like others. It's all in the person's mind set when entering battle, and how well they are trained.
Another example which I think backs the "Unlocks" is that in combat the people who have proven themselves to be better than the average get better equipment.
ex. Specializations: A machine gunner gets the machine gun because he is the best machine gunner. A sniper gets the sniper rifle because he is qualified as the best marksman and therefore gets a sniper rifle.
A more broad example I can make is with the German army around 1943. MOST (I emphasize MOST) units with the best fighting records were given the newest weapons and vehicles to give them an edge while fighting. Did that make them unstoppable NO, but it did give them a slight edge.
Yet another example: Special Forces get the best equipment possible, including weapons that your average infantry man doesn't get because they are the best of the best and it can give them a fighting edge. I believe this is what TWI is trying to implement and I believe that's just fine.
After reading some of your posts, I'm wondering why you're still posting and fighting this. You did say you weren't going to buy the game...
Not to be a jerk, but I don't understand why you went mad over this instead of just stating what you thought nicely... instead you were pretty much a jerk to the head guy who just wants feed back. I mean the guy takes time out of his busy day to read what the fans have to say (which I haven't seen in any other major game) and you act like a fool and trash him. Show some respect he shows us some by at least reading what we have to say!
Variety.
There are a lot of features in the game that don't strictly need to exist, like the existing choices of weapons. E.g., why have both an MG42 and MG34? That doesn't invalidate their inclusion.
What objective reason do you have for thinking unlocks are stupid? Why are they a waste of time? Since when is more content a waste of time?
I am about to objectively demonstrate why your reason for their inclusion is bunk.
Absolutely nothing about having something locked for players who don't meet certain requirements contributes to variety. In fact, it diminishes variety, and in particular, their choices early on until they unlock them. If they were simply available from the get-go, that would fulfill the criteria of variety maximally, without forcing people to jump through a bunch of hoops or grind.
Unlocks don't contribute to content, and they don't contribute to variety.
Let me draw an illustration so this makes more sense. I recently rented a Playstation 3 game called Killzone 2. I really enjoyed the gameplay mechanics. The problem is when I logged online and tried out the multiplayer component, I saw that absolutely everything save 2 firearms were locked. You had access to one assault rifle and one pistol per faction. That isn't variety. That's a pain in the ***. So what did I do? Well, instead of sitting there and grinding the requisite forty hours for the privilege of holding a submachine gun, I turned the game off and returned it to the store. Part of the reason I utterly despise unlocks is that they force you down a narrow path. Jump through this hoop, run through this obstacle course, and only then can you have fun.
All you have to do is make them unlocked and then I can actually play with them.
But none of this pertains to the argument people are actually making, which is that unlocks in the context of RO serve to ensure that only the people who are experienced or serious enough get access to specialized roles. That's something I can understand.
To that extent and to that extent alone, I agree with their inclusion, ideally on the condition that the unlock requirements serve the purpose of teaching people to use the given item.
@VariousNames
As stated from TWI, you can gain "Rank" by completing the Offline Training. And we don't know how exactly the Progression System works.
Even if we take the unlock System from BF:BC2 (i think TWI will easily surpass the "quality" of that System), you gain only minor Improvements as you progress through the Ranks. Within 10 to 20 hours of relaxed play your having more than half of everything avaible.
And even in BF:BC2 the last Weapons were seldom the "Best", its all about personal preference. A lot of players prefered the "noob" Assault Rifle, because the diferences between ARs was so minute.
So if BC2 got it right and not bothersome, do you really think TWI will do worse ? Really ? I don't think so, considering they have worked and probably tweaked on it for years now.
As stated from TWI, you can gain "Rank" by completing the Offline Training. And we don't know how exactly the Progression System works.
Even if we take the unlock System from BF:BC2 (i think TWI will easily surpass the "quality" of that System), you gain only minor Improvements as you progress through the Ranks. Within 10 to 20 hours of relaxed play your having more than half of everything avaible.
And even in BF:BC2 the last Weapons were seldom the "Best", its all about personal preference. A lot of players prefered the "noob" Assault Rifle, because the diferences between ARs was so minute.
So if BC2 got it right and not bothersome, do you really think TWI will do worse ? Really ? I don't think so, considering they have worked and probably tweaked on it for years now.
That depends on how you look at it. Say they removed all unlockable content from the game. Then there would be less content.
Which is clearly not the route HoS is taking. Locking the use of a few special weapons is not the same as locking the use of nearly every weapon. The extent to which they implement unlocks matters. If HoS were to force you to grind levels in order to use anything other than a rifle, that would be comparable to what you described. Locking the use of a few specialized weapons/features that are not integral to the gameplay, and thus could otherwise be excluded without major repercussions is entirely different.
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There you go Various, now you've got it
by the way sorry for the extra posts, my internet went down and I didn't think it posted them, my bad.
I'm genuinely distressed that I can explain things in that great of detail and still be misunderstood.
There is absolutely nothing about removing the locks, that is, the maze portion of the cheese maze, that makes it so that the cheese disappears. You can still give somebody a piece of cheese without the maze. You can give me gouda, swiss, meunster, bleu. Precisely nothing about not having to work for it limits your options.
The only difference is, when you force me to work, or jump through specific hoops for unlockables, now the objects are not available to me at the beginning, whereas if you simply give them to me on the outset, I will have more variety immediately.
I'm not suggesting you remove the skins, extra weapons, tanks, or anything else. I'm suggesting you remove the locking system.
And how do you know what route HoS is taking?
All I'm interested in is leaving totally useless grinding out of the equation, because it's akin to work and therefore is a waste of time because there is no real product here from unlocking videogame items. If the system requires people merely to learn how to use a specialized role, I think that's fine. Forcing them to work for it or jump through hoops is arbitrary and silly.