Heroes of Stalingrad

[nKM]

I want to take a moment to weigh in with my thoughts on the discussion yesterday. First off i want to thank NKM and all the other guys for putting the chat session together. I really appreciate them taking the time out of their Saturday evening to make that happen, and get all the people together for the chat.

First off I'd like to say that I thought the chat was great, and it was really interesting to get some direct discussion and feedback with competitive gamers. There are two things that the hardcore RO guys need to keep in mind. One this chat wasn't about revealing new information about the game. Secondly, it wasn't even geared toward RO fans. The whole purpose of this chat was to help familiarize the non-RO competitive community with the game and its competitive features, and to give them a chance to provide feedback to TWI on what they want to see in the game. And that is what we did.

I really appreciate the feedback I got from the guys. As some people have stated, if it was just a room full of people kissing our rears then it wouldn't really be productive, and TWI wouldn't learn anything from the conversation. With that said I will have to disagree with NKM slightly and say that there was one guy in the chat who was really rude and disrespectful. It was very clear he decided that he had written off the game, and just wanted to troll the TWI devs. We aren't looking for people to agree with everything we do. But when we take a couple of hours out of our development time to have a personal chat with people, we'd at least like people to respectfully disagree

On the flip side I'd just like to ask the RO guys to take it easy on the non-RO guys. Growing the community will be a great thing for all of us - we'll make more money to make even better games, and you'll have a lot more people to play RO with. Please don't push them away by acting elitist - even if we all know RO players are the best

It was a pleasure to host, hopefully we can do it again!

 

[Zetsumei]

You know.

Students.

New words in the new book.

They usually figure out when in the real world no one is impressed anymore

I'm not trying to impress anyone, if I would I'd manage to say what I want to say with 5 lines of text. Grobut in that sense is much better for that stuff. I usually make long posts where people cannot make any reason of what i'm saying and completely skip it.

I already write long posts, so I try to make things shorter. Putting the essence of things is a skill that I simply do not fully master, when at the lack of better words I just write things in terms that I know myself.

If there is something that doesn't make sense, I want to explain what I mean. As my mind often goes everywhere while writing, I can make weird sentence constructions. So if people say what stuff doesn't seem to make sense, then I can try to go on with it.

-----------

Anyway what I wanted to say is that people are good at making predictive models in their mind.

In RO1 your view of your camera is regularly directly dependant on your mouse in a sort of 1:1 translation. Then the gun can be seen as to move a bit faster than your camera till it hits a boundary. So after a while for hip shooting you can learn pretty well if an enemy appears at that pixel how much you need to move your mouse to come exactly at that pixel. So once you obtain a good model you can perfectly use your proprioceptive feedback to snapshoot.

For shooting in iron sights i'm not too sure whether I'd like it as much. I primarily see free aim as a method of making it impossible to put a dot on the middle of your screen. In the end learning and using a gun with free aim is more difficult than without, and since putting a dot on your screen doesn't matter when you have ironsights up, it might end up making things more complex than it needs to be there.

-----------

Just listening to the bit, I like it so far not hearing anything that violent so far. It's quite funny to see how much alike in the basic sense all competitive gamers are for any game. Be it old RO players or BF or any other game. People act more defensively when things start going about the ability to control your character (free aim and suppression), as being able to make your in game like an extension of your arm is a key to be able to fully enjoy gaming.

 

[Mormegil]

...
Unfortunately, it appears the even more unfortunate response of this community in this thread will continue the trend seen here of a holier-than-thou, insulting, belittling and dismissive attitude toward those that do not follow 'the gospel', disagree with a point or points, or express valid criticism.

...
Keep it up, I'm sure you can alienate the competitive scene, as you've already done for many casual gamers (I know several that have lost interest because of the blatantly apparent community 'attitude').
Rob

Well if it's any consolation, most people actually playing ROOST aren't necessarily the regular forum goers. The forum community doesn't equal the RO community.

 

[ButchCassidy]

Sounds like valid concerns were raised. In particular, since games do not allow proprioception, the idea of randomization or unlearnable aim points *is* a valid concern for competitive players.

Unfortunately, it appears the even more unfortunate response of this community in this thread will continue the trend seen here of a holier-than-thou, insulting, belittling and dismissive attitude toward those that do not follow 'the gospel', disagree with a point or points, or express valid criticism.

I wonder how many of the know-it-alls here re: competitive gaming have ever actually done so, much less for money.

Keep it up, I'm sure you can alienate the competitive scene, as you've already done for many casual gamers (I know several that have lost interest because of the blatantly apparent community 'attitude').


Quite sad, really, to see all the pissing on potential sales...ignore those that live in the worlds you want to expand into at you own peril.

You really can end up withan exclusive game - one only you will be playing.

Rob

Mmmm.. insulting, belittling and dismissive would that be the guy that left the chat room in the middle of the podcast?

It seems to me that your post is a very good example of what you claim everyone here is doing.
Instead of calmly and rationally putting across your point you seem to have made a post that simply rants about your poor perception of the RO community.

Are we unlike yourself not entitled to an opinion (in our own forums, I might add) or is it that only competitive gamers may have opinions upon competitve gaming?

I think many members here enjoyed the cast and a maybe a few did not.
Maybe you were expecting everyone here to say "I hope TWI bend over backwards to get these guys playing RO" I don't know but judging from your post you were expecting something which you did not get.

I expected to win the lottery this week but sadly i was disappointed again...Such is life...

I'm sure many RO community members would welcome a serious discussion about competitive gaming and if you are a serious gamer and interested in expressing your views in a way that people can respect and debate upon, then please feel free to post something with a little more content that does you credit, rather than another post like the one above that does you no credit at all.

 

[Snuffeldjuret]

Regarding competitive play, I am also a bit worried that the free aim while in Iron Sight mode will "feel wierd". Feels like there are quite some people sharing my thought so it would be interesting to have a discussion about just that topic. I haven't played the game so I don't really know how it feels, all I know is that I am usually quite cranky when it comes to how my screen reacts to my mouse movement (I for one really dislike the mouse sens reduction while resting the gun in roost ).

 

[Zetsumei]

Regarding competitive play, I am also a bit worried that the free aim while in Iron Sight mode will "feel wierd". Feels like there are quite some people sharing my thought so it would be interesting to have a discussion about just that topic. I haven't played the game so I don't really know how it feels, all I know is that I am usually quite cranky when it comes to how my screen reacts to my mouse movement (I for one really dislike the mouse sens reduction while resting the gun in roost ).

Since there will be a beta phase with clans in it, it could just be tried out at some point. If its bad people will complain anyway.

 

[Floyd]

Regarding competitive play, I am also a bit worried that the free aim while in Iron Sight mode will "feel wierd". Feels like there are quite some people sharing my thought so it would be interesting to have a discussion about just that topic. I haven't played the game so I don't really know how it feels, all I know is that I am usually quite cranky when it comes to how my screen reacts to my mouse movement (I for one really dislike the mouse sens reduction while resting the gun in roost ).

I'm not a competitive gamer, nor do I want crosshairs. Yet, I have been a competitive rifle/pistol shooter and worry about the free aim in iron sight mode as well. I've said it many times in the past that I have always felt that for the most part TW got the weapon handling down fairly well in RO. In the forums, we've had several discussions about the mouse sensistivity variations between weapon posititions. Personally, in RO I like the change and feel it accurately depicts the effect of resting your weapon. With the ability to change mouse sensitivity on the fly now, with a little tweaking everyone can get pretty close to what they like with very little effort.

Even as a non-competitive player, I'll admit that I'm a little concerned about their concept of iron sighted free aim deviating too far from reality and having to battle the mouse for control of the weapon. However, I'll hold off casting judgement of the free aim in iron sights until I see specifically what TW means by 'free aim' and how its implemented.

 

[[TW]Wilsonam]

Ok, a couple of shots across the bows:

1. John has made our point about the guy that we felt was prodding it. End of story, lets put it to bed and leave it be. Opinions will differ - great gameplay will either rise to the surface, or mediocre gameplay will sink. We know where our view stands

2. Our long-term faithful have been known to push the holier-than-thou, only-the-gods-of-RO-can-be-right. We know we are But you don't convert the new user by punching them in the teeth - let them come, welcome them in, accept that they don't yet know us well - and let the game convert them! We know how it goes - suck them in, let them try it for a couple of hours - then their life is ours! getting combative/aggressive about it doesn't convert people.

3. People from the outside world have concerns that are genuine to them. People don't make a paradigm shift just on a whim, nor on the word of those already converted. Again, let the game speak for itself.

Ultimately: welcome new blood. Some of them will get it, some will help populate target-rich environments. And some of them will become ferociously good at the game, using our beloved (real) mechanics. Just because they don't agree yet, does NOT make them "wrong". They just haven't been suitably exposed yet!

So, people, chill. Help us to help them into the fold. The more who are converted, the better for all of us! Be reasonable, understanding of their concerns, listen to their fears. And don't write long-winded posts while drunk... it is hard work spotting all the typos when you can't feel your won fingers (oops.).

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/...authkey=CLb8hvgH&hl=en_GB&pli=1&ndplr=1&pli=1

^ hope this is official stuff because it's very impressive

 

[nKM]

Ok, a couple of shots across the bows:

1. John has made our point about the guy that we felt was prodding it. End of story, lets put it to bed and leave it be. Opinions will differ - great gameplay will either rise to the surface, or mediocre gameplay will sink. We know where our view stands

2. Our long-term faithful have been known to push the holier-than-thou, only-the-gods-of-RO-can-be-right. We know we are But you don't convert the new user by punching them in the teeth - let them come, welcome them in, accept that they don't yet know us well - and let the game convert them! We know how it goes - suck them in, let them try it for a couple of hours - then their life is ours! getting combative/aggressive about it doesn't convert people.

3. People from the outside world have concerns that are genuine to them. People don't make a paradigm shift just on a whim, nor on the word of those already converted. Again, let the game speak for itself.

Ultimately: welcome new blood. Some of them will get it, some will help populate target-rich environments. And some of them will become ferociously good at the game, using our beloved (real) mechanics. Just because they don't agree yet, does NOT make them "wrong". They just haven't been suitably exposed yet!

So, people, chill. Help us to help them into the fold. The more who are converted, the better for all of us! Be reasonable, understanding of their concerns, listen to their fears. And don't write long-winded posts while drunk... it is hard work spotting all the typos when you can't feel your won fingers (oops.).

Drunk? Us Glasgow boys don't know the meaning of the word!

 

[REZ]

[URL]https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...&ndplr=1&pli=1[/URL]

^ hope this is official stuff because it's very impressive

Nice find.. some great stuff in there. If it is official, I'm a very happy boy. Especially the ROTV part, and the part about turning off the map time limit.

 

[LightsabeR]

Looks like the document Ramm said he sent to nKM. Not sure if it was meant to be made public...

 

[nKM]

Looks like the document Ramm said he sent to nKM. Not sure if it was meant to be made public...

It came with a disclaimer at the source and from Ramm-Jaeger himself in the discussion. It's not a final document and should not be taking as 100% confirmed as the content and limit of its integration can change.

 

[Snuffeldjuret]

I think it was supposed to be public, as it was linked to in the first post in this topic. It is a great read indeed, I've happily forwarded it to all my clan mates =). And as nKM said, Ramm mentioned it in the chat and how all things in the document might not be in the game at release. If that would be the case the intention is to implement it later.

 

[[TW]Ramm-Jaeger]

Looks like the document Ramm said he sent to nKM. Not sure if it was meant to be made public...

I'm pretty certain I asked for it not to be released publicly It's a work in progress, and not everything on that list will necessarily make it in for the ship date. It is essentially a list of all the stuff that we're working on getting in, and want to get it.

 

[Darrosquall]

Tripwire Interactive have listened to the competitive gamers out there and tailored their new game to appeal to the competitive scene. Some of the features already confirmed included:-

- RO TV 2.0

 

[Mormegil]

I never seen a flawless victory like this.
Oh.
My.
God.

Tripwire is doing the story.

Just to note, it's 3 gameplay types. The 6 counted Countdown twice, and TDM = Firefight.


I finally listened to the podcast. I didn't catch the IRC, so I don't know about how that went. But I don't think the guy who left was being really rude. He was being honest, and it's not clear to me he left because of what was being said, but had to leave for other reasons, and wanted to get his opinion out quickly, and maybe bluntly.


I think we in the RO community and especially the TWI devs can be a bit overly protective about the game, and a bit defensive on it. Maybe that makes us a bit sensitive on people's criticism. We need to understand the community paying attention is getting bigger, which means a greater difference of opinion. Don't take it personally guys.


Edit: I apparently only listened to the 1st half of the podcast. Second half criticism on the suppression system could have been crossing the line to being a bit rude and condescending.

 

[ButchCassidy]

Ok, a couple of shots across the bows:

1. John has made our point about the guy that we felt was prodding it. End of story, lets put it to bed and leave it be. Opinions will differ - great gameplay will either rise to the surface, or mediocre gameplay will sink. We know where our view stands

2. Our long-term faithful have been known to push the holier-than-thou, only-the-gods-of-RO-can-be-right. We know we are But you don't convert the new user by punching them in the teeth - let them come, welcome them in, accept that they don't yet know us well - and let the game convert them! We know how it goes - suck them in, let them try it for a couple of hours - then their life is ours! getting combative/aggressive about it doesn't convert people.

3. People from the outside world have concerns that are genuine to them. People don't make a paradigm shift just on a whim, nor on the word of those already converted. Again, let the game speak for itself.

Ultimately: welcome new blood. Some of them will get it, some will help populate target-rich environments. And some of them will become ferociously good at the game, using our beloved (real) mechanics. Just because they don't agree yet, does NOT make them "wrong". They just haven't been suitably exposed yet!

So, people, chill. Help us to help them into the fold. The more who are converted, the better for all of us! Be reasonable, understanding of their concerns, listen to their fears. And don't write long-winded posts while drunk... it is hard work spotting all the typos when you can't feel your won fingers (oops.).

Well said Alan..The more the merrier I say..

 

[Snuffeldjuret]

I'm pretty certain I asked for it not to be released publicly ...

Finally we got some leaked info/stuff for this game too!!!!!

 

[Grumms]

Finally we got some leaked info/stuff for this game too!!!!!

Hahah. It was a great read too!