HC FPS gamer here, a few suggestions.
- Thread starter wahoo4
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![[TW]schneidzekk](/data/avatars/s/0/1.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
maybe some cod players want these things
BUT the question is, do they know how it feels to play without these things?
maybe they like it, its more diffucult :troll:
BUT the question is, do they know how it feels to play without these things?
maybe they like it, its more diffucult :troll:
The thing that really excites me is that You actually have to learn how to shoot the guns like in reality same as in RO, You can't just jump in the game and wing it.
So when you do become proficient it's that much more satisfying getting kills and performing well.
That is what has really turned me of the latest Cod instalments, At least in the earlier Cod's their was still a nice learning curve using the weapons, recoil and the like.
Hitboxes in the most recent Cod games seem to be big blocks and little to no recoil, combined with loads of buildings all around you where half the people on any map seem to hide in some dark corner, the lack of any enemy positional sound, all reallly leads me to conclude that they purposely designed the game to take any potential skillbase away from the players.
I think once new players to RO get to grips with the game they are going to find it so much more satisfying and rewarding than playing Black Ops for example.
So when you do become proficient it's that much more satisfying getting kills and performing well.
That is what has really turned me of the latest Cod instalments, At least in the earlier Cod's their was still a nice learning curve using the weapons, recoil and the like.
Hitboxes in the most recent Cod games seem to be big blocks and little to no recoil, combined with loads of buildings all around you where half the people on any map seem to hide in some dark corner, the lack of any enemy positional sound, all reallly leads me to conclude that they purposely designed the game to take any potential skillbase away from the players.
I think once new players to RO get to grips with the game they are going to find it so much more satisfying and rewarding than playing Black Ops for example.
Honestly, I don't see what the big problem with FFA is. Not my cup of tea, but neither is 24/7 Danzig. Obviously, some people seem to like that.
My main issue, which Knighted and Wahoo4 seem to be pushing (which I seriously doubt TWI would seriously consider) is to balance the individual weapons.
I and most RO players probably prefer to have each weapon have it's realistic strength and weakness, and balance with load-outs and maps.
So, I don't know how that would work on an FFA server with or without class limits. All I know is I'd want a tank.
My main issue, which Knighted and Wahoo4 seem to be pushing (which I seriously doubt TWI would seriously consider) is to balance the individual weapons.
I and most RO players probably prefer to have each weapon have it's realistic strength and weakness, and balance with load-outs and maps.
So, I don't know how that would work on an FFA server with or without class limits. All I know is I'd want a tank.
@ W4hoo and Knighted
Ok so W4hoo tried playing the game,how about you Knighted,did you try playing RO and after playing it still being convinced that it will be suitable game to have FFA mode in it?
As far as I know there will be TDM type gameplay just called different,but I'm not sure if you can have all the weapons available.
I guess we all have different mentality,to be honest when I heard first of RO2 I looked up on this website and saw the facts thread,and I was woowed,but then I looked for videos on you tube and for some bad luck of mein,
I ended up watching videos in some *****y resolution,but then I thought this is what I want no matter how graphics look like,i needed something challenging and long lasting + teamwork.
Now when Vietnam mod HD trailer was released,I was so excited cause it pretty much showed how the game in RO2 will look like in front of my LCD.
If there is FFA or TDM in the game,I know for sure I wont play them,so many TDM and FFA I'm burned out,now S&D on the other hand is something I always enjoyed in COD while competing,and FFA or DM was only played for 5 min before tournament as a warm up thing,go in a server with DM mod,slaughter all and off to scrim....
Ok so W4hoo tried playing the game,how about you Knighted,did you try playing RO and after playing it still being convinced that it will be suitable game to have FFA mode in it?
As far as I know there will be TDM type gameplay just called different,but I'm not sure if you can have all the weapons available.
I guess we all have different mentality,to be honest when I heard first of RO2 I looked up on this website and saw the facts thread,and I was woowed,but then I looked for videos on you tube and for some bad luck of mein,
I ended up watching videos in some *****y resolution,but then I thought this is what I want no matter how graphics look like,i needed something challenging and long lasting + teamwork.
Now when Vietnam mod HD trailer was released,I was so excited cause it pretty much showed how the game in RO2 will look like in front of my LCD.
If there is FFA or TDM in the game,I know for sure I wont play them,so many TDM and FFA I'm burned out,now S&D on the other hand is something I always enjoyed in COD while competing,and FFA or DM was only played for 5 min before tournament as a warm up thing,go in a server with DM mod,slaughter all and off to scrim....
I think the whole idea is that those people who come from other gaming communities are assets to TWI and RO2. We should have an healthy discussion with those as they represent another community that we want to embrace RO2, the community that is "people who are interested in RO2 but havent plyed or perhaps heard of RO1". It is exactly those people we shall first listen to, then convince why RO2 will be great for them. If people cannot stay away from giving them the finger eventually, then those people are not doing their part to support TWI.
So if you want to support TWI, do not be so freaky when someone writes stuff like they have done in this thread. It does not matter if they are actually stupid etc. If you want to support TWI, you do as TWI say. Not as what you think they should say
.
So if you want to support TWI, do not be so freaky when someone writes stuff like they have done in this thread. It does not matter if they are actually stupid etc. If you want to support TWI, you do as TWI say. Not as what you think they should say
.
Ok, time to stop lurking ...
I think wahoo4 has a point here. I started playing ROOST in late 2007, and the first couple of games where very frustrating, because I didn't have a clue as to what I was supposed to be doing (and yes, I did read the manual). However, ROHOS should have that covered with the single player campaign where I assume you can practice using the different weapons and class abilities.
As to his suggestion to add "perks" - please no ! I just started playing BFBC2 for a change of pace, and I really hate running into an enemy, getting off the first shot (and hitting) but dying anyway because the other guy has already unlocked magnum ammo or body armor and I haven't. I should be dead because the other player is a better shot, not because he has been playing the game longer and unlocked more stuff than I have.
To Knighted's insistance that the weapons need to be balanced - I disagree. First of all, most weapons of the same class are already pretty well balanced. The bolt-action rifles are very similar (though I prefer the K98's iron sights), the sniper rifles are very similar (here I prefer the Moisin's scope), the pistols are very similar, and the semi-autos are very similar (the G41 is slower to reload than the SVT40, but I can't really tell any other difference). The only really unbalanced weapons are the submachine guns, where the PPsH is better than the MP40 (but since I can't hit the side of a barn with either I don't mind) and the machine guns, where the MG34 is a much better weapon than the DP28, but that can be balanced by giving the Soviets more of them (which would also be historically accurate, I believe).
I think it would be pointless to attempt to balance the different classes of weapons against each other - if you're going to do that, why not just call it a day and give everybody the same weapon. The maps in ROOST generally do a fine job of balancing with class limits (which have the added benefit of preventing "bush wookie" syndrome that plagues BFBC2), so I don't see why ROHOS should be different in that regard. And if you don't like the class limits or really must have your all sniper game - that's what the map editor is for.
Let me close by observing that if you want to play a game like CoDx, just go ahead and play CoDx. Despite what some of the posters here might think or say, there is nothing wrong with that; the only thing wrong is thinking all FPS should be alike.
I think wahoo4 has a point here. I started playing ROOST in late 2007, and the first couple of games where very frustrating, because I didn't have a clue as to what I was supposed to be doing (and yes, I did read the manual
). However, ROHOS should have that covered with the single player campaign where I assume you can practice using the different weapons and class abilities.As to his suggestion to add "perks" - please no ! I just started playing BFBC2 for a change of pace, and I really hate running into an enemy, getting off the first shot (and hitting) but dying anyway because the other guy has already unlocked magnum ammo or body armor and I haven't. I should be dead because the other player is a better shot, not because he has been playing the game longer and unlocked more stuff than I have.
To Knighted's insistance that the weapons need to be balanced - I disagree. First of all, most weapons of the same class are already pretty well balanced. The bolt-action rifles are very similar (though I prefer the K98's iron sights), the sniper rifles are very similar (here I prefer the Moisin's scope), the pistols are very similar, and the semi-autos are very similar (the G41 is slower to reload than the SVT40, but I can't really tell any other difference). The only really unbalanced weapons are the submachine guns, where the PPsH is better than the MP40 (but since I can't hit the side of a barn with either I don't mind
) and the machine guns, where the MG34 is a much better weapon than the DP28, but that can be balanced by giving the Soviets more of them (which would also be historically accurate, I believe). I think it would be pointless to attempt to balance the different classes of weapons against each other - if you're going to do that, why not just call it a day and give everybody the same weapon. The maps in ROOST generally do a fine job of balancing with class limits (which have the added benefit of preventing "bush wookie" syndrome that plagues BFBC2), so I don't see why ROHOS should be different in that regard. And if you don't like the class limits or really must have your all sniper game - that's what the map editor is for.
Let me close by observing that if you want to play a game like CoDx, just go ahead and play CoDx. Despite what some of the posters here might think or say, there is nothing wrong with that; the only thing wrong is thinking all FPS should be alike.
![[TW]Wilsonam](/data/avatars/s/0/10.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
[TW]Wilsonam
VP, Tripwire Int.
On balance:
We won't mess with weapons to make them all neatly balanced with one another. Ain't going to happen. The different weapons are, well, different. The PPSh is a brute - but you can empty a mag very quickly. Eats ammo. MP40 is slower-firing, which is both good and bad. They are different. We like it that way MG34 can overheat way more easily than the DP28. Etc...
The balance comes from map design - and the players' skill.
On perks, heroes etc:
Any "benefits" people gain will be small - and they will often apply to the TEAM, not to the individual - morale being a point in question. We also work to the principle that you should die because someone is better than you at that moment, was smart enough to get the drop on you - NOT because he has spent 130 hours becoming a Lvl6 Berserker...
We won't mess with weapons to make them all neatly balanced with one another. Ain't going to happen. The different weapons are, well, different. The PPSh is a brute - but you can empty a mag very quickly. Eats ammo. MP40 is slower-firing, which is both good and bad. They are different. We like it that way
MG34 can overheat way more easily than the DP28. Etc...The balance comes from map design - and the players' skill.
On perks, heroes etc:
Any "benefits" people gain will be small - and they will often apply to the TEAM, not to the individual - morale being a point in question. We also work to the principle that you should die because someone is better than you at that moment, was smart enough to get the drop on you - NOT because he has spent 130 hours becoming a Lvl6 Berserker...
Why do you guys think FFA would be a good idea? I can see it now..
Spawn in
Get shot by guy camping with mg42
Spawn in
Get shot by guy camping with mg42
Yeah, that will make people love the game. And besides, what kind of sense would it make to be shooting your own side?
Spawn in
Get shot by guy camping with mg42
Spawn in
Get shot by guy camping with mg42
Yeah, that will make people love the game. And besides, what kind of sense would it make to be shooting your own side?
[TW]Wilsonam
VP, Tripwire Int.
Now I know I am picking on pretty much everyone today, but - now it is your turn
And just why do you think we would be dumb enough to produce that sort of gameplay?
How about... an intelligent spawning system which doesn't dump you in choke points or in areas where everyone is already dying? How about protection around the spawn locations? Maps large enough that you DON'T spawn right in someone else's gunsights. It can be done, ya know!
Now I know I am picking on pretty much everyone today, but - now it is your turn
And just why do you think we would be dumb enough to produce that sort of gameplay?
How about... an intelligent spawning system which doesn't dump you in choke points or in areas where everyone is already dying? How about protection around the spawn locations? Maps large enough that you DON'T spawn right in someone else's gunsights. It can be done, ya know!
Spawn in, move 10m
Get shot by guy camping with mg42
Spawn in, move 10m
Get shot by guy camping with mg42
:troll:
Now I know I am picking on pretty much everyone today, but - now it is your turn
And just why do you think we would be dumb enough to produce that sort of gameplay?
How about... an intelligent spawning system which doesn't dump you in choke points or in areas where everyone is already dying? How about protection around the spawn locations? Maps large enough that you DON'T spawn right in someone else's gunsights. It can be done, ya know!
and this is why most people had to suffer 12 - 18 players on mw2 --> it was A REASONABLE NUMBER of people to have on maps that size
believe it or not, I have seen this happening on konigsplatz, with people in that little flak hideout to the right of the 2nd soviet spawn on the 1st cap, constantly mowing down people running out of it. They kinda forgot I had spawn protection when I started shooting at them though :troll:
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Ofcourse you want your game to do as well as it possibly can (we do too), and to make a profit, TWI coulden't live on without some cash flow, but let's be frank here... if all you cared about was the money, maximum profits, then there's a million things you could have done differently, that would have been both easier to make and easier to sell to a wider audience.
You could have made the game for the Xbox360, and just ported it to PS3 and PC like everyone else does to maximise revenue potential, you could have stripped out all the realism and made a bad CoD clone, because that's popular right now, you could have set the game in modern day Afghanistan because that's topical and all the rage at the moment, you didn't even have to include all the innovations Ro2 has, just one of them would have been enough to market the game in today's stagnated market, like everyone else does.
And yet you didn't do any of thease things, even though they would be safe and allmost garuenteed to make a profit, but are taking some actual risks here to bring us something of real quality, with some artistic vision and integrity..
I dare say, Wilsonam, that you are not quite the heartless Capitalist you make yourself out to be
troll, and do feel free to give yourself a little well deserved credit for that!It's also why we love you guys, BTW
You are not telling me anything i don't know there, but man, i really wish you guys would stop using vague terms like "accessible" to describe what you are aiming for here, because it's hell on us fans..
On one side, we have the "Supa realizum" guys, who are foaming at the mouth and going "ohhh my god they have sold out!! Ro2 will just be a CoD clone now and all is lost!" and we have to try and calm thouse guys down, put out the brush fires, and make them understand that the new HUD features, the more intuitive interaction with the gameworld, and the Aim-Zoom isen't going to turn this game into CoD v2.0.
And on the other, we have the new blood coming here expecting (if not infact DEMANDING!) the game to be CoD v2.0, and we have to play the bloody Grinch who stole Christmass, and break it to them that the game will be more "accesible" than the first game in that it'll be smoother and more polished, and much more helpfull twords new players and have a bunch of cool new stuff that will help gameplay, and that it'll be really awesome, but that this doesen't mean it will have killstreaks, that you can't mount red-dot sights and scilencers to all your guns, because that's not really what the game is about.
You're kinda putting us between a rock and a hard place here guys, and all we can do is jump in there and quote and try to explain the stuff that is allready written down on the "HoS Facts" thread, and sometimes it goes well, but other times... yeah, not so much, and we're stuck defending ourselves from guys who either label us as "Cod kiddies", "sellouts" and "retards", or from people who label us "joyless, boring, trainspotting realism freaks who probably live in your mom's basement", and then things can get kinda ugly.
I know you guys really want to reach out to people here, and we do too, we want this game to have lots of players and full servers as much as you do, and we're promoting the game as much as we can, but you'll have to help us to help you, ok?
First of all, it's great that you guys are out there on other forums in other communities chatting people up about the game, and i applaud that, but this place needs you too from time to time, lots of the new blood is comming here, and we could really use your help.
This spat with Knighted for instance, any one of you orange named guys could have put a stop to that ages ago, back when people where still trying to be nice to the guy, if you had just made a quick post explaining how RO2 does game balance, because he obviously wasen't about to take our word for it.. and now it has degenerated into him calling us all elitist a-holes, and us telling him he's a jerk and he needs to play the game before it calls us or TWI idiots who have no understanding of basic game design.
This should not have gotten this far, and as much as we tried to reason with the guy at first, this is a fanbase, and we can't listen to him badmouthing the game, it's developers and this entire community for 30+ posts without getting defensive, thats the nature of community like this.
We needed you guys to mediate this one, but you wheren't there.
But really, what we desperately need from you guys right now, is some gameplay photage, something that we can point to and say "look! this is what Ro2 is, this is why it's going to be awesome, and that is how it will play!", not only so we can promote the game, but just as much because the poo has allready hit the fan, the word is getting out there, but the game is not sending a clear message yet, there's a lot of confusion about what exactly the game is amongst thouse who never played the first one, and even some amongst thouse who have.
We've seen the PAX and Igromir vids, the game looks fantastic, and will most certainly impress people and win some hearts and minds if people just get to see it, and you don't have to wait till the game is in "release candidate" condition to start showing it off, nobody else does, hell, you could release some "Early beta photage" on Youtube, and we'll run with it and get it out there, at no cost to you.
We need to get people on the same page here, and anticipating the game for what it is, and not what they think it may possibly maybe kinda sorta be, because that's not really helping at the moment..
And yes you have put out interviews, a teaser, Ramm has been on Crosshairs and so on, but it's all just words, and it's not reaching a lot of "less hardcore" gamers out there who don't follow internet communities and smaller gaming sites.
Help us to help you, Tripwire, please, we very much want to, but we're wading into combat with soaking wet powder here..
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