Have the new weapons destroyed need for teamplay?

[outofrealman]

Really!! May I ask what is the point of playing a 6lv sharpshooter but you need to take down a fleshpound by 3-4 blots like before? When you are using the xbow, WHAT are you going to use for any other specimens? Can dual hcs help you survive the last few waves on suicidal?
Yes, you can line up specimens and use one blot to kill many of them, but HOW to line them up in most of the maps? I would like to see someone line up more than 10 clots on office and kill them with one blot.
I think 2 shot killing a 6-man suicidal fleshpound is already good enough to balance. One shot killing is not that imbalance, too.

What I want to say is the xbow is a SNIPER, why a sniper can do one head shot killing makes such a problem? Just remove the ability to one shot killing big guys if you are NOT a sharpshooter is already good enough.

If you really think the xbow and M14 and anything are "godlike", I want to ask, can you 100% beat a long game in any map on suicidal?

 

[DocDave]

The new weapons appear pretty well balanced to me for friendly fire.

I disagree, with the exception of the grenade launchers and pipe bombs. However, (and unfortunately, I might add,) 98% of servers are not FF anyway.

 

[gusone]

I might add,) 98% of servers are not FF anyway.

I have a dream one day 98% of servers will be FF. Actually the new guns are balanced because they are so powerful one mistake and you've killed your chum. For a 6 man team that's a 16.7% reduction in firepower assuming everyone has a constant damage output. Or to put it another way in-game handicapping.

 

[DocDave]

I have a dream one day 98% of servers will be FF. Actually the new guns are balanced because they are so powerful one mistake and you've killed your chum. For a 6 man team that's a 16.7% reduction in firepower assuming everyone has a constant damage output. Or to put it another way in-game handicapping.

So a knife is really good by that logic; after all, you'll never kill a teammate with a knife. 6 man knife team gogogo!

Spoiler!

Btw, I really do wish servers were FF by default.

 

[SpurryMoses]

I dont think its destroyed teamplay, but definitely dealt it a blow.
But then again, it wasnt like it was great before.
Before, if you didnt have a zerker to take on scrakes, you were basically screwed unless you got your own katana.
This is a fine balance these game authors have to maintain-and they need to attract new players - tough job.

 

[DarkFenix]

Sharpshooter is absurdly easy to solo with. Has been for a while, and it's nothing to do with the M14 (as ridiculously overpowered as it is). Crossbow, single handcannon, single 9mm. All you need. Crossbow is a oneshot on anything. 9mm and HC are both a oneshot on anything small. Plenty of ammunition. And yes I play suicidal.

 

[Insanity+1]

Its funny how lots of people support there favourite classes uber weapon and then complain about another classes. Its not all about the weapon but also the wielder. Firstly crossbows there not easy headshot a flesh when ur not in an open space and he heading straight for you, when the flesh enrages its alot harder to even get a proper hit depending on his direction. Commando support there weapon becuase it "uses lots of ammo" try turning it off auto then... Stop spraying and try aiming properly. Some people, also seem to think that crossbow is too OP, firslty i think using bow can be annoying and the disadvantages equal the advantages, the bow may do some nice headshot dmg but its has a very slow reload, limited ammo, buyback which may be cheaper but annoying and the fact that it weighs so much, allowing only one other weapon to be carried if i can remeber correctly. People say the pierce should be nerfed, but why cos you watched that stupid video of someone who was in al level where flesh were stacking in a line? have you not noticed flesh are alot larger than most and the chance of having another flesh behind it is very rare. and if there wasnt a pierce effect then ss will never have a chance against any of the swarm and the limited carrying ability doesnt help as one set of pistols has limited ammo. M14 should have a slight ammo nerf or maybe switch the wieght system between crossbow and M14 where M14 weighs the most and crossbow is moderately light (but that also doesnt help with non SS people having the chance to carry bow too). also reduce dmg for all non ss bow users.

 

[nath2009uk]

Firstly crossbows there not easy headshot a flesh when ur not in an open space and he heading straight for you, when the flesh enrages its alot harder to even get a proper hit depending on his direction..

Killed a fp on hard, hip firing, running away, as a medic.
Solo.

But then again, yeah.
Zerkers aren't OP because you can't solo a Scrake with a bunch of crawlers around you.
And Demo is hard to use and not OP because if they get close enough, you'll prolly get Overrun and Die, Amirite?!

 

[DocDave]

My opinion has been changing slightly on the matter, the new weapons are still the cause of an imbalance, but the solution is not to adjust them again, but to:

1. Introduce new weapons for the weaker perks (Or adjust the existing ones, the 'zerker already has tons of choices) to let them do their jobs and keep up with the stronger new weapons.

2. Once all perks are more or less on equal footing again in terms of effectiveness, increase the difficulty of the game.

3. I'd like to see more zeds like the husk that have specific strengths and weaknesses, such as the husk being highly resistant to the flamer, that make variety and coordination of a team worthwhile again. There are many ways to make the game more difficult, however, and a mix might be best.

 

[tuto]

The best solution is remove the new weapons

 

[Bio666]

The best solution is remove the new weapons

Lol

The best solution for traffic accidents is remove all cars, and tell everyone to walk.

Thanks.

 

[DrNasty]

I have a dream one day 98% of servers will be FF. Actually the new guns are balanced because they are so powerful one mistake and you've killed your chum. For a 6 man team that's a 16.7% reduction in firepower assuming everyone has a constant damage output. Or to put it another way in-game handicapping.

I have a dream ... that one day, all of our children will be able to play in the same server, buy from the same Merchant, fire the same guns, and be able to put bullets in each other's brains, regardless of the color of their uniforms, or their player-model. Let it ring, from the streets of West London, to the hallways and corridors of Biotics Lab, from the roof of the Office, and echo among the caverns of the Manor! Let it ring!

(Ontopic: About the SCAR Ammo issue: I felt like I had to faultfind with the SCAR, simply because I didn't want to be biased. I play commando.)

 

[Griever]

The best solution is remove the new weapons

Ha ha ha ha ha ha





no.

 

[9_6]

My opinion has been changing slightly on the matter, the new weapons are still the cause of an imbalance, but the solution is not to adjust them again, but to:

1. Introduce new weapons for the weaker perks (Or adjust the existing ones, the 'zerker already has tons of choices) to let them do their jobs and keep up with the stronger new weapons.

2. Once all perks are more or less on equal footing again in terms of effectiveness, increase the difficulty of the game.

3. I'd like to see more zeds like the husk that have specific strengths and weaknesses, such as the husk being highly resistant to the flamer, that make variety and coordination of a team worthwhile again. There are many ways to make the game more difficult, however, and a mix might be best.

So... instead of going the easy road and trying to balance things now -which would merely require to tweak some variables- until each perk is somewhat equally power/useful (except the firebug but who cares about the firebug noone cares about the firebug so screw the firebug), just say 'ah screw it', keep it the way it is and screw the balance even more over by introducing even more guns, then even more enemies and maybe then, some day far in the future, when the tons of new factors completely sodomized and mutilated what's left from the balance, think about balancing things out which is, by then, probably a lot harder because of all that new stuff that got added?

Awesome!

 

[anthracy]

Since there are now 7 perks and 6 slots, I believe that any game should be winnable missing any ONE perk.

For instance, on 6 person suicidal, it would be very difficult (as the game is now) to beat it without a sharp shooter. The sharp shooter has turned into a game winner.

No one perk should be so heavily needed.

 

[DocDave]

So... instead of going the easy road and trying to balance things now -which would merely require to tweak some variables- until each perk is somewhat equally power/useful (except the firebug but who cares about the firebug noone cares about the firebug so screw the firebug), just say 'ah screw it', keep it the way it is and screw the balance even more over by introducing even more guns, then even more enemies and maybe then, some day far in the future, when the tons of new factors completely sodomized and mutilated what's left from the balance, think about balancing things out which is, by then, probably a lot harder because of all that new stuff that got added?

Awesome!

The new weapons do not need to be adjusted in terms of the old weapons. Every perk needs to be on the same page first to begin with. The difficulty level of the game also needs an increase by some means. Then you can adjust the newer weapons in terms of how well each class does with their own new weapons. Either way would work, but a change that pushes the game development in the direction of new content is ultimately preferrable.

Balance is not actually dependent on how many options or how much content you have or how long the game stays the same. That's simplicity and stagnation.

 

[9_6]

The new weapons do not need to be adjusted in terms of the old weapons, is what I'm saying. Everyone needs to be on the same page first to begin with. Then you can adjust the newer weapons in terms of how well each class does with their own new weapons. Either way would work, but a change that pushes the game development in the direction of new content is ultimately preferrable.

Balance is not actually dependent on how many options or how much content you have or how long the game stays the same. That's simplicity and stagnation.

But every class already is on the same 'power level'.
All perks have at least one weak, one stronger and one strongest weapon in their arsenal so you can already compare how each class fares with each 'tier' of their arms.
In fact there are tons of threads around here who do just that and most come to the conclusion that the sharpshooter fares pretty much best or more like is never really screwed up in all possible situations this game throws at you, even a 6 man suicidal poundamonium game.

The only perk that's missing its weak and strongest version of its class weapon would be the firebug (although you can argue that the fire grenades are the weak weapon but since you only have 5 of those, I think they ahrdly qualify. Also the medic doesn't count) and if what you're trying to say is to give him his molotov-napalm-plasma-orwhatever thrower already then yes, I think that's about the only thing pretty much everyone on this forum agrees on.

They could however still fix some values before throwing it in.
It's not like a fix or new content exclude each other since the fix is done faster and easier than creating completely new content anyway.

 

[DocDave]

They could however still fix some values before throwing it in.It's not like a fix or new content exclude each other since the fix is done faster and easier than creating completely new content anyway.

I don't completely disagree with this. I just don't think minor tweaks will fully adress some of the issues. And, presuming another small content update could be done without too much time passing, it would be better to just focus on that in one step... rather than three steps of rebalance, new content, re-rebalance due to new content/rollback of first rebalance.

 

[9_6]

Fair enough.
It's not like anything we say will change anything about how they ultimately approach things anyway.

 

[DocDave]

Yes; well, but only in the sense that they won't pay attention to details here so much. I'm sure TWI is influenced by the posts on the forums, though it's probably more quantity than quality that counts, and in a general sense too. That's not all bad. For instance, lately there are tons of posts that disagree heavily on the how, but which all are some variation of "fix firebug," "fix berserker" and "balance weapons please." They want to sell, and we're here on the forums telling them how we think they game could be even more worth buying. Word of mouth is good advertising...