Hardcore Realism Suggestions Package and Proposal, to Tripwire, modders and community

[Sarkis.]

Nope. That one is intended, as ross would say, the Russians had no counter to that one, and it does not fully categorize as a sniper rifle. And besides, the gun is not even featured in game..

Maybe you forgot to change that

I never forget to change anything ! I have spoken !

 

[Sarkis.]

Edited OP

Removed Sidearms from being Special Weapons in some classes. They are now only secondaries

 

[ross]

To clarify the ZF 41 - the sight was coupled with a Kar98k and issued more in line with a marksman's weapon than a sniper rifle. Having one or two would not be particularly unrealistic (although they still weren't hugely common, they were more common than just about any of the other 'rare' stuff in the game by a considerable amount), and would not tip the balance of long-range combat as the ZF 41 is practically worthless outside of just extending a rifleman's reach that tiniest little bit. The Soviets had no counterpart to it and stuck with proper scopes versus low-manification long eye relief sights.

Really it should work out fine, especially if he keeps the M38 as an option for riflemen (within reasonable numbers) - Soviets get a rifle which is easier to handle indoors, Germans get one that extends their squads' effective rifle range just a little, and both sides' snipers keep on doing what they already are.

 

[Sarkis.]

Edited OP

Scoped Mosin Nagant with PE scope made a special weapon for Russian Marksmen (still has wrong 3D model)

Added captured DP-28 as a special weapon for the German machine gunners

 

[Sarkis.]

Edited OP

• Unified Hitbox proposal
• No slowdeath, no bandage
• Any damage to the player will deplete all his stamina
• Shots to the legs slowing the player as already is in game
• White bones, ribs, to be ignored
• Kinetic Energy x Distance calculation to be the same system already in game
• Three entirely new hitboxes would have to be modeled: Skeleton, Main Arteries and Steel Helmet

• Realistic Bullet Origin
Player bullet origin matching the muzzle of his weapon in Iron Sights

 

[ross]

Damage suggestion looks good, although the rifle round will still one-hit just about anywhere which is over the top I think. The green areas are mostly flesh and bone, factoring in bone you could base damage off of that so a rifle round through the edge of an arm or hand wouldn't kill in one go. Helmet would only really make a difference against super long range (well beyond most shots people will hit ingame, let alone take regularly), ricochets, pistol-calibre rounds at the edge of their effective range and shrapnel, though - plus look cool when it gets knocked off, like in Ostfront.

Speaking of which... having shrapnel would be great, but sadly I doubt the game can handle it without really dumbing it down. There really is a whole new level of danger in games where it was a thing.

 

[Nezzer]

Damage suggestion looks good, although the rifle round will still one-hit just about anywhere which is over the top I think. The green areas are mostly flesh and bone, factoring in bone you could base damage off of that so a rifle round through the edge of an arm or hand wouldn't kill in one go. Helmet would only really make a difference against super long range (well beyond most shots people will hit ingame, let alone take regularly), ricochets, pistol-calibre rounds at the edge of their effective range and shrapnel, though - plus look cool when it gets knocked off, like in Ostfront.

Speaking of which... having shrapnel would be great, but sadly I doubt the game can handle it without really dumbing it down. There really is a whole new level of danger in games where it was a thing.

I still think rifles should always be one-hit kill in any part of the body below 200m. There's just no way you'd keep fighting if a bullet suddenly ripped 150g of meat off your arm. You'd be basically maimed until getting proper medical help.

 

[ross]

You can and it is a well-documented occurrence. If the round does not pass through bone, a major artery, or sever an entire muscle you are still at least vaguely combat effective. Military rifle rounds are FMJ, they don't expand. Through-and-through wounds can actually be pretty minor depending where they're located.

 

[AtheistIII]

Don't take away the nutshots
Also, as said, the Steelhelmet probably won't make any noticable difference if modelled realistic.

PS:
I think you can take minor hits to face without being incapitated, you can certainly fight on with a bullet through your ear and i would think its possible under certain circumstances if your nose got shot of.
I would make the skull a instakill-zone and the flesh above a 1x-2x-modifier zone

 

[Sarkis.]

Damage suggestion looks good, although the rifle round will still one-hit just about anywhere which is over the top I think. The green areas are mostly flesh and bone, factoring in bone you could base damage off of that so a rifle round through the edge of an arm or hand wouldn't kill in one go. Helmet would only really make a difference against super long range

Is not over the top I think, full battle rifle caliber is absurdly incapacitating let alone lethal. Remember the objective is not to be able to kill the player, just incapacitating. The helmet can be useful to deflect pistol fire or stop pistol rounds at a distance, plus shrapnel of course, but the game does not have sharpnel..

I still think rifles should always be one-hit kill in any part of the body below 200m.

They will be lethal way past that distance in game as in real life

You can and it is a well-documented occurrence. If the round does not pass through bone, a major artery, or sever an entire muscle you are still at least vaguely combat effective. Military rifle rounds are FMJ, they don't expand. Through-and-through wounds can actually be pretty minor depending where they're located.

For 5.56 or 7.62x39 at some distance I believe.. but for 8mm mauser ?

Don't take away the nutshots
Also, as said, the Steelhelmet probably won't make any noticable difference if modelled realistic.

PS:
I think you can take minor hits to face without being incapitated, you can certainly fight on with a bullet through your ear and i would think its possible under certain circumstances if your nose got shot of.
I would make the skull a instakill-zone and the flesh above a 1x-2x-modifier zone

I'm not taking away nut shots or heart or anything, I'm just not applying any extra multiplicators to take account of nut shots. Ears and nose are not part of the current hitbox IIRC. So yeah, I'm not counting them either then. Flesh above the skull ?

 

[ross]

Yes, for 7.92x57 and 7.62x54r and various other full-power cartridges, too. You are putting too much faith in the words 'rifle round' and not enough in human resilience and adrenaline. A flesh wound from a rifle is still just that - a flesh wound.

 

[AtheistIII]

Flesh above the skull ?

For grazing shots to the head in general.
I guess they have a good chance to knock someone out, but are not as incapitating as a bullet to your brain.

Anyways, its late night, chances are that i read my posts tomorrow and don't remember how i came to post such a sh*t, so everything i post right now is to be taken at own risk

 

[Sarkis.]

Yes, for 7.92x57 and 7.62x54r and various other full-power cartridges, too. You are putting too much faith in the words 'rifle round' and not enough in human resilience and adrenaline. A flesh wound from a rifle is still just that - a flesh wound.

Resilience and adrenaline are good enough to survive, but direct hits from full battle rifle will knock you cold, living or dying, going to the hospital or frezzing to death, you are gone from the fight. If there are documented cases then i'll be impressed... 8mm mauser will cut your hand right off if it hits your wrist. If it hits your hand it will leave a nice little hole, but right there, there is no way you pick up weapons and go shooting again. But a direct hit to your belly or chest. That is dead certain, if there is one thing that is a fact in life is that those bullets will make you kiss the earth. And should you kiss the earth, I really don't think it is appropriate for us to let our virtual dudes survive such punishment, get up again and go running back into fight. Don't really care if such a thing is survivable afterwards. Saw a video days ago, fighting in Syria, guy got hit in front of the camera after putting down some shots, was a big guy. One single hit from 7.62

 

[ross]

Resilience and adrenaline are good enough to survive, but direct hits from full battle rifle will knock you cold, living or dying, going to the hospital or frezzing to death, you are gone from the fight. If there are documented cases then i'll be impressed... 8mm mauser will cut your hand right off if it hits your wrist. If it hits your hand it will leave a nice little hole, but right there, there is no way you pick up weapons and go shooting again. But a direct hit to your belly or chest. That is dead certain, if there is one thing that is a fact in life is that those bullets will make you kiss the earth. And should you kiss the earth, I really don't think it is appropriate for us to let our virtual dudes survive such punishment, get up again and go running back into fight. Don't really care if such a thing is survivable afterwards. Saw a video days ago, fighting in Syria, guy got hit in front of the camera after putting down some shots, was a big guy. One single hit from 7.62

 

[PhoenixDragon]

I'd put up my criticisms of the latest damage model proposal, but it'd basically be identical to my previous one. Particularly the absolute lack of any (effective) variability for rifle-round hits to different locations.

If you're going to do a damage system that requires such an overhaul of the current system, why keep hitpoints at all?

 

[Sarkis.]

shooting ballistic gel with colt 22 pistol, M&P 15-22, and 30-06 rifle - YouTube

 

[ross]

There is a huge leap between ballistic gel and actual people. If you want to render people combat ineffective (and therefore dead) ingame due to even a minor hit with a rifle round, do it with every bullet. It does not sit well with either realism or gameplay concerns. You can take hits from rifle-calibre rounds and not only survive but continue fighting for some time, as long as you are hit somewhere fairly unimportant and the bleeding is not too drastic. I wouldn't be arguing if I had not heard and read about this happening, regularly, particularly during WWII.

I would also expect that video was recorded using modern hunting ammo, which is considerably heavier than WWII military rounds and is also expanding.

 

[Sarkis.]

If you want to render people combat ineffective (and therefore dead) ingame due to even a minor hit with a rifle round, do it with every bullet.

I practically did that. But OK you guys win. Not every shot will always be a kill or take you completely out of the fight. But what also rests as fact is that if you are wounded, even if a minor wound, you will be rotated back from the fight, back to an aid station, or the rear or whatever there is available. And you won't fight as well as before, you will have to stop your bleeding at some point. Thing is in RO2, shots that don't kill you don't do anything but take hitpoints away. And things like: ''you got shot in your arm muscle therefore your recoil, sway will increase a percentage'' are also pretty far from realistic. It's damn hard to achieve a proper realistic hitbox that is realistic and also will lack all sorts of loopholes that lead to crazy things happening in game like our limbs that can take multiple hits.

So fine, suggest away and I'll try and improve, or create your own hitboxes, and let's analize them.

For me even minor wounds should be enough to kill off players, it would work really well in game. Disconsidering whatever would happen after a person is hit and only giving the victory to the shooter.

 

[Sarkis.]

To add up: reason why I want players to get easily killed is because our in game soldiers that survive wounds go on to fight and perform all sorts of actions like mantling, sprinting, dolphin diving, hipfiring machine guns, jumping and being super agile. Things a guy with a lucky grazing full battle rifle wound, he resisted, would not allow him to do. Is one thing to keep idle firing a Maxim machinegun with a cut in your arm from a grazing hit. Another is to take off and fight the war be a hero pretending you don't care about the wound

 

[Proud_God]

Remember my suggestion above to differentiate between combat ineffective and death.