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Hans Volter feedback, build 1009

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CrashFu

CrashFu

Grizzled Veteran
May 11, 2014
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Ohio
#1
Hans seems to have seen a lot of balancing for this build!

In particular, I noticed that he's MUCH better balanced to the lower difficulties. Previously, a team that gets through every wave on Normal effortlessly would still struggle to defeat Hans and fail more often than not. Not so any longer.

There's been a noticeable nerf to Hans' speed and aggression. By which I mean I was able to kite him for a while at 15/15 weight, playing last night. :p
He also seems less interested in using his guns, or delays longer between when he gets them out and when he'll actually shoot at someone.

His health / certain resistances are still SUPER high however. That's usually not a problem, unless the team gets down to one person and that person happens to have explosive weapons. C4 and RPGs barely even tickle Hans on the lowest difficulty. :(

Really loving the forcefield effect, it makes it really obvious when you should not bother attacking. The grenade visuals are also nice, visible but not excessive; you still have to look around and pay attention to where you're standing.


Now that's from goofing around on Normal, and like I said at the beginning it's great that he's easier to defeat there now, because that means players will feel more comfortable graduating to Hard difficulty.

I intend to play some Hard after work today; in the meantime, what do the people playing on Hard and above think of Hans on this build of the game?
 
#2
That's a really good summary there, I think I agree with everything. I think the explosive damage resistance could do with being reduced slightly, although it's possible that patriarch, or a certain other boss could be weak to explosives, which may make up for it instead. A class shouldn't feel useless in a boss wave, though...
 
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#4
I saw his melee attacks got a boost in terms of being unparryable. This would affect zerks primarily. As zerks have been boosted big time in a good way, this evens out to a degree but zerks should still be able to contest with Hans in melee. Maybe not do the most damage, but being able to draw focus and nullify/reduce effectiveness of his melee would be a very useful utility for the berserker.
 
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#8
Aleflippy said:
Hans is still pretty annoying to fight solo but he's way more fair know which is certainly a welcomed change . And yes,his explosive resistance is ridiculous. At NORMAL difficulty I used my whole C4 and rocket launcher ammo pool and it didn't kill him! I know that I wasn't at a high level but still !
Click to expand...

Same. Hit him with all of my rockets (and most were DIRECT hits, too) all my C4s (at least one of which I throw ONTO him while he was distracted. Does that do bonus damage? It should)

and then I kited him around the map looking for ammo boxes. I htink three times after I had completely ran out of explosives, I grabbed an ammo box and hit him with another rocket and another C4, and it still wasn't enough to kill him. On normal. After that what was I supposed to kill him with, my dual 9mms? :p


I really don't think any of the BOSSES should have significant resistance to ANTHING. It's so weird to say "Okay, you've been playing that perk for the past 10 waves, now sell all your weapons and switch to a different perk so you can actually help in the last wave"
 
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#9
ComradeHX said:
Still impossible to deal significant damage with commando weapons on 6-man run(buy as many AA-12 as possible to compensate).

People complain about Demo but Commando is okay?
Click to expand...

No one expects the commando to be a good big guy killer. Sure he can kill a scrake efficiently if it's emp'd, but otherwise leave it to the real damage dealers.

Demo though, was the anti-crowd, anti-FP, anti-boss class. And now he's good at crowds, acceptable at FPs, but literally the worst class at fighting the boss. So he's only good at ~50% of what the class is expected to do.

Commando, on the other hand, is the best at midrange capping trash, as he's always been.
 
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#11
I think fighting him solo as a berserker is one of the most fun things I've ever done in a video game in my life.

Especially going from how powerful he was before.
Parrying his attacks and having him fall backwards, being able to stagger him by stabbing him in the power core, actually having him note that you just hurt him by heavy attacking him in the head.

It's so exhilarating.

They did a good job of giving him weaknesses while still giving him a massive threat IMO.
 
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#12
I feel like his melee does a bit too much damage. Don't get me wrong, he's much better now, but his melee damage needs to be toned down. I was playing a 6 Man Hard game, and we all got him down to his second phase with no problem. He then proceeded to go on a melee rampage and two-shot everybody that wasn't a Berserker. So the Zerker was left to kite around the map, until he got stuck on a wall and got killed by Hans. If his melee did a bit less damage he would be perfect.
 
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#13
Quintuplin said:
No one expects the commando to be a good big guy killer. Sure he can kill a scrake efficiently if it's emp'd, but otherwise leave it to the real damage dealers.

Demo though, was the anti-crowd, anti-FP, anti-boss class. And now he's good at crowds, acceptable at FPs, but literally the worst class at fighting the boss. So he's only good at ~50% of what the class is expected to do.

Commando, on the other hand, is the best at midrange capping trash, as he's always been.
Click to expand...

Commando does not have to be a good big-guy killer.

Commando needs enough(as in a LOT more) ammo to just be ABLE to kill Hans without resorting to buying offperk weapons(like AA-12) or knife...

What's Commando supposed to do when fighting Hans? Shoot only the paltry amount of trash that spawns(and generally dies to splash damage of demo)?
Or just switch class?

IIRC people hated Demo in KF1 for smoking up everything when he shoots anything, so that works against team, making demo merely acceptable against boss(after chain C4 no longer works).

At least Demo actually has a skill that increases offperk weapon damage, making demo AA-12 better than commando AA-12.
 
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#14
The boss still makes no sense. He's a bullet sponge and hes not wearing any armour on his chest/head so how does he even swallow a lot of bullets? The tank from l4d2 made sense but Hans is stark naked without muscles.
Spoiler!


In the update he seems to be working pretty good I guess. I can easily kill him with microwave gun on solo easily.
 
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#15
CrashFu said:
I really don't think any of the BOSSES should have significant resistance to ANTHING. It's so weird to say "Okay, you've been playing that perk for the past 10 waves, now sell all your weapons and switch to a different perk so you can actually help in the last wave"
Click to expand...

I think some resistance should be in order to spice up how you approach a boss fight, but still it shouldn't be as enormous as Hans' resistance to explosive.

And about switching perk, although it's okay as we have one boss for now, but I guess when multiple bosses will be there, the boss we'll fight will be random... So if every specific boss have a "that high" resistance to something (slashing / bullet / fire / explosives), then whatever class you chose, it's a roll of a dice: there's a chance you'll be totally useless during the boss fight.
 
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#17
If we're talking about HOW Hans tanks so much damage, the newly added forcefield effects really add to that explanation. I mean, beyond that he's obviously had some work done to his body, so he's going to be tougher than a normal human the same way zeds are.

And since he's (presumably) a super high-up officer in the Patriarch's army, they aren't going to spare any expenses on modifying this guy. Not like all those throw-away clots. Might have some extensive mechanical work under the skin, who knows... ... but mostly the forcefields.


And yeah, if we had multiple bosses available, and they were completely randomized up until wave 11 (or equivelent) begins, and each was resistant to different damage types, then the imbalance would be okay I guess. But then, if you choose "wrong" what is your role supposed to be after that? Throwing yourself in harm's way and being live bait, since if you wind up the last man standing you will have NO chance of winning? It's not like other zeds show up often enough during the boss wave that you can stay useful just covering them..
 
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#18
CrashFu said:
Hans seems to have seen a lot of balancing for this build!

In particular, I noticed that he's MUCH better balanced to the lower difficulties. Previously, a team that gets through every wave on Normal effortlessly would still struggle to defeat Hans and fail more often than not. Not so any longer.

There's been a noticeable nerf to Hans' speed and aggression. By which I mean I was able to kite him for a while at 15/15 weight, playing last night. :p
He also seems less interested in using his guns, or delays longer between when he gets them out and when he'll actually shoot at someone.

His health / certain resistances are still SUPER high however. That's usually not a problem, unless the team gets down to one person and that person happens to have explosive weapons. C4 and RPGs barely even tickle Hans on the lowest difficulty. :(

Really loving the forcefield effect, it makes it really obvious when you should not bother attacking. The grenade visuals are also nice, visible but not excessive; you still have to look around and pay attention to where you're standing.


Now that's from goofing around on Normal, and like I said at the beginning it's great that he's easier to defeat there now, because that means players will feel more comfortable graduating to Hard difficulty.

I intend to play some Hard after work today; in the meantime, what do the people playing on Hard and above think of Hans on this build of the game?
Click to expand...

The only things i didnt like so far are that Hans gas on Normal does only like 2 dmg per tick, thats an incredible nerf if you ask me and second being that Zeds no longer run in Hard.
 
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#19
you sell gear for something like 80% of purchase price, so switch. Honestly I don't get what folks' major malfunction is with this.

Pick a class you like, to plow through the early waves. Make sure your team is equipped to deal with the big guys in the later waves, possibly changing classes to do so. Then for boss, grab one of the two or three classes who are most effective at fighting that specific boss, and grind him to dust.

Class choice is a game mechanic, it adds something to the game for it to make you think about and even switch classes sometimes.
 
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#20
At higher difficulties hans is way harder than before. Okay most of this is due to the lack of circle strafe which was deserved but he periodically pulls off some kind of untelegraphed instant oneshot attack. There is barely any noticeable animation to it but it immediatly takes out 150/100 supports and almost kills 200/100 zerkers.
It comes so unexpected, fast and unfair out of the blue that people have already reported it as a bug (lol):

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=111781

In addition, after leeching on to someone he may turn immediatly to his slashing attacks instead of a grenade salvo - robbing his leech victim of any chance to avoid the flurry (and insta kill it if it's a squishy firebug or lowhealth). A nasty move which he didn't have before afaik.
 
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