Gunslinger Perk - Yes or No?

[9_6]

Sure it would be fun but like I said earlier I dont think it would be a good idea to give him a revolver because it steps too much into sharpshooters territory.

This perk steps all over every other perks territory already.

 

[Deafmute]

This would allow for a reload speed on par with a magazine, however if it was used the revolver would become as overpowered as the M14.

So why would you suggest it? o_o

 

[Zeron]

I've never actually seen a game reload a revolver shell by shell, all of them use quickloaders. I don't see how a quickloader would completely overpower the revolver.

 

[Unit-05]

the gunslinger is ment to be the jack of all trades, but master of none. long range (revolver), medium (hand cannons), and close range (9mm)

While he can fit in any role he is put into, we dont want him to be as good as the other perks are ment for.

 

[EricFong]

I've never actually seen a game reload a revolver shell by shell, all of them use quickloaders. I don't see how a quickloader would completely overpower the revolver.

If you unlock the M500 in resident evil 4, before you upgrade it into infinite ammo, Leon reload it shell by shell, until you upgrade it. :IS2:

 

[Undedd Jester]

Very Basic Gameplay Test!!!

Just out of interest I tested my theory on the potential application of the gunslinger (with effective damage and what not) and went into a solo suicidal game using perk replacement mut.

For a refresher here are the stats I proposed again for quick reference

Spoiler!

__________________________________________________ __
|_LvL | _PD _|_AM_ |_ RL_ |_DW _|_HF_ |_SP_ |_RSt_|_RSi_|
| _0_ |_+5% | _ _ _ |+5%_|_ _ __|_ _ _ |_ _ _ |+10%| _ __ |
| _1_ |+10% |+10% |+10%|_+5% |+5%_|+5%_|+15%|+5%_|
| _2_ |+15% |+15% |+20%|_+5% |+5%_|+5%_|+20%|+10%|
| _3_ |+20% |+20% |+30%|_+5% |+10%|+10%|+25%|+20%|
| _4_ |+30% |+25% |+40%|+10% |+10%|+10%|+35%|+30%|
| _5_ |+40% |+30% |+50%|+10% |+10%|+15%|+50%|+40%|
| _6_ |+50% |+30% |+50%|+10% |+15%|+15%|+75%|+50%|

LvL = Level
PD = Pistol Damage
AM = Ammo
RL = Reload speed
DW = damage Dual Wielding
HF = damage Hip Fire
SP = Run Speed
RSt = Resistance to Stun (see below)
RSi = Resistance to Sirens Scream

Orange = Optional

I made myself a level 4 Sharpshooter since that is slightly more damage than I projected for the gunslinger (to counteract the extra 40% damage on headshots only requirement). I had it so that I would only use pistols and generally fired from the hip, and then upgraded them and used dual wielding. The reload speed of the Sharpshooter also complimented an aspect of my idea for the Gunslinger.

My immediate observations were as follows: -
- Despite using long range pistols, the gunslinger had to move in fairly close tand fall back again o make full use of his hip fire damage and especially his dual wield bonus. Accuracy is a problem so some way of closing the field down to your target is a required skill for the perk. Reloading also does present a number of challenges, even with the fast reload. This does alter the gameplay of the GUnslinger to one similar to the Support Specialist, but with more precision, giving him a rather unique play style. Good Gunslinger will be the players who excel at firing with instict from the hip to go for the headshot. +SP +DW +HF +RL
- The resistance to stun affects would most definately not be overpowered. I got hit by a bloat while my armour was down and I died very very fast. When caught in a Siren scream I was pretty badly wounded and luckily I was able to hit the gorefast in teh face before he finished me off. These effects cause alot of damage to the player, and although he would be able to see during them, he most defiantely doesn't want to get caught in them. They may however aid in his survival, and resistance to Siren scream would most definately come in handy when caught in big mobs all together. +RSt +RSi
- Ammo was a slight issue, I burned through my supplies rather quickly, even on my 9mm pistols, and that was with only 60 specimens. This was mostly due to large specimens causing me issues. Of course I did lack the body damage the gunslinger would have, but the perk demostrates a difficulty finishing foes efficiently, especially the bigger ones like Scrakes and FP's. +AM (although debatable if he is added a revolver)

Overall I stick by my suggestions and my propsed stats. If you want to have a go I tested it on biotics as that level is classic, typical Killing Floor gameplay IMO. Use PerkRplacement mut and set it to Level 4. Pick SHarpshooter, and make sure you don't use ADS as much as possible, and try to use dual wield. I'm sure you'll see what I mean.

 

[CandleJack]

So why would you suggest it? o_o

Because right now, the thread is:

"pro gunslinger"

"anti gunslinger"

"you're retarded"

"no you are"

And back and forth. I wanted to make a break in this with a suggestion.

 

[brphoenix]

Very Basic Gameplay Test!!!

Just out of interest I tested my theory on the potential application of the gunslinger (with effective damage and what not) and went into a solo suicidal game using perk replacement mut.

For a refresher here are the stats I proposed again for quick reference

Spoiler!

__________________________________________________ __
|_LvL | _PD _|_AM_ |_ RL_ |_DW _|_HF_ |_SP_ |_RSt_|_RSi_|
| _0_ |_+5% | _ _ _ |+5%_|_ _ __|_ _ _ |_ _ _ |+10%| _ __ |
| _1_ |+10% |+10% |+10%|_+5% |+5%_|+5%_|+15%|+5%_|
| _2_ |+15% |+15% |+20%|_+5% |+5%_|+5%_|+20%|+10%|
| _3_ |+20% |+20% |+30%|_+5% |+10%|+10%|+25%|+20%|
| _4_ |+30% |+25% |+40%|+10% |+10%|+10%|+35%|+30%|
| _5_ |+40% |+30% |+50%|+10% |+10%|+15%|+50%|+40%|
| _6_ |+50% |+30% |+50%|+10% |+15%|+15%|+75%|+50%|

LvL = Level
PD = Pistol Damage
AM = Ammo
RL = Reload speed
DW = damage Dual Wielding
HF = damage Hip Fire
SP = Run Speed
RSt = Resistance to Stun (see below)
RSi = Resistance to Sirens Scream

Orange = Optional

I made myself a level 4 Sharpshooter since that is slightly more damage than I projected for the gunslinger (to counteract the extra 40% damage on headshots only requirement). I had it so that I would only use pistols and generally fired from the hip, and then upgraded them and used dual wielding. The reload speed of the Sharpshooter also complimented an aspect of my idea for the Gunslinger.

My immediate observations were as follows: -
- Despite using long range pistols, the gunslinger had to move in fairly close tand fall back again o make full use of his hip fire damage and especially his dual wield bonus. Accuracy is a problem so some way of closing the field down to your target is a required skill for the perk. Reloading also does present a number of challenges, even with the fast reload. This does alter the gameplay of the GUnslinger to one similar to the Support Specialist, but with more precision, giving him a rather unique play style. Good Gunslinger will be the players who excel at firing with instict from the hip to go for the headshot. +SP +DW +HF +RL
- The resistance to stun affects would most definately not be overpowered. I got hit by a bloat while my armour was down and I died very very fast. When caught in a Siren scream I was pretty badly wounded and luckily I was able to hit the gorefast in teh face before he finished me off. These effects cause alot of damage to the player, and although he would be able to see during them, he most defiantely doesn't want to get caught in them. They may however aid in his survival, and resistance to Siren scream would most definately come in handy when caught in big mobs all together. +RSt +RSi
- Ammo was a slight issue, I burned through my supplies rather quickly, even on my 9mm pistols, and that was with only 60 specimens. This was mostly due to large specimens causing me issues. Of course I did lack the body damage the gunslinger would have, but the perk demostrates a difficulty finishing foes efficiently, especially the bigger ones like Scrakes and FP's. +AM (although debatable if he is added a revolver)

Overall I stick by my suggestions and my propsed stats. If you want to have a go I tested it on biotics as that level is classic, typical Killing Floor gameplay IMO. Use PerkRplacement mut and set it to Level 4. Pick SHarpshooter, and make sure you don't use ADS as much as possible, and try to use dual wield. I'm sure you'll see what I mean.

Wow

I like what you did there.

Despite not being able to fully do it, you provided a decent in-depth of the perk.

My guess is that adding the revolver will make a great change to the playstyle you had there, since you won't burn through your ammo against the tougher guys, leaving you more breathing room.
How bad was the lack of ammo?

Just a quick question. You picked level4 sharpshooter to "replace" a level 6 gunslinger, right?

 

[HaTeMe]

This perk steps all over every other perks territory already.

Yes as it was supposed to, which makes me wonder why everyones so worried about Sharpshooter.

 

[Undedd Jester]

Wow

I like what you did there.

Despite not being able to fully do it, you provided a decent in-depth of the perk.

My guess is that adding the revolver will make a great change to the playstyle you had there, since you won't burn through your ammo against the tougher guys, leaving you more breathing room.
How bad was the lack of ammo?

Just a quick question. You picked level4 sharpshooter to "replace" a level 6 gunslinger, right?

Thanks

It was a solo game with alot fewer specimens, the ammo wasn't much of an issue perce'. I used just HC's for a wave and found I just ran out at the last couple of specimens...

But I know from my playing the Firebug, in solo he always had plenty of ammo, it was in 6 man games he had to watch his fire really. So in a 6 man game with more specimens with higher health, if the Gunslinger needs to take on more than his fair share for whatever reason, his Handcannons will be gone like lightning, and his pistols will be burned through rather rapidly too (Although in fairness it's a hard style of play to be disciplined with ).

As I say with the Revolver for big specimens would be very handy. I was tempted to consider using a LAR to reflect it, and trying to hip fire that to reflect the +HF bonus, and always reload it before it dropped below 4 bullets in the chamber. But I couldn't be arsed

Yeah I went as a Level 4 Sharpshooter, the reload bonus AND the damage I worked out were approximately the same

Spoiler!

Recoil for Sharpshooter = 40%, Gunslinger would have 50%

Damage wise L6 Gunslinger would have
+50% Pistol Damage
+15% Hip Fire Damage
+10% Dual Wield Damage
= approx +89% Overall Damage

L4 Sharpshooter has
+30% Pistol Damage
+40% Headshot Bonus
= approz +82% Damage
Although I actually thought the SS got 40% damage for pistol when I first calculated it, so I thought it was higher than it was, but he does have a recoil reduction of +75% so I'm counting it negligable.

I chose level 4 because level 5 for Sharpshooter is a real big jump. Your looking at a Damage boost of +125%

It aint perfect but it does give you an insight

 

[9_6]

Yes as it was supposed to, which makes me wonder why everyones so worried about Sharpshooter.

Wait...
Then why did you say revolvers would be bad because they'd invade SS territory earlier?

 

[CandleJack]

Wait...
Then why did you say revolvers would be bad because they'd invade SS territory earlier?

...what just happened.

 

[timur]

...what just happened.

and we never got an answer.

I bump this because I'd like to see the opinions of the many new users.

 

[C_Gibby]

Well, if you want my opinion, I'm very, very disheartened that the gunslinger was not added at all in this update but wouldn't it be a nice idea if some modders were to try and code this perk with all the correct functions and all TWI would have to do is code it into the game?

 

[9_6]

Well, if you want my opinion, I'm very, very disheartened that the gunslinger was not added at all in this update but wouldn't it be a nice idea if some modders were to try and code this perk with all the correct functions and all TWI would have to do is code it into the game?

Are perks even something you can mod in?

 

[C_Gibby]

Are perks even something you can mod in?

Nope.

But I'm thinking that a modder can look at the coding of the existing perks and then with a bit of theory work, create a block of code for a new perk made in a way that it could work in the game. Then of course, it has to be added in, but a modder cannot do that, it seems.

 

[timur]

Nope.

But I'm thinking that a modder can look at the coding of the existing perks and then with a bit of theory work, create a block of code for a new perk made in a way that it could work in the game. Then of course, it has to be added in, but a modder cannot do that, it seems.

what if TWI added in a locked perk slot? Thereby allowing for new perks to be made by modders as well?

Just like I think that locked char slots for the purpose of extra chars would be useful.

 

[HaTeMe]

Wait...
Then why did you say revolvers would be bad because they'd invade SS territory earlier?

Because it seems like everyone whos against the Gunslinger use this as an argument against the supporters.

They bypass the fact that this is supposed to be an all-rounder perk, and only whine how its going to be "just another sharpshooter". I dont know why but thats what they say. And the fact some people are going to give him a high power revolver which requires accuracy to use efficently, only fuels the fire. If you know what I mean?

 

[CandleJack]

Because it seems like everyone whos against the Gunslinger use this as an argument against the supporters.

They bypass the fact that this is supposed to be an all-rounder perk, and only whine how its going to be "just another sharpshooter". I dont know why but thats what they say. And the fact some people are going to give him a high power revolver which requires accuracy to use efficently, only fuels the fire. If you know what I mean?

I guess i know what you mean. Though i'm now going to do a phoenix and tell them to read the thread; at least the OP.

Having a weapon that you need accuracy to use efficiently is no different from every single other weapon in KF. You want to make the most from Commando? Accuracy. You don't want to waste ammo with Firebug? Accuracy. You want to do good damage as demo? Accuracy, to some degree. You want to make the most of every shotgun shell as Support? Get closer . You want to hit players every time with the MP7 as Medic? Accuracy. You want to take the Scrake down as quickly as possible? Accuracy.

Every perk uses accuracy, it's only that Sharpshooter is focused on pinpoint accuracy, and that it's the "accurate" perk that people hone in on. How many SCAR-using Commandos are more accurate than M14-spamming Sharpshooters? And which one is supposed to be sniping?

When the M14 was given to Sharpshooter, did everyone call it "just another commando" when they got a weapon that functioned quite similarly? I guess they didn't. If you focus solely on the Tier 3 GS weapon and forget about the primary weapons then you're ignoring a critical component of the perk.

The fire-power of the DHCs and D9mms. And maybe the Mac-11s or dual Mac-10s
This perk wouldn't be replacing the Sharpshooter any time soon, with my vision of Gunslinger taking down a Scrake with a full cylinder of Revolver ammo, plus 2 mags from 2 Handcannons if you're going for bodyshots.

The Revolver people are hailing as the weapon that makes Gunslinger into another Sharpshooter would not pack anywhere near as much of a punch they think it will. Not enough to instantly kill a Scrake or Fleshpound, surely.

I'm gonna wrap this up now, i could probably go all night

 

[Vaecrius]

They bypass the fact that this is supposed to be an all-rounder perk, and only whine how its going to be "just another sharpshooter". I dont know why but thats what they say. And the fact some people are going to give him a high power revolver which requires accuracy to use efficently, only fuels the fire. If you know what I mean?

But we already have an all-rounder perk the commando.

There's just no "gunslinger" concept developed, and I don't think there's one possible that would reasonably be described by such a name, that would add anything new - or at least anything both new and worthwhile - to KF's gameplay. Aesthetics, maybe, but personally I neither want nor expect KF to go in such a direction ever.