Gunslinger Perk - Yes or No?

[timur]

Commando is overpowered.
That's for a different time though.

What I was trying to get at was the fact that Sharpshooter can pretty much prevail any situation, but the one situation that might kill him is the one mentioned above with all crawlers and everything.

BUT, that wouldn't stop a Gunslinger, which can also tackle any situation much like the Sharpshooter, yet the one sharpie weakness, isn't a weakness for the Gunslinger.

I recall brphoenix saying something along the lines of "Gunslinger is effective against everything, but not overpowered"

In a brief answer (If possible), How?

Don't tell me to read the entire thread.

I think the line was "It was decent against everything, but not particularly good at any one thing" or perhaps that it can't take out larger specimens easily, yet it can do more damage/survive better than a commando in that situation.

Also, the commando would still be better at clearing mobs.

Its more of a perk compromise, the way I heard it.

And on another note........over 1000 posts here! If that isn't the longest thread in TWI forums history, I dont know what is.

 

[SMIFF]

I think the line was "It was decent against everything, but not particularly good at any one thing" or perhaps that it can't take out larger specimens easily, yet it can do more damage/survive better than a commando in that situation.

Also, the commando would still be better at clearing mobs.

Its more of a perk compromise, the way I heard it.

No perk should be able to take on everything, EVERY perk should have at least 2 major weaknesses.

And brphoenix is pitching a perk that can tackle ALL situations somewhat effectively? Yeah sure it might not be as good as other perks when it comes to their strong points, but it won't be anywhere near as bad as other perks when it comes to their weak points.

Why do you think most people choose Medic over the Berserker when melee'ing?

Because Medic has an overall much better chance of survival than Berserker.

The Gunslinger would be to all perks, what the Medic is to Berserker.

 

[9_6]

Just like the commando.

I thought you guys came up with something unique that would give it a reason to exist already?
Versatility isn't exactly that key point that sells this. The support specialist is just as versatile.
There are no archenemies for him either.

Did you make up your mind on any specifics just yet?
Like what unique key abilities does this perk have?
Only more damage during zed time is kinda... weak.

All other perks have more than one unique trait.

????

 

[CandleJack]

What i think GS should be is quite simple. You all know the scene from The Matrix where Neo walks through the metal detector, pulls out guns and pwns everyone? You know, pulling out more guns after the previous have been emptied and then using them? This is kind of what i think GunSlinger should be more like. Using 9mms, empty them. Switch to G18s, empty them. Switch to HCs, empty them. Pull out the .500, empty it. Begin the long reloading process. Being able to pull out numerous weapons and shoot a wall of bullets like a Commando with the pup and AK, but not the same.

With the large number of loaded weapons, Gunslinger can pull of a large number of individual kills with a long reload as the weakness. Like Support but not the same.

Being able to kill the stronger specs when the right circumstances appear, like the Support or Commando. Killing the larger specs requires skill, a halfway competent team and the right amount of room.

For instance, GS can take down the scrakes in a similar way to Commando, but with more ammo used. It takes half a mag from a bullpup/AK and half from a SCAR to kill a scrake with about 20-30m between them.
With a revolver as the final weapon he can take down Fleshpounds, but he'd need a long hallway to pull this off and would need luck and help to manage.

The whole idea would be based around versatility and being able to do every job. But not as good as the perks that also do the same job. This could be through using more ammo to accomplish the same thing, or something else; but the point is: yes GS can do your job. No it can't do it as well as you.

This perk could see use in pub games when the team is a wildcard and you don't know what perk to go. Oh, they already have a sharpshooter, i'll go something else.
He's using an M14. dun dun dunn.... "your squad has been wiped out."

If there was a GS on the team this could have been avoided with the perk's versatility.

If you say that Gunslinger shouldn't be added because it does the same thing as other perks, then by this logic Demo shouldn't have been added. It did the same thing as Commando and Firebug; it even contributed to the decline of Firebug's popularity.

If this perk is redundant, then a Zerdic makes Berserker redunant, as does Commando with a katana.

 

[Aze]

What i think GS should be is quite simple. You all know the scene from The Matrix where Neo walks through the metal detector, pulls out guns and pwns everyone? You know, pulling out more guns after the previous have been emptied and then using them? This is kind of what i think GunSlinger should be more like. Using 9mms, empty them. Switch to G18s, empty them. Switch to HCs, empty them. Pull out the .500, empty it. Begin the long reloading process. Being able to pull out numerous weapons and shoot a wall of bullets like a Commando with the pup and AK, but not the same.

With the large number of loaded weapons, Gunslinger can pull of a large number of individual kills with a long reload as the weakness. Like Support but not the same.

This! ^
This was something i had in plan of how to use the GS if it was implement
Gunslinger, the awesomeness perk
(In fact i sorta do it somtimes with the Sharpie already, using Dual 9mms and HCs. It's really fun, but more pistols and a dedicated perk for it would be much more awesome!)

 

[EricFong]

Commando is overpowered.
That's for a different time though.

Since they added SCAR, Commando is good balance enough, he may seem too over power when facing Minor zed, but that is his job.

And when you facing extra fp and scrake you need team play.

 

[C_Gibby]

Since they added SCAR, Commando is good balance enough, he may seem too over power when facing Minor zed, but that is his job.

And when you facing extra fp and scrake you need team play.

Exactly this ^

The SCAR isn't overpowered because it's only very powerful against the small ZEDs. It takes multiple mags to kill a scrake or fleshie with a SCAR, so it's not too powerful.

 

[SMIFF]

Exactly this ^

The SCAR isn't overpowered because it's only very powerful against the small ZEDs. It takes multiple mags to kill a scrake or fleshie with a SCAR, so it's not too powerful.

Getting off topic but it's 1 mag and a bit for a level 3 commando, hard solo FP
with SCAR

Which is rediculous, Commando should be almost completely useless against Fleshpounds and Scrakes, yet he can take a massive chunk of health from FP, and Best Scrakes easily, even on 6 player games.

This is overpowered.

 

[C_Gibby]

Getting off topic but it's 1 mag and a bit for a level 3 commando, hard solo FP
with SCAR

There's your problem.

Solo mode doesn't count for anything when it comes to balancing a perk. Hell, I can kill a Fleshie with the firebug on solo mode.

I suppose firebug is overpowered now, isn't it?

 

[9_6]

If each shot is a headshot, you can kill a scrake with half a SCAR mag without enraging it.
6 players, hard.

 

[SMIFF]

Someone didn't read.

 

[C_Gibby]

Someone didn't read.

You said it can best scrakes easily on a 6 man game as well.

That's not killing it with half a mag now, is it? It often takes more than one, plus contribution from other teammates - which is more than likely to occur.

 

[SMIFF]

You said it can best scrakes easily on a 6 man game as well.

That's not killing it with half a mag now, is it? It often takes more than one, plus contribution from other teammates - which is more than likely to occur.

When did I say half a mag?

And it often takes more than 1 mag, yes, but only just.
And that is certainly overpowered, the scrake is meant to be a fearsome beast, yet he can be humiliated EASILY by a perk that isn't even supposed to take on the big guys.

SCAR is overpowered.

When M14 and Crossbow are finally nerfed, and if SCAR somehow manages to sneak by un-nerfed, then I can fully guarantee that SCAR Commandos will be the new M14 Spammers.

EDIT: Massive derail, we should get back on topic, if you want to further discuss why you think the SCAR isn't overpowered, then start a new thread or something

 

[brphoenix]

EDIT: Massive derail, we should get back on topic, if you want to further discuss why you think the SCAR isn't overpowered, then start a new thread or something

I was going to say that =D

 

[C_Gibby]

When did I say half a mag?

I was referring to 9_6's post. ._.' whoopsie.

SCAR is overpowered.

I wouldn't go as far to say it's overpowered, but it certainly is rather beastly. It could have the ammo reduced to 10 mags instead of 15 total.

and yeah, back to the topic, plox.

 

[9_6]

The SCAR is exactly what the revolvers are supposed to be for the gunslinger.
You can take on scrakes and pounds with it but not as well as a sharpshooter.
Which I keep hearing is somehow supposed to be unique to the gunslinger.

If "emptying guns and switching them to avoid the long reload" is supposed to be the gunslinger thing then good night gunslinger.
Not constantly reloading is a good way to get killed, besides dual 9mm has 30 freaking shots.
How are you supposed to "empty that" as if it's nothing without getting carpal tunnel syndrome?

I did suggest autofire for akimbo pistols like half a year ago but I see instead of coming up with unique traits, you prefer wasting time discussing about how the gunslinger is so uniquely versatile while he clearly is not.
(Also you can do that very thing with a SCAR and an AK, empty one and switch to the next one so yeah...)

In fact the only perk in the whole game that is NOT versatile would be the firebug as his single perk weapon doesn't leave all too many options for weapon combinations while the perk bonuses do nothing for non-flamer, non-grenade weapons.

I think there is room for the gunslinger in the game though.
I'd even say the gunslinger is the ONLY perk that could legitimately fit into the game.
Do you know why?
No, not because we need more versatile perks but simply because pistols are the only weapons that don't have a logical perk dedicated to them (first one to say they're for the sharpshooter wins a free kick in the teeth).

That is all and that is the whole idea behind the gunslinger.
Now it only needs some more creativity to give the idea of a "gunslinger" some substance beyond "generic bonus + does more damage during ZED-time".

Seriously, "more damage during ZED-time" has to be the most underwhelming bonus suggestion ever.
Just look at what commandos get, enemy health bars, being able to see invisible enemies, ZED-time extensions... take note how none of those bonuses just mindlessly cranks the damage variable up.
We need more of those. At least 2.

 

[zfroggyman]

Maybe instead of gunslinger(not trying to say this isn't a beautiful idea) it should be named Small Arms Specialist? I have no problem with the name Gunslinger I just like the more... modern sound of Small Arms Specialist.

Eh, that doesn't fit the naming styles of other perks "berserker, isntead of "Mele specialist or something" or firebug instead of "Combustion Specialist"

 

[Undedd Jester]

I don't know about everyone else, but for me this thread has become too long and cumbersome to read through.

I don't read anyone's posts in it anymore, so to actually give this thread some direction again I suggest we either write a final decision and perhaps link/quote our most important post to reflect our stance on the perk, to truly see if people want it adding.

 

[SMIFF]

Eh, that doesn't fit the naming styles of other perks "berserker, isntead of "Mele specialist or something" or firebug instead of "Combustion Specialist"

Or shotgun guy instead of support specialist...

 

[Undedd Jester]

Opinion: Yes to the Gunslinger/Dualist, as long as the perks abilities are well thought out.

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?p=612488#post612488

Key Points: -

- I prefer the name "Dualist" by far. Gunslinger sounds out of place and is technically incorrect.
- Stats as follows:
Level: 6
Pistol Damage: +50%
Ammo: +30%
Reload speed: +50%
damage Dual Wielding: +10%
damage Hip Fire: +15%
Run Speed: +15%
Resistance to Stun: +75%
Resistance to Sirens scream: +50%
- Alterations as needed as long as they support a run and gun style of play.