Gunslinger Perk - Yes or No?

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Gunslinger Perk - Yes or No?


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brphoenix

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 15, 2009
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brphoenix.deviantart.com
I'm sure the "pistol masteries" were the bonuses that you get for using pistols, such as increase damage, reload speed and reduced recoil.

You know what? I have no clue what's going on here.

To be honest, neither do I. The last pages have been a mess, so I'm reposting the first post :D

Gunslinger Perk

Weapons: Handguns, both single and akimbo.

  • T1 weapon: 9mm
  • T2 weapon: Handcannon
  • T3 weapon: Powerful-hitter Revolver
Bonuses:

  • "Standard" bonuses (higher damage, faster reload, less recoil...);
  • +X% ammo capacity;
  • +X% Higher damage during ZEDtime.
Niche:

  • Versatility-based perk. Weapons that can do anything, from dealing low damage to a high number of zeds, to dealing a lot of damage to a single zed.Keep in mind that a Gunslinger will be outshined by perks intended to fit a role (For example, he can do some decent crowd-control, but a Firebug will outshine him)
Leveling:

  • Level by dealing Handgun damage, and/or;
  • Killing Zeds during ZED-time with handguns.
Weapon Stats:

Tier 3 - S&W .500
Capacity: 5 rounds, 50 spare rounds
Reload: 1.5 second to start reload animation, .5 second per bullet (reloading one bullet takes 2 seconds, full reload takes 4 seconds)
Recoil: 60
 
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CandleJack

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 2, 2009
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To be honest, neither do I. The last pages have been a mess, so I'm reposting the first post :D

*epicly awesome idea*

Good to see that again, it would be good to have, if only for a perk that fitted my playstyle.

A revolver would be good, and [JOKE] the triple-barrelled revolver i suggested a couple pages back would be good as well[/JOKE]

As well as this, being able to mix and match dual weapons would be pretty sweet. Like a 9mm and a HC. It would be keeping with the versatility of the perk.
 

human_gs

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 14, 2010
109
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Moving on, I believe that it would be fairly more balanced if the Gunslinger had more chances to take down a FP than a Commando on FP, while lacking his quick anti-mob capabilities. No one is quicker in taking clots/crawlers down than a Commando (and perhaps a firebug), so the Gunslinger should fall behind.
Since he has himself limited ammo, and his weapons are both damage-wise and firerate-wise limited, he isn't near as good at taking small zeds down than a commando. Unless he uses his handcannons. That would be like a Commando using AK on a handful of clots, which is of course unnecessary and a waste of ammo.

Ok if the perk was somewhat similar to commando but better against big zeds and worse against small ones it would be balanced, the question is how to accomplish that.
You're proposing limited ammo/fire-rate/damage, but I don't think that is possible.
1) Damage wise? If its damage was a limitation against small ZEDs how is it supposed to take out the small ones? A scrake has the life of easily 15 clots how would it be limited damage-wise to take out the clots or weaker zeds? You could add a weakness against them (or extra dmg on fp/scrake) for pistols, but I don't think it would make any sense since sharp weapons don't have that. Actually, that would be an awesome idea for nerfing sharp without turning it into ****: He fires more penetrating bullets that ignore the big guys resistance but don't provoke that much damage on small ones as hollow point rounds, but that's another thread there.

2)Limited ammo/fire-rate? I understood from your explanation that sharp would be butchered and only stay good against big ones. I honestly don't think it would go to the whole gunslinger aspect to run on low ammo, specially if there was already another perk specifically and only against few powerful enemies. Plus I don't think it's fair for the HC: It has low ammo just because it's intended as a secondary weapon, and should be changed if it became a primary one. About the fire-rate the handcannon shoots fast enough to sweep through crowds (it excels against crawlers), but if you don't like it gunslinger would still master the 9mm, arguably the best tool for quickly decaping small ZEDs. Shooting them with the revolver would of course be overkill but pistols are light so you can carry all the perks weapons, I don't see how ammo could become an issue without reducing each weapons' capacity to a crippling amount.
So other than with the damage resistance I don't see how the perk could be bad against small zeds and decent against big ones: 2 of 3 pistols have an ideal damage per round and fire-rate to sweep small/medium mobs without being overkill or wasting too much ammo. Plus precision is not an issue with KFs pistol, at least with the already existing ones.
Again, with that versatility I don't know how you can make it bad against crowd but better than commando against big ones (keep in mind TW has yet to come up with a perk straight bad against crowds, the closest ones being arguably sharp and support, but they still rock due to EBR spam and shotgun penetration).
 
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brphoenix

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 15, 2009
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brphoenix.deviantart.com
Ok if the perk was somewhat similar to commando but better against big zeds and worse against small ones it would be balanced, the question is how to accomplish that.
You're proposing limited ammo/fire-rate/damage, but I don't think that is possible.
1) Damage wise? If its damage was a limitation against small ZEDs how is it supposed to take out the small ones? A scrake has the life of easily 15 clots how would it be limited damage-wise to take out the clots or weaker zeds? You could add a weakness against them (or extra dmg on fp/scrake) for pistols, but I don't think it would make any sense since sharp weapons don't have that. Actually, that would be an awesome idea for nerfing sharp without turning it into ****: He fires more penetrating bullets that ignore the big guys resistance but don't provoke that much damage on small ones as hollow point rounds, but that's another thread there.

2)Limited ammo/fire-rate? I understood from your explanation that sharp would be butchered and only stay good against big ones. I honestly don't think it would go to the whole gunslinger aspect to run on low ammo, specially if there was already another perk specifically and only against few powerful enemies. Plus I don't think it's fair for the HC: It has low ammo just because it's intended as a secondary weapon, and should be changed if it became a primary one. About the fire-rate the handcannon shoots fast enough to sweep through crowds (it excels against crawlers), but if you don't like it gunslinger would still master the 9mm, arguably the best tool for quickly decaping small ZEDs. Shooting them with the revolver would of course be overkill but pistols are light so you can carry all the perks weapons, I don't see how ammo could become an issue without reducing each weapons' capacity to a crippling amount.
So other than with the damage resistance I don't see how the perk could be bad against small zeds and decent against big ones: 2 of 3 pistols have an ideal damage per round and fire-rate to sweep small/medium mobs without being overkill or wasting too much ammo. Plus precision is not an issue with KFs pistol, at least with the already existing ones.
Again, with that versatility I don't know how you can make it bad against crowd but better than commando against big ones (keep in mind TW has yet to come up with a perk straight bad against crowds, the closest ones being arguably sharp and support, but they still rock due to EBR spam and shotgun penetration).

You make good points; it's good to see arguments. Thanks. (yes, I've already thanked before for posting actual arguments. The thing is, if you reward someone for doing something, then they're bound to do it again)

1) The damage part.

I'll explain in detail:

The 9mm deals 25-35 damage (approx.). The Bullpup deals 16-26. The bullpup fires much faster than the 9mm, which is semi-auto and has its fire rate capped at 5 bullets per second. The bullpup fires twice as fast, has a bigger mag, and more spare ammo.
All in all, the 9mm deals tops 125-175 per second, requires an insanely fast finger and nearly empties its mag, while the bullpup deals 160-360 with 1/4 of its mag, and is consistent (firerate-wise). Oh, the BP reloads faster too.

I wouldn't mind a small reduction in 9mm damage, to 22-32. Makes a lot of difference.

The Handcannon deals 95-115 damage, but can't fire more than 4 rounds per second, has a 8-round mag, high recoil, slow reload times, and a pathetically small ammo stash with only 10 extra mags. The AK, on the other hand, has lower recoil, fires roughly as fast as the BP, but deals 35-45.
The handcannon is, IMO, close to overkill on small specs. It shouldn't be your weapon of choice against them. Though if you do want to use them, save your ammo, kinda like with the M32, but without the smoke and suicide-capabilities.
Keep in mind that two HC shots won't kill a clot on suicidal, and a third will be complete overkill (he'll have ~18 hp left), so it'll be a waste. An AK user doesn't need to worry about such ammo waste, because it deals damage with several bullets. One extra bullet won't make a difference.
That said, I wouldn't mind a small nerf on the HC too. 90-110 seems good.

This makes the HC worse at killing small specs, and the 9mm is severely weaker than the Bullpup at such task. Hence why I say it has more of a hard time against those zeds.

The second part... I'll have to post it later. I must get some sleep (it's 3AM as I post this D: )
 
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-[SiN]-bswearer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 3, 2008
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hoping there's still a possibility for the mk23 to be added in as a weapon for this perk, assuming the perk is added. i don't even care if it's a tier2 or tier3 weapon or whether or not another gun like a revolver is added, but i believe that JackCarver really deserves to have his weapon added to the game and preferably linked to this proposed perk. it's undoubtably the most polished custom weapon that's been created for the game and he deserves some recognition :)
 

C_Gibby

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 18, 2010
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As well as this, being able to mix and match dual weapons would be pretty sweet. Like a 9mm and a HC. It would be keeping with the versatility of the perk.

Mix & match would rock:IS2:, but how about for a little more versatility by giving the ability to switch between single and dual?

For example, they can deal low damage to a large group of ZEDs with dual 9mm but when they want to make a headshot kill on a ZED that is far away, they can switch to one 9mm. :D
 

CandleJack

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 2, 2009
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Mix & match would rock:IS2:, but how about for a little more versatility by giving the ability to switch between single and dual?

For example, they can deal low damage to a large group of ZEDs with dual 9mm but when they want to make a headshot kill on a ZED that is far away, they can switch to one 9mm. :D

I thought by now we'd affirmed that as a part of the Gunslinger :IS2:
But in case we haven't, i say yes, switch between single and dual. Move the torch on the 9mm from the middle mouse default to F as default.

Then we can have scoping on the middle mouse by default.
We can then have the left gun on left click and the right one on right click.
 

human_gs

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 14, 2010
109
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The second part... I'll have to post it later. I must get some sleep (it's 3AM as I post this D: )

Please do post it later, I'm missing the part were it has any improvement over commando, unless the revolver is godly the perk will be crappy, at least according to your last post.
 

brphoenix

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 15, 2009
479
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brphoenix.deviantart.com
Relax, people, it's taken care of. No more risks (unless I don't show up somewhere...) of going to jail. It's just that I've been volunteered (yes, volunteered :))by my government to work at this year's elections, and the deadline to show up at a... ugh, I don't know the word... where you do your vital record stuff. Anyways, I had a deadline of until 08/08 to show up, and the letter that said that only arrived like 08/11... or something like that. The letter arrived after the deadline, that's my point.
But I've shown up, and they "forgave" me...
 
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CandleJack

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 2, 2009
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Relax, people, it's taken care of. No more risks (unless I don't show up somewhere...) of going to jail. It's just that I've been volunteered (yes, volunteered :))by my government to work at this year's elections, and the deadline to show up at a... ugh, I don't know the word... where you do your vital record stuff. Anyways, I had a deadline of until 08/08 to show up, and the letter that said that only arrived like 08/11... or something like that. The letter arrived after the deadline, that's my point.
But I've shown up, and they "forgave" me...

Three months is a bit long for mail to arrive, and it arrived in the future to boot :D

But it's good to know you're fine.
 

CandleJack

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 2, 2009
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I wrote the dates the other way around, like, the american way. I figured most people here are americans, so I'd be a good forumite and post it their way ^^

Don't worry about the americans, do it our way! :D

And again, good to know you're alright. So you can get back to posting win about this awesome idea.
 

MSB3000

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2008
48
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I wrote the dates the other way around, like, the american way. I figured most people here are americans, so I'd be a good forumite and post it their way ^^

Whenever I can I use the month's abbreviation, like Aug or Feb etc. I hate trying to figure out which system is being used.
 

Nin

Active member
Dec 29, 2009
474
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Brphoenix, did you try to make a Fleshpound, perhaps?

Just joking, mate, glad to see you're not stuck in jail. Even though you probably don't know me. :p

Say, last off-topic thing here: Brphoenix, do you happen to have a Steam User's Forum account too? I swear I chuckled when I saw your name in the Team Fortress 2 Steam Forums.

On-topic, finally: Do you think a mod or anyone that's important has looked or noticed this thread? Been a while since I checked this thread, considering last time I saw it everyone was saying "No f**king way!" to the idea.