Gunslinger Perk - Yes or No?

[Reise]

This has not been "developed."

It's been developed, but there isn't any more need for new people to come in here and pretend these 41 pages are just spam posts with unrelated material. Though admittedly most of these posts are responses to posts like yours.

The thread's been here long enough.

 

[anthracy]

It's been developed, but there isn't any more need for new people to come in here and pretend these 41 pages are just spam posts with unrelated material. Though admittedly most of these posts are responses to posts like yours.

The thread's been here long enough.

It's a perk that has been mostly cut and pasted from sharpshooter with an added weapon.

The whole reason the perk exists is because someone somewhere on the forums noticed that there were two types of handguns that they believed shouldn't be associated with sharpshooter. This perk has had its' moment, a lot of people feel that it shouldn't be implemented while most people view it as "anything new" and say yes please.

Give.It.A.Rest.

 

[brphoenix]

It's a perk that has been mostly cut and pasted from sharpshooter with an added weapon.

The whole reason the perk exists is because someone somewhere on the forums noticed that there were two types of handguns that they believed shouldn't be associated with sharpshooter. This perk has had its' moment, a lot of people feel that it shouldn't be implemented while most people view it as "anything new" and say yes please.

Give.It.A.Rest.

You forgot the people that want it to be implemented because it actually has depth and may allow for new strategic elements.

This perk's playstile is FAR from being the sharpshooter's. If you can't see past that, then I'm afraid there's no reason for me to expose my arguments. They'll just be ignored, since you glued this image in your forehead, and it may hurt (a lot) to remove it.

Try some boiling water, maybe it'll help

If it doesn't, then it's not much of a loss.

 

[Unit-05]

a lot of people feel that it shouldn't be implemented while most people view it as "anything new" and say yes please.

I don't know if you have noticed, and if I am wrong on this on this one please tell me, but I really hope that I am on this one; is that the only reason why the player base will remain strong in this game, is the fact that people will be getting free additions to their game without cost. meaning unless TWI does something, add something, or modifys it to change the gameplay in some way, the monotony of the gameplay will get to the players and more and more people will stop playing it. Mods don't seem to be as popular here as seen in half-life 2 other then custom maps, and even then mission maps are an uncommon sight. People love the concept of the game. but we want something new added to it, while keeping the same concept. if what you are suggesting, is to keep everything the same from now on without the backing of a massive modding community, this game will die.

And you can bet you're *** the authors of TWI knows this all too well. Which is why they even have this section in their forums to begin with. I don't know of any other game forums that has an ideas and suggestions section in their forums to this extent.

 

[anthracy]

I don't know if you have noticed, and if I am wrong on this on this one please tell me, but I really hope that I am on this one; is that the only reason why the player base will remain strong in this game, is the fact that people will be getting free additions to their game without cost. meaning unless TWI does something, add something, or modifys it to change the gameplay in some way, the monotony of the gameplay will get to the players and more and more people will stop playing it. Mods don't seem to be as popular here as seen in half-life 2 other then custom maps, and even then mission maps are an uncommon sight. People love the concept of the game. but we want something new added to it, while keeping the same concept. if what you are suggesting, is to keep everything the same from now on without the backing of a massive modding community, this game will die.

And you can bet you're *** the authors of TWI knows this all too well. Which is why they even have this section in their forums to begin with. I don't know of any other game forums that has an ideas and suggestions section in their forums to this extent.

I am sorry to say, but the only thing that will breathe new life into this game would be a combination of the following:

• Added weapons to already existing perks
• Additional Maps
• Another end game boss
• More types of specimens
• A new game mode or two
• Existing perk balance

Notice that a half-assed perk suggestion is not one of them

 

[Unit-05]

I am sorry to say, but the only thing that will breathe new life into this game would be a combination of the following:

• Added weapons to already existing perks
• Additional Maps
• Another end game boss
• More types of specimens
• A new game mode or two
• Existing perk balance

Notice that a half-assed perk suggestion is not one of them

Adding new maps will not make much of a difference, new game mode, more monsters, different boss, and new weapons would be a good plus though, and balancing is a must too. But the poll vote you see above does make a point, if 63.33% of the populace wants to have it, then it will appeal to the masses, something TWI needs, while at the same time, give us something we have not done befor.

As is, even if you dont like perks abilities bleeding into other roles, it has already has happend: the demo and firebug, and even though each one works almost the same in the end, I love it for the pure fact that I can take the role I like doing while using weapons that will work in different ways. People love variety. If I understand correctly, the gun slinger is ment to be the jack of all trades, master of none. Very good to have around, but the dedicated perks will still be needed.

another thing people seem to love to do is personalize themselves with perks, make it more enjoyable to them. Besides what large scale harm it will do to the game to add another perk in? And the powers that be, there is no way people could have went through this many pages without such a perk being thought over so thoroughly; Half-assed is not one of them, stop getting angry.

If a small group of people are going to be inconvenienced (or you for that matter) because a larger mass of people want it, then that is too bad.

I am sorry to say, but the only thing that will breathe new life into this game would be a combination of the following

I think brphoenix made a good point with the brazilian expression.

 

[Marls]

I reckon all these guys complaining, are sharpshooter whores. They dont like the idea of seperating there crossbow and pistols. They'd miss there 1 shot fleshy kill, and being able to handle the small fry with sidearms/pistols bonus'es at the same time. They dont want to let go of their overpowered perk.

 

[YoYoBatty]

I reckon all these guys complaining, are sharpshooter whores. They dont like the idea of seperating there crossbow and pistols. They'd miss there 1 shot fleshy kill, and being able to handle the small fry with sidearms/pistols bonus'es at the same time. They dont want to let go of their overpowered perk.

This ^ lol

 

[gusone]

A hand gun always has been and always will be a secondary weapon. How can a handgun stand up against any of the level 6 or even level 5 weapons (for that matter of fact). Forget all your suggestion of fancy handgun firearms and pretty pictures posted here and be realistic from a balance perspective for once. It was an enthusiatic idea that is now bordering on ridiculous. A handgun secondary weapon for when you run out of ammo period.

It's great to see community feedback but there's also flogging a dead horse. There's also digging a long dead horse corpse up from six feet under and dragging it through the streets until it disintergrates. This thread is the latter.

 

[SIMOX]

But there are people that like to be versatile. To be able to assist everyone. I am one of those people.

I can't do this with any perk besides the sharpshooter. If his versatility gets blown up, how am I supposed to do that? (No, commando can't do it. He's not versatile enough)

Oh. So u like to be the leader of the team huh? What about not being so "versatile" and using other supportive perks? Using your team to kill something u can't kill alone?

Commando is good enough. Ofc u need someone with xbow to take all the big guys. Or someone with AA12. There shouldn't be no versatile (unique) perks. Why? Because Team-work is for that.

So, the "solution" is to add a versatile perk. One that is INTENDED to do this. One that is also balanced, and teaches how to play KF correctly. As of now, there are several lvl6 sharpies that have no idea how to play. Why? Because they don't have to rely on others (and also because it's the only perk that levels easily on begginer).

Teaches how to play KF? Lol, you've got to be kidding me. How pistoler perk can theach how to play? This is just ridiculous. Being unique, running with pistols in both hands and killing everyone? Because he is versalite and can assist everyone? NO. Just perks which are not unique can teach u not just how to play KF but how to play in team, using team-work.

For me, it's nothing more that a sharp shooter movement in to other perk with different name. Since Sharpie won't be so overpowered anymore. So u decided to create another one, rambo style perk (sorry, but i don't see nothing than a rambo here) with a Zed time bonus!!

---Some question below---

What "Gunslinger" do with pistols in both hands?
a) Spamming bullets all over the place
b) Tries to aim (what is impossible)
c) Running around the place and waiting for the zed time (to use bonus!!)
d) Other (explain)

Wich one?

What "Gunslinger" do with pistol in one hand?
a) Aims for the head to easily kill speciments (oh wait pistol is not for aiming, probably shoots right to their nuts to slow them down)
b) Running around the place searching for the second handgun.
c) Still waiting for damn zed time to assist other guys.
d)Other (explain)

Wich one?

 

[YoYoBatty]

Alrite SIMOX and Gusone just leave now.

 

[Unit-05]

Oh. So u like to be the leader of the team huh? What about not being so "versatile" and using other supportive perks? Using your team to kill something u can't kill alone?

Commando is good enough. Ofc u need someone with xbow to take all the big guys. Or someone with AA12. There shouldn't be no versatile (unique) perks. Why? Because Team-work is for that.



Teaches how to play KF? Lol, you've got to be kidding me. How pistoler perk can theach how to play? This is just ridiculous. Being unique, running with pistols in both hands and killing everyone? Because he is versalite and can assist everyone? NO. Just perks which are not unique can teach u not just how to play KF but how to play in team, using team-work.

For me, it's nothing more that a sharp shooter movement in to other perk with different name. Since Sharpie won't be so overpowered anymore. So u decided to create another one, rambo style perk (sorry, but i don't see nothing than a rambo here) with a Zed time bonus!!

---Some question below---

What "Gunslinger" do with pistols in both hands?
a) Spamming bullets all over the place
b) Tries to aim (what is impossible)
c) Running around the place and waiting for the zed time (to use bonus!!)
d) Other (explain)

Wich one?

What "Gunslinger" do with pistol in one hand?
a) Aims for the head to easily kill speciments (oh wait pistol is not for aiming, probably shoots right to their nuts to slow them down)
b) Running around the place searching for the second handgun.
c) Still waiting for damn zed time to assist other guys.
d)Other (explain)

Wich one?

I DUNNO LOL 'WICH' ONE 'U' WOULD PICK? 'U' SHOULD 'THEACH' ME HOW TO PLAY KF BETTER BECAUSE OF YOUR AWESOME FACTS

The weapon choices that will be for the available gunslinger will make it able to suit the role of short, medium, and long ranges fairly good, but not to the extent of the other perks, Why is this good? it allows this perk to fill a role that needs assistance immediately in the heat of battle. he can assist the berserker by slamming them at close range with the dual hand cannons, he can assist the commando and support at medium range by taking a single 9mm or handcannon, or yes, assist the sharp shooter with the heavy hitting revolver, but guess what? just because he can help do these tasks, doesn't mean he can do them alone. But why it works is because he can switch between these roles in an instant and help fill the roles that need to be filled without being totally dedicated for that role. He is the jack of all trades, but master of none.

 

[CupofMud]

What "Gunslinger" do with pistols in both hands?
a) Spamming bullets all over the place
b) Tries to aim (what is impossible)
c) Running around the place and waiting for the zed time (to use bonus!!)

A) I think only new or terrible players would do that. And in the former's case, they would learn over time, as we all have, hot to play properly and efficiently.

B) In Killing Floor, getting a "feel" for where the center of your screen is a very valuable asset. Hell, I'd say it's almost essential that, by the time someone's playing in suicidal, you're able to consistently headshot specimens from the hip. Are there great players that can't/don't do that and get by? Yes, but it makes things a hell of a lot easier. Just as Sharpshooters have to learn how to consistently make headshots, or Support Specialists have to learn how line up their shots to get the best bang for their buck, or Demolitions have to learn how to operate without hindering their team with smoke, would Gunslinger players need to learn how to be effective while utilizing two handguns (aiming in particular).

C) I really don't see anyone doing that, ever, unless they are, again, a terrible player.

"Hey, you haven't even shot one thing yet! What gives?"
"I'm waiting for ZED time to proc."

I highly doubt we'd ever see that.

What "Gunslinger" do with pistol in one hand?
a) Aims for the head to easily kill speciments (oh wait pistol is not for aiming, probably shoots right to their nuts to slow them down)
b) Running around the place searching for the second handgun.
c) Still waiting for damn zed time to assist other guys.

A) Pistols aren't for aiming? Uh, not sure what to say about that one. Again, that sorta ties in to gusone's post, that pistols are always, always secondary weapons. I don't understand what makes you guys feel pistols have been pigeonholed into a secondary weapon role. Yes, everyone regardless of perk spawns with one, and sometimes they do boil down to just a secondary weapon. But they wouldn't be in the hands of this new perk. You guys realize that things would be changed (primarily by perk bonuses) that would make them comparable to those higher tier weapons?

And before it comes up, no, I don't mean we'd have the 9mm equivalent to the SCAR, or AA12, or whatever other nonsense. Everything would have its correct place.

B) I also don't really see this happening unless they're a (everyone's probably getting tired of these two words ) terrible player. Things would probably stay the same as they are now: everyone would keep an eye out for any green-glowing weapons while they go about their business keeping the specimen population in check.

C) See the above "C)".

 

[brphoenix]

A hand gun always has been and always will be a secondary weapon. How can a handgun stand up against any of the level 6 or even level 5 weapons (for that matter of fact).

You do realize that this only proves my point.

How can a handgun compete against any of the high-tier weaponry?

The answer: It can't. You heard me.

BTW, there is no "level 6 or 5" weapons in KF - except when you talk about the sharpshooter... which is kinda what we want removed.

Forget all your suggestion of fancy handgun firearms and pretty pictures posted here and be realistic from a balance perspective for once.

The only suggestion of "fancy handgun" that was made "official" is the Revolver. NONE of the other handguns suggested were taken into account. Why? Because:

1) We don't want to overload TWI with new modeling tasks;

2) Three weapons for a perk is the common ground, and it's what'll happen with the GS;

3) 9mm and Handcannon are balanced as it is.

If you missed these points, then you missed the whole point of the suggestion.

It was an enthusiatic idea that is now bordering on ridiculous. A handgun secondary weapon for when you run out of ammo period.

Yes, a secondary is for when your primary runs out of ammo.

But do tell me, what makes a handgun a secondary weapon?

Is it the lack of cartridges in its mag, resulting in smaller mags than your primary?

Or the fact that maybe it doesn't pack the same punch as your primary?

If it is one of those, then I'm afraid you're wrong.

A handgun CAN deal more damage than your "primary". Just because a handgun is tiny, and an assault rifle is big, doesn't make the former your secondary and the latter your primary. And this is what's so difficult to understand.

It's great to see community feedback but there's also flogging a dead horse. There's also digging a long dead horse corpse up from six feet under and dragging it through the streets until it disintergrates. This thread is the latter.

...what?

Oh. So u like to be the leader of the team huh? What about not being so "versatile" and using other supportive perks? Using your team to kill something u can't kill alone?

What if my whole team is made of one of each perk, and I find myself constantly around someone different? This has happened to me, and it isn't pretty when I'm firebug and he's commando. Or when I'm dedicated (read: playing as the perk was meant to) sharpshooter and the guy next to me is demolitions.

No, this isn't as rare as you make it out to be. It happens very often. Well, with me at least. I play on pubs, because most of my friends won't leave CoD or TF2. Nothing wrong with that, but it happens.

Also, the gunslinger can't kill ANYTHING alone (at least, not as effectively as someone else). By the time he takes down a clot, a commando will have taken down the whole group (exagerated). A sharpshooter takes down a scrake in less than one second (sees scrake, aims, shoot, and boom goes the dynamite). A gunslinger will need someone helping him and some revolver rounds. Much more than a second.

But then you ask me: "why will anyone play as gunslinger then?"
And I say: "because you'll be able to help ANYONE, doesn't matter what is his perk. You can help him".

Teaches how to play KF? Lol, you've got to be kidding me. How pistoler perk can theach how to play? This is just ridiculous. Being unique, running with pistols in both hands and killing everyone? Because he is versalite and can assist everyone? NO. Just perks which are not unique can teach u not just how to play KF but how to play in team, using team-work.

You said it yourself. "perks which are not unique can teach u not just how to play KF but how to play in team, using team-work". Now, isn't my perk BASED in teamwork? The only difficulty level where it'd be able to solo is on begginer, and even a lvl3 firebug does begginer alone.

KF is based on teamwork. It has some extra depth, yes, like knowing some zeds have explosive resistance, others can smash your team in a matter of seconds... but it the end, it all comes down to teamwork. Since this perk is one that can't handle situations on its own, then its user NEEDS teamwork to survive. Thus, teaching proper teamwork to its user.

For me, it's nothing more that a sharp shooter movement in to other perk with different name. Since Sharpie won't be so overpowered anymore. So u decided to create another one, rambo style perk (sorry, but i don't see nothing than a rambo here) with a Zed time bonus!!

Haven't I /facepalm'd you already for saying something as idiotic as this?

People need to learn that versatile =/= rambo. Not even a sharpshooter can rambo on 6-man suicidal, so what makes you think that a perk that has FEWER bonuses and WORSE weaponry than the MOST OVERPOWERED perk in KF could rambo better?

What "Gunslinger" do with pistols in both hands?
a) Spamming bullets all over the place
b) Tries to aim (what is impossible)
c) Running around the place and waiting for the zed time (to use bonus!!)
d) Other (explain)

Wich one?

What "Gunslinger" do with pistol in one hand?
a) Aims for the head to easily kill speciments (oh wait pistol is not for aiming, probably shoots right to their nuts to slow them down)
b) Running around the place searching for the second handgun.
c) Still waiting for damn zed time to assist other guys.
d)Other (explain)

Wich one?

Weeee! Question time!

Let's see...

First question... D)

It depends on his current dual weapon and what is in front of him.

For 9mm:

Weak zeds (clot, stalker, crawler: Fire away! Shoot everyone in sight. That's what this weapon is for.
Medium zeds (husk, bloat, gorefast): If there is only a few, shoot them down. Else, switch to Dual handcannons.
Strong zeds (Scrake, FP): WTF you doin' with dual 9mm against a FP!? Hurry and switch to your revolver!

For Handcannons:

Weak zeds: Unless you're low on hp, or you have a friend low on hp, or there's a FP close and you have to clear the low specs quickly, switch to 9mm.
Medium zeds: Go for single target spamming. These zeds can take some punishment before going down, and you can only deal this punishment quick with this weapon.
Strong zeds: If he's weakened and alone, then you can try emptying your mags on it. Else, switch to revolver.

Second question...

You know, to save some time, I'll answer A), but specifically remove that idiotic sentece between... parentheses? Is that how you say it? Anyways.

Why? Everyone with only one weapon aims for the head. It's easy, it's recommended.
Handguns not being for the sharpshooter and not meant for aiming at someone's head (IRL) does not mean you won't do it to kill zeds.

EDIT: Holy ****, this post is long.

 

[SIMOX]

People need to learn that versatile =/= rambo. Not even a sharpshooter can rambo on 6-man suicidal, so what makes you think that a perk that has FEWER bonuses and WORSE weaponry than the MOST OVERPOWERED perk in KF could rambo better?

Dunno, it's just looks like . Handguns in both hands just looks wierd, i mean not so tactical and serious.

You know, to save some time, I'll answer A), but specifically remove that idiotic sentece between... parentheses? Is that how you say it? Anyways.

That was a joke . Sorry if u didn't get it.

Why? Everyone with only one weapon aims for the head. It's easy, it's recommended.
Handguns not being for the sharpshooter and not meant for aiming at someone's head (IRL) does not mean you won't do it to kill zeds.

Cuz u said, handgun is not meant for aiming. But it's obvious that if u have pistol in one hand u will probably aim for the head.

A handgun is NOT meant for aiming. We have already established that in, say, ONE HUNDRED POSTS.

Remember this one?
_____________________________________________

Anyway, all things considered I'll leave this how it is. I see u guys doing good job and defending this perk idea pretty well, so I'll stand aside and wait what future will bring for us.

Now im not anymore on "no" side, but neither on "yes". I'll be neutral for now. Since i have to finish my map and do some other stuff.

At this point, there's really no need to fight anymore. Everything what is needed is allready have been said, TWI will be the judge.


EDIT: Oh and if u are so kind, think about changing perk name, cuz that one is ain't good.
I suggest: Triggerman, Gunman or Hit man after all.
EDIT2: Oh and sorry if i was an *** at #805 post. Really didn't want to offend anyone. Same on #811 post. I'm very sorry.

 

[Reise]

The "primary vs. secondary" and "not tactical" arguments are moot, we have people running around with machetes hacking zed heads off.

Supporters at this point are being too zealous, and we have the same bad eggs effectively poking their heads in and saying "NO LOL" as soon as things quiet down.

Just accept that some people are gonna vote no, we've had enough explanation on the workings of the perk. No matter what you say it's not going to be enough for them.

 

[Deadbolt]

But then you ask me: "why will anyone play as gunslinger then?"
And I say: "because you'll be able to help ANYONE, doesn't matter what is his perk. You can help him".

so ur pretty much saying that this is a *force multiplier* as many said about firebug in that whole big thread, except without the view blocking?

 

[brphoenix]

so ur pretty much saying that this is a *force multiplier* as many said about firebug in that whole big thread, except without the view blocking?

...what?

 

[slavek]

Think he meant that this perk is like firebug, it can help just about anyone but without the FB's pesky flames blocking view?

 

[Unit-05]

a team force multiplier for the gunslinger is correct pretty much, but the firebug is not ment for that, the firebug is a crowd control perk pretty much, for example:

If a fleshpound comes down the narrow hallway and starts attacking players, of course, everyone will be shooting at it, but while everyone is concentrated on the fleshpound, the rest of the hoard will be advancing. Too often teams die because even though they managed to kill the fleshpound, they took their attention off the crowd long too much to then be able to push them back.

So when the team is fighting the fleshpound, the firebug holds off the crowd for a temporary amount of time by emptying the entire tank down the hallway untill his team can get back on track once the fleshpounds dead. although thats not their only use, its one of the examples of what they do.

Wierd as it may seem, but consider the firebug to be of sorts a 'machinegunner'