Gunslinger Perk - Yes or No?
- Thread starter brphoenix
- Start date
Ok, stop with the sarcasm. That's enough. This thread exists for constructive criticism. You don't like the idea, and don't feel like saying why, then DON'T POST. Seriously.
Yeah SS already got 3 other weapons so its not like he would miss the handcannon and pistols.
Altho imo he can keep the headshot damage bonus for pistol (and hc?), just remove any additional bonuses from using them.
Automatic dual glocks would be awesome xD
The only one of those that can be turned into an niche is the siren resistance, and even that's something that any class can do.
You have to specify what its niche is. Sharpshooters can use long range weapons with pinpoint accuracy; commandos have high fire rates; support specialists can carry a lot of weight.
What is the gunslinger's niche? I read all of those on the front page, they're not niches, they're just semi-distinguishing perks. The siren's too weak to need an entire perk attribute to combat it (even on suicidal, one shotgun blast usually does the trick).
Mhm, I suggested giving him a chance of causing a critical hit that makes the specimen bleed and lose health over time. Naturally the chance would increase each level. Wouldnt matter wether its a body- or headshot.
Didnt seem like ppl liked the idea too much tho, because didnt notice anyone commenting it. Maybe it reminds firebug too much?
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well the gunslinger's niche could be quick in running in and out of gunfights kind of like the berserker except it can run into a fight like lets say a bunch of gore that is chasing one person and save them or that would be copying berserker to much theres not much anything else the gunslinger can do except consume time for playing the perk itself
A new perk requires a new type of gun. You can't make a perk with an existing gun(s) because it'll overlap on the niche of another class.
The one thing I can see happening is the addition of a revolver(s) to the game, and then it may be possible for a new "gunslinger" perk to be added that gives you faster movement speed, but makes you more fragile.
The one thing I can see happening is the addition of a revolver(s) to the game, and then it may be possible for a new "gunslinger" perk to be added that gives you faster movement speed, but makes you more fragile.
How so? As far as I know there isn't a perk solely based on handguns. As I've said plenty of times, it doesn't fit the Sharpshooter image. In short, they'd be perkless weapons if not for the not-so-justifiable addition to Sharpshooter perk. Plus, removing them from sharpshooters is a step towards balancing that perk.
You ask about this perk's "niche". Commandos "have high fire-rate", which is to be expected from a perk using automatic weapons.
Sharpshooter's niche is using long-range weapons "with pinpoint accuracy". Isn't that why it's called "long-range weapon" in the first place?
Why can't the Gunslinger perk's niche be using akimbo pistols? What's the problem with that?
By the way, you say the siren's weak. Well, leave one alive on suicidal, and let her scream once or twice. If you're still alive, your screen will be all shaky, and blinking red. They're small, and mix well among clots because they're the same size. Plus, you'll be far too worried with that enraged FP rushing towards you to even SEE her.
I posit this question to you:
What's the difference between Firebug and Demolitions in their "niche"?
I bet your pardon.
This "niche", how did you define it? because:
-Sharpshooter does not have "aim-bot" ability aka pinpoint accuracy. He can miss a long shot just as much as anyone. The perk could only be as good as the player. And certainly, sharpshooter is not the only one who use "long range weapon", since most the time, medic picks xbow. He's only good at using long range weapon in the same way support good at shotgun or firebug good at flame thrower.
-Commandos does not have high fire rate. The commando's perk bonus does not include "increase fire rate by xx%", just increase reload rate which sharpshooter have.
And finally, if you said sharpshooter is good at long range weapon, bingo, one more reason to take handguns from sharp shooter hand and give them to... to... Mr. Gunslinger.
Firebugs niche is that he can set fire to cloaked units and allow other players to spot them, a must against a patty next to a commando, while a demoman can't track targets he can clear the big targets which the Firebug can't.
It definitely comes in handy, but I wouldn't say that's Firebug's niche.
On topic, like others are saying, to make room for a new perk other perks must be made more specific.
Sharpshooter: I believe Sharpshooter should be reworked so that the perk is as useless in close quarters combat as the Support Specialist is at long range. Other than taking away it's bonuses with pistols, their weapons would have to be reworked.
It might vary from person to person, but as I understand it, the scope magnification of the crossbow makes target acquisition more challenging/difficult when dealing with specimens in close quarters. I propose that a scope be added to at least the M14 (this is not taking into account the issues of M14's being "overpowered" or the fire rate of the crossbow. I don't give a damn about fire rate, this is a comparison of target acquisition with a scope and without a scope). Perhaps a further increase in magnification to make it more difficult in close range combat?
Yes, this would mean Sharpshooter would effectively become a "Sniper". From far away it would pick out high value specimens in the crowd and take them out before they reach you and your teammates. I'm sure Sharpshooter was never cornered into this role before (instead given bonuses for aiming accurately/correctly at heads) because being useless in close quarters combat doesn't suit this game. But if more room is to be made for other perks..
Yeah, something simpler would be to just remove Sharpshooter's pistol bonus and give that to the 'Slinger perk. But I'm thinking more in the long run.
Oh, I also approve of taking away Support Specialist's increased grenade capacity. I know their whole thing is "Dude, I'm strong and can carry a bunch!" but I think that can be rearranged somehow. If they can carry more, why not carry green, glowing, probably radioactive ammo boxes? At least something that can benefit the team. That's a whole other topic entirely, though.
The idea is to use what we have already, to lessen whatever load it would incur to implement. All Gunslinger would need is its Tier 3.
Adding more pistols than that would just be a headache.
Firebug has light, penetrating area-effect, constant streams of damage that continues over time with very little damage to himself. Good at close range, poor in open areas, inexpensive, and excels in corridors (You'll hit every unit in the area as the stream penetrates).
Demo man does instant heavy, area-effect damage with high reload times and a big possibility of hurting yourself. Suicide at close range, poor in corridors (You'll only hit units in front and are likely to hurt yourself), good in open areas, and very expensive.
Very different, though Demoman is generally more powerful because he has more weapon choices at the moment. Plus, all of those classes have unique weaponry.
Meanwhile, Gunslinger would basically steal away 2 Sharpshooter weapons and add a third one. While I'm in favor of a Sharpshooter nerf, taking a classes core weapons to create another class that's not really needed is a bad idea.
Seriously, though, what is it's niche? The zed-time thing would be gimmicky at best and annoying to teammates at worst. (Don't pretend that zerkers/Commandos chaining 5 Zed-Times together when you're just trying to run somewhere or reload hasn't been annoying!).
There's no way it could do area-effect better than Demo/Firebug/Support, so the role would need to be something else. Sweeping would be it's only viable role (Seeing as how it steals the Sharpshooter's sweeping 9mm and Handcannons) and it'd still struggle to meet the SCAR Commando or M14 Sharpshooter at that.
So the only really open option left is to make it a single-target High-DPS. The Handcannons kinda do that, but they really need the Sharpshooter's headshot bonuses to shine, so you'd be stuck adding a high-damage low-rate-of-fire weapon: The revolver.
Thus, for all intents and purposes, you have a Sharpshooter class with no headshot bonuses and a Revolver replacing the M14/Crossbow. I'm sorry, but it's a bad idea. Cool concept, but it just doesn't fit. You can try to argue it all you want, but that's what it really comes down to.
"Core" weapons? The handguns have close to NO USE at all compared to the M14 EBR. And remember: neither the 9mm nor akimbo handcannons weren't initially among Sharpie's weapons.
Guns' niche would be his versatility.
Don't tell me that's Commando's, because he does not have proficiency with long-range-y weapons (SCAR doesn't deal enough damage for that, and he's stuck with default weapon damage for all other stuff).
Gunslingers would be able to rip apart lower Zeds with his 9mm, deal medium-range, medium-level damage with handcannons, and deal high damage at longer range with his revolver.
No other perk can do that (except the Sharpshooter, that needs to have his short-range proficiency removed by nerfing the M14 EBR, but that's another story).
It is not a Sharpshooter.
So far the only explanation I've seen for people saying that is because handcannons and 9mms are Sharpshooter's weapons.
But they DO NOT FIT the general Sharpshooter's image. I'll even quote Wikipedia here:
And seeing as handguns aren't as accurate, in real life, as sniper rifles, they aren't true sharpshooter's weapons. So saying a Gunslinger is a Sharpshooter without headshot bonuses is a FAILED argument.
Oh, if the nerf TWI is planning for Sharpies is removing M14's laser sight and adding a scope to it, the weapon would be rendered close to useless in short-range. The revolver would still be useful in short-range.
Aye, 9mm and handcannon arent really sharpshooter weapons so you could aswell give them to a new perk. Well actually, I think SS could keep his bonus to the 9mm since its a weapon everyone spawns with but he wouldnt get any discounts or bonuses for the handcannons. Still, the gunslinger could also get bonuses for using the 9mm, specifically dual wields.
So basically, SS would have rifle, crossbow and m14, where gunslinger could have handcannons, glock and revolver. Both would have their own bonuses for the pistol.