Gunslinger Perk - Yes or No?

[brphoenix]

Also another problem is with weight, if the 9mm's and the handcannons come to 8 total dual welded, that leaves the rev's 4 weight (I'm guessing here) still able to be used which then opens up a whole other issue.
Why should this perk be allowed to carry 3 tiers of weaponry when the rest are normally stuck with two? (With the exception of the demoman which can carry pipebombs as well as both its nade launchers).

As yourself said, "you're carrying handguns, not shotguns". That pretty much explains why you can carry all three weapon tiers - I don't think dual 9mm weights 4 blocks, when you think that the M14 EBR weights 5.

Oh, you have 6 blocks free with dual 9mm and dual handcannon.

 

[Madhate969]

current Tier 1, 9mm, Tier 2 handcannon and LAR, Tier 3 EBR Tier 4 Crossbow.

Why should this perk be allowed to carry 3 tiers of weaponry when the rest are normally stuck with two? (With the exception of the demoman which can carry pipebombs as well as both its nade launchers).

Well as a SS I carry a 9mm, HC, Xbow, so taking the pistols away from the SS would bring the SS back to carrying 2 tiers worth of class weapons.
Also the weight of the new tier 3 hand gun can be bumped to make sure it cannot be carried with the HC and 9mm, but with the ammo amount, I don't really see a problem with having 3 sets of weapon like everyone else.

 

[brphoenix]

Well as a SS I carry a 9mm, HC, Xbow, so taking the pistols away from the SS would bring the SS back to carrying 2 tiers worth of class weapons.
Also the weight of the new tier 3 hand gun can be bumped to make sure it cannot be carried with the HC and 9mm, but with the ammo amount, I don't really see a problem with having 3 sets of weapon like everyone else.

I don't see what would be the matter in carrying all three tiers. I mean, Demomans can. They can carry M79, M32 and pipebombs at the same time. And they're grenade launchers. Why would gunslinger be unable to do so, when his weapons are significantly both small and lighter?

 

[Herborist]

I think it'd be cool, but they'd have to implement 3 new weapons. What's the point of stealing weapons from sharpshooter?

 

[Nitronumber9]

I don't see what would be the matter in carrying all three tiers. I mean, Demomans can. They can carry M79, M32 and pipebombs at the same time. And they're grenade launchers. Why would gunslinger be unable to do so, when his weapons are significantly both small and lighter?

The thing is related primarily to ammo. Even stock the handguns have a lot of ammo and will end up like the often spammed M14. (20 shots * 14 clips = 280 shots)
Looking at it, the 9mm has 225 rounds (15 rounds a clip * 15 clips) The hand cannon has 8 rounds a clip and 12 clips if memory serves me well for a total of 96 rounds, If just for test purposes we use the rev and give it 10 clips for a total of 60 rounds. We have a total of 381 rounds stock (without perk benefits)
Thats 21 more than the SS combo of M14 EBR and LAR. If the nerf of the M14 EBR reduces its ammo to 7 clips that gives the SS combo about 220 rounds, that still leaves the gunslinger perk with 161 rounds more than the SS and thats not including the following perk bonus mentioned in the original post

Can carry more ammo for handguns

Lets say we give the guns a 20% bonus to ammo. Unfortunately my math fails me at this point so I can't give an exact figure but its around 450 total ammo, now you see my point, ok its still less than the commando's AK/Scar combo which comes to around 550 rounds stock, but its miles to much for a crowd control/heavy target takedown perk.

A possible solution would be to only give the 20% ammo increase to the handcannon and rev's, which leaves the perk with a total of 412 ammo with all weapons (187 for just the hand cannon and rev), which still seems like a tiny bit to much a reason to carry all three tiers of guns.
TBH I suppose we can't do official tests of how that ammo will do unless the perk comes out. I will see how a pair of handcannons and 9mm's last ammo wise in a wave though and get back to you.

I think it'd be cool, but they'd have to implement 3 new weapons. What's the point of stealing weapons from sharpshooter?

Currently the SS has 5 weapons assigned to its perk making it have the most weapons for a perk. By taking away the two handguns it puts it on the same weaponry level as the rest of the perks, see one of my previous perks which explains this.

 

[brphoenix]

I think it'd be cool, but they'd have to implement 3 new weapons. What's the point of stealing weapons from sharpshooter?

It isn't really stealing, but putting them where they belong. I've said before, and I'll say again: Handguns aren't know for their accuracy. A Sharpshooter, however, is someone who picks his shots, and prefers accurate weapons. See now why it doesn't fit?

@Nitronumber9

In a Hard mid-wave (around wave 4~6), there isn't enough ammo on the Handcannon to last through it. However, there isn't the same problem with any other weapons I play with, except maybe for the flamethrower.

 

[gusone]

No12

 

[Herborist]

I'll rephrase what I said - I don't want a new perk to use existing weapons. It wouldn't be a new perk, it'd just be a reorg.

The gunslinger should use pistols that fire faster, but have worse accuracy.

 

[brphoenix]

I'll rephrase what I said - I don't want a new perk to use existing weapons. It wouldn't be a new perk, it'd just be a reorg.

The gunslinger should use pistols that fire faster, but have worse accuracy.

It'll be a step towards Sharpshooter balancing.

Weapons that shoot faster would make the Gunslinger look like a commando. Adding the powerful revolver would make Gunsliger an all-arounder, dealing with minor threats efficiently, as well as being able to handle the bigger stuff without getting himself killed.

 

[Herborist]

It'll be a step towards Sharpshooter balancing.

Weapons that shoot faster would make the Gunslinger look like a commando. Adding the powerful revolver would make Gunsliger an all-arounder, dealing with minor threats efficiently, as well as being able to handle the bigger stuff without getting himself killed.

Your post brings up a good question: what would the gunslinger's niche be? If he shoots fast, he's a commando knock off. If he's got great accuracy, he's a sharp shooter knock off. Do we really need another perk wedged in between those two?

 

[Eggy]

Hasn't it already been discussed that sharpie as a whole doesn't need balancing? The only thing that people seem to complain about is the autosniper. So it really would just be like shifting around existing content, rather than something actually new... which is pointless.

 

[Foxyfired]

Your post brings up a good question: what would the gunslinger's niche be? If he shoots fast, he's a commando knock off. If he's got great accuracy, he's a sharp shooter knock off. Do we really need another perk wedged in between those two?

yes, to have more diversity

 

[MasterCheff]

lol and we go back to that post about shambler not likeing diversity

 

[brphoenix]

Your post brings up a good question: what would the gunslinger's niche be? If he shoots fast, he's a commando knock off. If he's got great accuracy, he's a sharp shooter knock off. Do we really need another perk wedged in between those two?

Not being offensive or anything, but people tend to completely forget what was written one~two pages before.

Haven't you read that Gunslingers would have:

• Siren Resistance (maybe no screen flicker);
• Higher chance to trigger ZEDtime;
• Higher damage during ZEDtime.

That, and he'd be a versatile class.
Isn't it enough?

 

[MasterCheff]

he basically is neo from the matrix?

 

[brphoenix]

Because Neo is able to resist high-pitch screams, and uses a revolver, right?

 

[Nitronumber9]

Technically he can put up with Trinity, I'm sure I saw him with a revolver at some point to.

 

[MasterCheff]

lol it settled we make an exact copy of neo from the matrix and repackage it as gunslinger

 

[brphoenix]

lol it settled we make an exact copy of neo from the matrix and repackage it as gunslinger

Hang on. Just because someone uses handguns and has prowess in slow-mo you instantly connect it to Neo? Haven't you ever heard of Max Payne?

By the way, if it was an "exact copy of neo from the matrix" he'd be able to fly, and would see everything with numbers and letters. The former is overpowered, the latter is weird.

 

[Reise]

Well it goes from legitimate gameplay concerns to everything under the sun that people can come up with to try and argue against the idea.

I'd rather we stayed within the realm of the game as far as actual disagreements are concerned.