Gunslinger Perk - Yes or No?

[brphoenix]

Instead of increasing carry capacity for handguns, you could give the Gunslinger a weight discount for handguns. This would produce the same effect but with easier coding. So for a lvl 5 GS the handguns would weigh 20% less, letting him carry all 5. Dual 9mm's and Handcannons would weigh 3 instead of 4, and the Pfeifer .600 would weigh 8 instead of 10, for a total weight of 14. At lvl 6 the weight discount could be 30% thus saving an extra slot with the Pfeifer, giving the GS extra loadout options.

In that quote, I proposed to reduce akimbo 9mm's weight overall. Meaning it would no longer weight 4 blocks to have another one. Whether you believe "blocks" correspond to the weapon's weight or ammo it carries, it makes no sense.
Weight discount for handguns is also something not very easy to code, at least not compared to reducing one arms' weight.

 

[robdude19]

In that quote, I proposed to reduce akimbo 9mm's weight overall. Meaning it would no longer weight 4 blocks to have another one. Whether you believe "blocks" correspond to the weapon's weight or ammo it carries, it makes no sense.
Weight discount for handguns is also something not very easy to code, at least not compared to reducing one arms' weight.

Weight discount for handguns is easy to code, and makes more sense as a Gunslinger skill than removing the akimbo weight penalty, which would only apply to the 9mm. However, I agree that the current akimbo weight system doesn't make a ton of sense.

Anyway, to update my perk stats suggestion:

Gunslinger lvl 6
--------------------------------
+75% damage with handguns
-50% recoil with handguns
60% faster reload with handguns
60% faster draw with handguns
+50% handgun ammo
-30% handgun weight
+15% movement speed with handguns
70% discount on Handcannons and S&W 500
Spawn with Dual Handcannons and Dual 9mm's
--------------------------------
-

 

[Nin]

Bump.

Wow, didn't see this thread on the first page of the Suggestions part of the forums. Sort of panicked and thought TWI had deleted this because it was a stupid idea. Which it isn't.

 

[NoobZilla]

I have an idea that would really make this perk stand out.

It's a known fact that Killing Floor DOESN'T have crosshairs, you have to aim down your gun's sights to be accurate.

How about giving a crosshair to the gunslinger when he's using the handguns?

Give him an extra accuracy bonus for "hip firing" and a little crosshair as well. That would specially help the class when trying to go akimbo/dual yield.

Everyone knows that when you aim down the sights when holding both pistols, you're still awufully inaccurate, but the gunslinger class would give you a crosshair and an accuracy bonus when doing so.

 

[mamoo]

In that quote, I proposed to reduce akimbo 9mm's weight overall. Meaning it would no longer weight 4 blocks to have another one. Whether you believe "blocks" correspond to the weapon's weight or ammo it carries, it makes no sense.
Weight discount for handguns is also something not very easy to code, at least not compared to reducing one arms' weight.

True, shouldn't an extra 9mm use the same weight as the first, 1 block? That said, by that logic dual HCs would be 8 blocks...

 

[Zedocide]

The majority of "yes" votes were probably only due to the fact that the proposed class's tier 3 is a revolver. It would be much simple to give Sharpshooter a Revolver. I agree with the first reply to the thread, saying that the ZED time boost would be annoying. ZED time is perfectly balanced how it is, with the current chance and the classes' extension abilities. Anything more would be both bothersome and unbalanced.

Tripwire implementing the Demoman was terrible enough, do you really want this game to become TF2 with "zombies"? (aka a spam fest with little to no teamwork, which is what the Demoman has already started)

 

[Zeptorem]

You guys aren't seriously suggesting they put that abomination in for the Tier 3 are you?

If you're going for that, you might as well find the most ridiculous custom pistol you can get, like one that shoots full sized .50 BMG.

Agreed. I think I would burst into flames out of pure rage if that were added to the game.

I mean, come the **** on. Are you guys sure you didn't mean to post this on the Serious Sam suggestions board?

 

[robdude19]

@ Zeptorem: The Pfeifer is a real gun, not a laser cannon or plasma gun. The S&W 500 isn't enough of an improvement over the .50 Desert Eagle to justify being added to the game. And for a Gunslinger perk to be added, a serious hardcore handgun needs to be added to increase his firepower. Any other suggestions?

 

[Reise]

Yes, something that isn't that thing you dug up.

"Damage" is a relative term when talking about guns. The .44 I've been suggesting would be fine IMO. It would obviously be more accurate than the Desert Eagle, and its power would be comparable.

 

[robdude19]

@ Reise: what's the point of adding a new handgun like the .44 Magnum or S&W 500 that's "comparable" to the in-game .50 Desert Eagle? There is none. Come back with a better suggestion.

A tier 3 handgun would have to be a major improvement over the Handcannon in terms of damage. The SCAR does double the dmg of the AK-47, the M14 has 5X the fire rate of the LAR etc. Without getting into machine pistols which is Medic/Commando territory, the only option left is massive knockdown power.

EDIT: the S&W 500 round puts out about twice the kinetic energy as the .50 Desert Eagle round, and would be an excellent tier 3 candidate.

 

[Zeptorem]

@ Zeptorem: The Pfeifer is a real gun, not a laser cannon or plasma gun. The S&W 500 isn't enough of an improvement over the .50 Desert Eagle to justify being added to the game. And for a Gunslinger perk to be added, a serious hardcore handgun needs to be added to increase his firepower. Any other suggestions?

Are you serious?

Maybe we're playing different games, but with the perk bonuses everyone's suggesting, the desert eagle would seem to be plenty effective. In your little "AK-vs-SCAR" example, the Beretta is not the AK, nor is the Desert Eagle. The Desert Eagle is the SCAR, and the Beretta is the bullpup. What I've suggested a few times before as a "middle ground" pistol is maybe something like a Bren Ten or a SW 1006 or some manner of 1911 clone.

The desert eagle is already quite powerful and low-capacity, and shot recovery is measured in geological epochs, so a whole big revolver (especially something as outright dumb and cartoony as that ridiculous .600 NE revolver) is entirely unnecessary.

Imagine if Commando initially had only the Bullpup and the SCAR, and everyone decided that since the other classes had "tier-3" weapons, it needed one too. I know! Lets just give it an M2HB heavy machine gun!

Or if Support only had the pump shotgun and the AA12, someone would inevitably suggest that, since we need some way to top the firepower the AA-12 provides, that we need to put in a punt gun since, well, they need a seriously hardcore shotgun to increase his firepower, am I right?

Punt gun, HMGs, whatever. All as realistic and fitting to the game's aesthetic as that stupid ****ing Pfeifer-Zeliska.

As for the perk itself... why? I know someone, in a flash of undeniable genius, posed the never-before-posed question of "why not", which is the critical difference between developers and people who just post things on the suggestion boards. While the latter are perfectly willing to overload the game with stupid crap for no real reason, the former actually think before adding stuff to the game and make sure it serves a real purpose.

I mean, Gunslinger would do nothing other than fulfill the same roles as sharpshooter and commando, only it'd do each job worse and with sillier guns.

 

[brphoenix]

I mean, Gunslinger would do nothing other than fulfill the same roles as sharpshooter and commando, only it'd do each job worse and with sillier guns.

Aaaaaaand here's the catch. You even said it yourself!

Sharpshooter does one job. Commando does another. Neither one of them does the other's job. And the GS would do BOTH at the same time.

Btw, they're not "sillier" guns. True, if you're in a zombie apocalypse, you'll not use handguns to survive. But, I doubt you'd go to the battlefront with a KATANA (Berserker plz?) either. So you can't say they are silly guns, when 'zerkers use friggin MELEE. If that's your argument, remove the 'zerker too! They have silly weapons! Who uses a fire axe to kill zombies??

As for the weapons. It's true that handcannon deals the same damage an M14 does, and slightly more than the SCAR does. HOWEVER, you missed a CRITICAL detail: M14 has a 20-round clip and laser sight, and SCAR is fully automatic, has a red dot sight, and both have plenty spare ammo.
That said, you must think twice before saying the HC is a tier-3 weapon, or comparable to one. If it were one, it would cost 500

 

[Reise]

@ Reise: what's the point of adding a new handgun like the .44 Magnum or S&W 500 that's "comparable" to the in-game .50 Desert Eagle? There is none.

Look at the Crossbow.

Why should a bolt kill a Fleshpound in 1 hit when we have more "powerful" weapons like the M14?

Plus, it's not just any .44, it's a Dirty Harry-style Model 29! That's 10x the awesome of some cheesy Desert Eagle.

If we absolutely have to I could agree with making the Deagle the tier 3, and make the revolver the tier 2.

 

[brphoenix]

Look at the Crossbow.

Why should a bolt kill a Fleshpound in 1 hit when we have more "powerful" weapons like the M14?

Plus, it's not just any .44, it's a Dirty Harry-style Model 29! That's 10x the awesome of some cheesy Desert Eagle.

If we absolutely have to I could agree with making the Deagle the tier 3, and make the revolver the tier 2.

Deagle has way more weaknesses than strengths when compared to the other tier 3. Small clip, no spare ammo, no helpful aiming assists, same power than others. Either it needs a REAL buff, or a new revolver to be compared to other tier 3s.

 

[Reddog]

I'd like to hear why, really. You think it's bad because you don't want to have the pistols taken away from SS? Or you're against the zedtime-based bonuses?

Neither, I think the game has enough classes and basing one around pistols with some ridiculous elephant gun of a handgun at the top tear is unnecessary.

 

[Reise]

some ridiculous elephant gun of a handgun at the top tear is unnecessary.

I dunno if anyone here is in support of the Pfeifer-Zeliska. It's just out of place.

 

[Temstar]

If you're going for that, you might as well find the most ridiculous custom pistol you can get, like one that shoots full sized .50 BMG.

You asked for it:

Thunderer .50 BMG:

Single shot, breech loading (you know, like an artillery piece) handgun chambered for .50 BMG. Has artillery style hydro-pneumatic recoil dampening system and muzzle brake. The whole barrel and breech will recoil backwards relative to the grip after firing, the hydraulic recoil suppressors will then bring the barrel + breech back forwards for reloading.

 

[nath2009uk]

I want that for the sole reason of using it's recoil to backflip over Fleshpounds.
Srsly.

 

[Madhate969]

I dunno if anyone here is in support of the Pfeifer-Zeliska. It's just out of place.

I do support an excessive teir 3 gun for a GS perk. something that a person shouldn't carry 2 of because it may rip their arm off, with a slow reload, but a good deal of stopping power. A pistol that you wouldn't feel emberessed to pull out when the FP comes around the corner. But not going to pop the head off like a cross bow.

 

[brphoenix]

I do support an excessive teir 3 gun for a GS perk. something that a person shouldn't carry 2 of because it may rip their arm off, with a slow reload, but a good deal of stopping power. A pistol that you wouldn't feel emberessed to pull out when the FP comes around the corner. But not going to pop the head off like a cross bow.

S&W .500 is already that. Pfeifer-Zeliska is just plain overkill. And if devs would want to stick to reality, it'd be as overpowered as a crossbow.

I think the best really would be to add a "generic" revolver (you know, named "Revolver"). With an astounding destructive power, but with the same disadvantages the HC has, except for lack of ammo. 6-round clip, double action, high recoil, double to triple HC damage, and when you draw it, your character may say "put two wheels on this and it's a cannon" (JK, that's something from TF2).