Guns Are Way Too Accurate

[Maizel]

I also think the thing is way too polarized.

I can believe a gun won't shake like the user has Parkinson, but I also very much believe that a gun won't be as steady under , exhaustion, fear and being in battle in general.

A little increase in sway or accuracy when exhausted or suppressed would already go a long way.

 

[Al_Ka_Pwn]

Same tired old argument about realistic engagement ranges. I'm certainly no armchair gun nut, as I am most definitely out every weekend and up until the last few months I had access to a huge variety of historical and modern firearms and spent most my weekends at the range.

RO1 played at unrealistic engagement ranges. You should not be missing **** within 50m, and you should be able to easily hit a moving target at 100m.

And honestly, do you really think that an individual soldier shoots 250,000 bullets just to kill one guy? You have to remember that a lot of the engagements we fight don't end with any deaths, as one side retreats before any casualties are taken. Not to mention the volume of suppressive fire. In fact,.

"Yeah hey guys I'm not an armchair gun nut, but I do spend my weekends firing historically accurate firearms b/c I'm not a gun nut"

Show a video of you firing an SMG at a target and getting all of them tightly grouped. Maybe a 4 inch difference b/c I've yet to see someone fire a period weapon at a range of 60 yards and get as tight a grouping as you can get at the distances in this game. If you don't have that kind of evidence then come back when you do.

and no, you're stupid if you think what someone is insinuating is one soldier fired all those bullets. What that says is that over the course of days of firefights between hundreds of soldiers that's what on average a platoon of soldiers would spend firing before they were able to kill someone. B/c in order to kill someone military warfare revolves around suppressing people and flanking them. Those tactics haven't changed from world war 2. Warfare does surprisingly enough not revolve around hiding behind cover and waiting for them to stick their head up before shooting it. I know that's an amazing thought.

 

[Alexander Ostmann]

You do realise that at 200m a bullet is still rising in it's ballistic arc, especially if your weapon is zeroed correctly? If anything, it's inacurate that you don't have to aim low at 200m.





Wally

Finally someone who understands how a rifle behaves.

 

[The_Cook]

I agree more sway, more suppression and stamina penalty

 

[Josef Nader]

Nice videos and all but you noticed the time he takes and his position. if a rifleman is covered like that and would have placed his gun like that...no one would complain however in RO2 players can do that after a full sprint while standing

I understand that fully, but this thread is about the GUNS being innacurate. Frankly, I don't want palsy-sway added in to artificially bull**** me out of my accuracy.

I don't know about you guys, but I miss a lot more than I hit. You know why? The game is intense. I'm trying to track a lot of things at once. The targets are moving very fast, and I'm trying to keep my exposure to a minimum. The game simulates the stresses of combat on YOU, the player, so if you miss it's because you are undergoing the stress. They don't need to add drunken sway and retarded bullet spread.

 

[pumpy]

How about settle time affecting deviation? This works really well in the Battlefield 2 Project Reality mod and leads to longer, more interesting firefights.

 

[Syonco]

Yep please nerf the weapons.. too easy

 

[The_Cook]

THIS! This, this, this. I am frankly shocked to see how ridiculously unrealistic the average gamer's perception of guns and their capabilities are. Complaining about "no bullet drop over 200 meters"? You're kidding, right? Even a handgun is effective at 200 meters, do you have any idea about the effective range of a Karabiner? Where do people get this idea that guns are designed to shoot bullets all over the place with no penetration power? I really think some of us have been playing far too much arcade shooters. If you really don't like the fact that a MP40 can fire with accuracy at 200 meters (which it was factory-sighted for) and kill in one or two hits then guess what? Realism shooters are not for you. Guns are designed to be effective. The Heer did not use the MP40 because you couldn't hit anything a hundred yards away.

And furthermore, if you really think that rifles are less-effective at long ranges than SMGs are, you are just **** with rifles. Sorry. The absolute reliable deadliness of a rifle at any range is something SMGs can not even come close to competing with in the hands of a capable user. That doesn't have as much to do with realism as it has to do with you sucking with a rifle.

There are even people complaining that good accuracy on all guns = no skill? LOLWUT? How does it require MORE skill to fire guns that rely on luck instead of accurate fire? rofl. I loved RO1, don't get me wrong, but the SMGs were pathetic. How can you possibly feel like a trained soldier when you can't fire more than 3 rounds from the MP40 without succumbing to recoil? I mean really. I think the average German soldier could handle firing a 9mm submachine-gun. The average American can, enough said right?

That's cause you sucked at SMG.. RO vets learned very quickly you just pulled down on your mouse to compensate for mp40 and ppsh recoil. The guns in this game have no sway in a standing and unsupported position, ADS without stamina, hvy suppression. Basically at this point there is no difference between RO2 guns and any arcade shooter on the market.

 

[Al_Ka_Pwn]

I understand that fully, but this thread is about the GUNS being innacurate. Frankly, I don't want palsy-sway added in to artificially bull**** me out of my accuracy.
.

If you put a gun in a vice and used a laser sight to aim I'm sure you could get some good hits with the rifle. if you put the gun in the hands of a german soldier who is running, being shot at and under stress your aim would not be as good.

A better thread name would have been "gun mechanics are too accurate"

 

[Josef Nader]

"Yeah hey guys I'm not an armchair gun nut, but I do spend my weekends firing historically accurate firearms b/c I'm not a gun nut"

Show a video of you firing an SMG at a target and getting all of them tightly grouped. Maybe a 4 inch difference b/c I've yet to see someone fire a period weapon at a range of 60 yards and get as tight a grouping as you can get at the distances in this game. If you don't have that kind of evidence then come back when you do.

and no, you're stupid if you think what someone is insinuating is one soldier fired all those bullets. What that says is that over the course of days of firefights between hundreds of soldiers that's what on average a platoon of soldiers would spend firing before they were able to kill someone. B/c in order to kill someone military warfare revolves around suppressing people and flanking them. Those tactics haven't changed from world war 2. Warfare does surprisingly enough not revolve around hiding behind cover and waiting for them to stick their head up before shooting it. I know that's an amazing thought.

Armchair generally insinuates that I know my stuff thanks to books, not first-hand experience, but whatever.

Sadly, I have moved away from my old shooting buddies, so I cannot provide such a video. However, I can confirm that I managed to group a full 30 round burst of 9mm ammo from an M11 (give or take 5 bullets) onto a target stapled to one of those campaign signs from 50 yards, and I can guarantee the M11 has SIGNIFICANTLY more recoil than the PPSh or MP40.

And if you took the time out to read my post, you would understand that I KNOW that. Modern engagement ranges take place at such a great distance you are usually shooting at muzzle flashes. You can't even see your enemies. It's not because the guns are inaccurate, it's because the ranges are so extreme. At the ranges we're playing at in RO maps like Apartments, the number of deaths would be a lot higher due to the brutal nature of CQC.

And you guys, honestly, act like you can hit every single shot every time. If you could, you're obviously using an aimbot. Thanks to the increased movement speed, better cover mechanics, and all around increased flow, as I said above, I tend to miss FAR more shots than I hit, and I'm pretty sure this runs the same for everyone else. This is because YOU, the PLAYER, are under stress, not because the ironsights are swaying like you're trying to shoot in a hurricane.

 

[Al_Ka_Pwn]

That's cause you sucked at SMG.. RO vets learned very quickly you just pulled down on your mouse to compensate for mp40 and ppsh recoil. The guns in this game have no sway in a standing and unsupported position, ADS without stamina, hvy suppression. Basically at this point there is no difference between RO2 guns and any arcade shooter on the market.

yes, Bf3 comes out not too long from now, if red orchestra 2 is to survive it needs to differentiate itself from it, not emulate it.

 

[HLudwig]

You do realise that at 200m a bullet is still rising in it's ballistic arc, especially if your weapon is zeroed correctly? If anything, it's inacurate that you don't have to aim low at 200m.Wally

A rifle round doesn't rise. It just keeps on going until it loses inertia and then begins to make it's classic arch down to the ground, or hitting something on its way down, which ever happens first.

 

[Paas]

No I rather inform the misinformed, but its getting annoying. Even the devs have commented about it. Random *** swaying doesn't = realistic, making something difficult just for the sake of difficulty doesn't = realism, it's stupidity. You also joined in 2011 so I think it's safe to say you're a NEWB.

Being right doesn't mean you have to be a dick. You could use some manners. I agree with your position though. Also, forum join date doesn't reflect time played.

-Paas

 

[Josef Nader]

A rifle round doesn't rise. It just keeps on going until it loses inertia and then begins to make it's classic arch down to the ground, or hitting something on its way down, which ever happens first.

Unless you adjust your sights to compensate for this, giving the barrel a slight upward angle to increase your range.

Come on, guys. Shoot some real guns.

 

[Paas]

A rifle round doesn't rise. It just keeps on going until it loses inertia and then begins to make it's classic arch down to the ground, or hitting something on its way down, which ever happens first.

The round rises because the sights lift the muzzle.

-Paas

 

[Al_Ka_Pwn]

Armchair generally insinuates that I know my stuff thanks to books, not first-hand experience, but whatever.

Sadly, I have moved away from my old shooting buddies, so I cannot provide such a video. However, I can confirm that I managed to group a full 30 round burst of 9mm ammo from an M11 (give or take 5 bullets) onto a target stapled to one of those campaign signs from 50 yards, and I can guarantee the M11 has SIGNIFICANTLY more recoil than the PPSh or MP40.

And if you took the time out to read my post, you would understand that I KNOW that. Modern engagement ranges take place at such a great distance you are usually shooting at muzzle flashes. You can't even see your enemies. It's not because the guns are inaccurate, it's because the ranges are so extreme. At the ranges we're playing at in RO maps like Apartments, the number of deaths would be a lot higher due to the brutal nature of CQC.

And you guys, honestly, act like you can hit every single shot every time. If you could, you're obviously using an aimbot. Thanks to the increased movement speed, better cover mechanics, and all around increased flow, as I said above, I tend to miss FAR more shots than I hit, and I'm pretty sure this runs the same for everyone else. This is because YOU, the PLAYER, are under stress, not because the ironsights are swaying like you're trying to shoot in a hurricane.

The majority of fighting on the European front in world war two and even the wars taking place in Iraq and Afghanistan are primarily urban combat where suppression fire is even more important since troops lack cover and engagements take place in short distances.

[Source] http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1109/p01s01-usmi.html

Also I say you're an arm chair/gun nut b/c you claim to know how things would work in a combat situation when all you have ever done is fire guns at a target in a controlled enviroment so you lack first hand combat experience. Despite evidence that it takes a **** TON of bullets to kill someone you go on saying how easy it is to shoot at another human being and kill them.

in b4 you claim to be in the military and say you fought in some obscure battle somewhere.

also how convenient that you suddenly can't produce any evidence.

Finally we're not claiming everyone has aimbot, we're claiming they have a modicum of skill that the people who play counterstrike and other FPS games for the last decade have. Who win games on twitch.

 

[Panzer Jager '43]

The rounded rises because sights lift the muzzle.

-Paas

Yea, if you're zero'd for 500m the shot will be high at 200m.

But in another scenario if you're zero'd properly at 100m you won't be rising at 50m. Not enough difference.

Edit:
Anyhow I wouldn't mind if SMG and Pistol accuracy went down, and Semi-Auto Rifles should lose a *tiny* bit of accuracy too. Changes in those departments would be good for balance, but MORE IMPORTANTLY can also be realistically justifyable.

 

[Jakers]

How about settle time affecting deviation? This works really well in the Battlefield 2 Project Reality mod and leads to longer, more interesting firefights.

You wouldn't expect, especially with all the discussed hindering situations, to have your gun bang on with with no adjustment each time you raise it. I'm talking about lining up your 2 sights to the center of the screen so accurately.

Ex: your weapon raises to Iron Sights slightly crooked or off center, and automatically drifts into ideal firing position (lined up correctly). This on a small level may add a bit of natural preparedness before an accurate shot.

 

[Pig]

No I rather inform the misinformed, but its getting annoying. Even the devs have commented about it. Random *** swaying doesn't = realistic, making something difficult just for the sake of difficulty doesn't = realism, it's stupidity. You also joined in 2011 so I think it's safe to say you're a NEWB.

random sway yes, controlled sway like up/down. like real soldiers do=realism

 

[Etienne.S]

I have to agree with OP. I was playing on the Grain Elevator map and was sniping Soviets that so happened to peak outside of a window on any floor. I was of course outside right out of spawn doing this. There was zero bullet drop. These shots had to be a good 200 meters

Shooting on an angle, up or down, always results in bullets hitting high. The sharp angles shooting at the upper floors could even be hitting higher than a 100m zero at 200m.