Guns Are Way Too Accurate

[Oo.k.]

I have to agree with OP. I was playing on the Grain Elevator map and was sniping Soviets that so happened to peak outside of a window on any floor. I was of course outside right out of spawn doing this. There was zero bullet drop. These shots had to be a good 200 meters

It's not 200m at all, it's fairly close... Just inside the zone where the bullets start to falloff, if you played FF map you would know that the bullet start to falloff around 150m and you have to aim higher to score a hit. Please go back to play grain and watch the meters when you kill someone, it's not 200m... You will not hit someone with your crosshair on him at 200m.

 

[Maizel]

the question isn't how accurate the instrument itself is or what some fatso can do sitting in a chair thousands of miles away from harm
if you want to simulate the problem in RO2; go run around getting shot at by nazis for 10 minutes then suddenly stop and within half a second snipe that dime
a little bit harder

Very good points. Maybe it's not the accuracy of the gun that is the problem, but the accuracy of the user under certain conditions.

 

[Oo.k.]

Also in real life, the 98k as an effective range of 500m, the scoped version is 1000m and the mp-40 is 100m.

 

[Tairos]

Very good points. Maybe it's not the accuracy of the gun that is the problem, but the accuracy of the user under certain conditions.

Well of course. The "skills" types who take the statement to literally mean the guns themselves are too accurate are being deliberately obtuse.

 

[Spindle]

They already do...except bullet spread. What they have is recoil. I mean, SMGs aren't going to be that accurate out to 500m or anything, but close up bullets aren't going to magically curve in the air.

Bullet spread in that sense will never exist in RO2.




The only problem is standing weapon sway. That should be increased, by a lot. Otherwise, it's fine.

Been shot multiple times through a brick wall ... I was like wtf
Even pistols can shoot through brick walls it appears xD

 

[Oo.k.]

Let's be smart here, the guns in the game are as accurate as you are with your mouse. There's still that velocity, distance and recoil factor added to some extent, and it's good the way it is... it's why people are enjoying the game. Adding a random factor with your cone and heavy breathing annoying over-the-top sway is not going to make the game fun at all.

It's just a game, think about it.

 

[crockett]

I kind of like that the guns are pretty accurate. It means non of those stupid game moments of, oh I missed u from 3 ft away with the barrel pointed at your torso.

 

[Hektor88]

In WWII firearms were nothing new. Mass-produced firearms had over 130 years of refinement before WWII came around. All firearms are designed and engineered to be as accurate as possible whilst also being managable to handle whilst firing.

Saying the guns are too accurate for WWII is like saying that cars of today drive too smoothly. Welcome to realism, do you have a problem with it? Unrealistic shooters employ recoil inaccuracy as balancing mechanics against damage and rate of fire. These are woefully unrealistic representations of weapon accuracy.

As for penetration of SMG's? Walls in buildings are split into two types supporting/structural and non-supporting/dividing. Dividing walls of the era were basically just plasterboard over a wooden frame and some filling/insulation like asbestos or often no filling at all in many cases. It was cheap and fast to construct. Walls like this are easily penetrated by low caliber rounds like 9mm.

THIS! This, this, this. I am frankly shocked to see how ridiculously unrealistic the average gamer's perception of guns and their capabilities are. Complaining about "no bullet drop over 200 meters"? You're kidding, right? Even a handgun is effective at 200 meters, do you have any idea about the effective range of a Karabiner? Where do people get this idea that guns are designed to shoot bullets all over the place with no penetration power? I really think some of us have been playing far too much arcade shooters. If you really don't like the fact that a MP40 can fire with accuracy at 200 meters (which it was factory-sighted for) and kill in one or two hits then guess what? Realism shooters are not for you. Guns are designed to be effective. The Heer did not use the MP40 because you couldn't hit anything a hundred yards away.

And furthermore, if you really think that rifles are less-effective at long ranges than SMGs are, you are just **** with rifles. Sorry. The absolute reliable deadliness of a rifle at any range is something SMGs can not even come close to competing with in the hands of a capable user. That doesn't have as much to do with realism as it has to do with you sucking with a rifle.

There are even people complaining that good accuracy on all guns = no skill? LOLWUT? How does it require MORE skill to fire guns that rely on luck instead of accurate fire? rofl. I loved RO1, don't get me wrong, but the SMGs were pathetic. How can you possibly feel like a trained soldier when you can't fire more than 3 rounds from the MP40 without succumbing to recoil? I mean really. I think the average German soldier could handle firing a 9mm submachine-gun. The average American can, enough said right?

 

[Deek]

I think the guns are fine. It's the dudes using them are the problem. When everyone is an Olympic-grade triathlete with nerves and steel, no fear of death and cyborg-like 4000 dpi precision, that has a way of making the guns seem too good.

 

[Pig]

Alright, you chuckleheads:



You getting that? On a windy day, no less.

Yes, it would be marginally more difficult to shoot if you were breathing heavily, but look at the accuracy of the weapon you're dealing with.

Honestly folks, go out and shoot some real guns before you tell us what is and isn't hard/impossible with the damn things.

Nice videos and all but you noticed the time he takes and his position. if a rifleman is covered like that and would have placed his gun like that...no one would complain however in RO2 players can do that after a full sprint while standing

 

[Sgt Jigglebelly]

...Laser guns that make teamwork unneccessary is exactly what RO1 vets DON'T want...

Also, refer to my post above... The current accuracy is NOT realistic. Mosins are not lasers to 200yards. Soldiers are not walking bench rests

^ pretty much this

having shot a few rifles, including my own mosin, which is in fair shape, they don't behave like lasers, they just don't, and that's me chillin' on a bench/table with the gun sitting just right, not being shot at by germans, sprinting thru the snow, etc.

however they simulate it, it would be nice to see the accuracy of some of the weapons adjusted to be less laser-like

effective range, blah blah blah, sure, but that's not how it always happens when you go out and shoot the rifle (and i'm not a terrible shot or anything lol)

 

[Mysion]

I personally think the accuracy is fine and sway just needs to be bigger and you get a bigger penalty for shooting while standing.

 

[melipone]

THIS! This, this, this. I am frankly shocked to see how ridiculously unrealistic the average gamer's perception of guns and their capabilities are. Complaining about "no bullet drop over 200 meters"? You're kidding, right? Even a handgun is effective at 200 meters, do you have any idea about the effective range of a Karabiner? Where do people get this idea that guns are designed to shoot bullets all over the place with no penetration power? I really think some of us have been playing far too much arcade shooters. If you really don't like the fact that a MP40 can fire with accuracy at 200 meters (which it was factory-sighted for) and kill in one or two hits then guess what? Realism shooters are not for you. Guns are designed to be effective. The Heer did not use the MP40 because you couldn't hit anything a hundred yards away.

And furthermore, if you really think that rifles are less-effective at long ranges than SMGs are, you are just **** with rifles. Sorry. The absolute reliable deadliness of a rifle at any range is something SMGs can not even come close to competing with in the hands of a capable user. That doesn't have as much to do with realism as it has to do with you sucking with a rifle.

Under perfect conditions the guns may be accurate, but you ignore real world practical considerations that impact real world accuracy (aka realism). Holding the gun steady, weather (freezing hands reducing accuracy and reaction time), terrain, movement, adrenaline, extremely limited amount of time you want to spend in the firing line, keeping the gun aligned while controlling recoil etc.

Now add to that the fact people don't play games for pure realism. If you did you wouldn't have half the gameplay elements. Realism is there because it can create good gameplay, immersion, depth etc. Part of the reason I always like WW2 games is the guns aren't all full/semi auto like modern shooters

Now i'm sure you want bandaging removed, lop sided teams with no map balance, radar removed (do you have sat nav or google earth?), Suppression removed (artificial gun movement?), weapon jamming just before you kill someone, get shot in the leg and you move slower until respawn, shot in the hand you can't shoot properly, remove recon plane, remove holding breath after sprinting, lack of ammo, Countdown and FF removed, make it harder to move and shoot (uneven ground), control front and back parts of the gun, no choice of weapon, G41 removed few or no pistols

Or do you want selective realism, and actually want a fun game to play based on your own perception of what makes for fun gameplay.

 

[Deek]

My opinion:

The game is an equation. Player realism versus weapon realism. It's a ratio, really.

Does the player get tired when he runs? Does his lack of stamina affect his shooting? How well can he aim when unsupported? How is he affected by suppression? Injury? How fast can he run for how long? All of these are questions of player realism.

How accurate are the weapons? To what range? Can they be fired from a perspective that mimics real life (iron sights, zooming)? These are issues of weapon realism (though the zooming could be argued on a player realism level, I suppose).

The ratio (ideally) should be even, a symmetrical equation. If the players are not realistic, the weapons need to be made less realistic to balance it out. If a player can run with excessive speed and stamina, shoot with unerring accuracy and have no fear of "death", the weapons need to be toned down or the game play will suffer.

Likewise, if the guns are realistic, the players must be made realistic to compensate. Super accurate guns at realistic range combined with a one-shot-kill formula should to be balanced against players that suffer from fatigue, sway, nerves, suppression etc. etc.

What we have here is an asymmetrical equation. The guns are realistic, the player aren't. Hence, we have a situation.

Just my opinion. Not looking for a flame fest. I like the game well enough, though obviously I feel there is room for improvement. That, or it's simply not the game for me. Either way, I'm happy to support TWI; one of the last, great developers truly dedicated to PC gaming.

 

[easyvue]

As it stands the guns in this game are all basically like laser rifles fired by robots in their extreme accuracy and quite frankly it's a little ridiculous. This basically negates the entire machine gun class since every gun is so accurate that if you stop moving to set up and provide covering fire or suppression your head will instantly be popped by any weapon from a distance of 200 yards.

Ideally how the game should work is rifles should sway since they're relatively heavy guns. The most sway happening if a person fires standing straight up with a stamina bar that is not full, or firing while suppressed, the second most sway coming from firing while crouched, and no sway from firing when in cover or prone.

and the SMG should have very little penetration and a good deal of bullet spread so that so that it doesn't act like a heavy machine gun in its killing power.

In b4:

"This is a game, it should be fun, I just want to kill stuff lol"

From a fun factor and game design stand point the game would be more fun with the guns being more inaccurate actually. It would put a bigger emphasis on exchanges of fire, suppression and flanking. all of these requiring team work.

A game that combines the arcadey aim of Call of Duty with the instant hit and die realism of arma is combining the worst aspect of both games and making a terrible experience where people will die all the time with little recourse in a game where death is heavily punished. Also due to the accuracy of all the guns it basically invalidates the entire supression mechanic as firefights are over so quickly that it doesn't even come into play and it basically pigeon holes the machine gun class into running around using the machine gun like an SMG to clear buildings as standing still long enough to even set up is a death sentence.

In b4: "Making the guns more inaccurate will just give the defenders an advantage and everyone will camp all day you stupid noob"

If the suppression system actually did something more than just turning your screen gray, suppressing defenders would actually be the answer to the defender's advantage. If suppression caused weapon sway and perhaps even vision blur it would put the combat emphasis on suppression and teamwork. But as it is suppression just makes popping people's heads a little more monochrome instead of doing anything useful.


In b4:

"I'm an arm chair general/gun nut and all of this is realistic. I can shoot the dick off a fly from 200 yards with every weapon"

No the weapons being able to hit things so accurately is not realistic. The guns maybe that accurate when fired by a robot, or under the very best of conditions, but in practice it is actually very difficult to hit and kill a moving human target, as evidenced by the fact that it takes 250,000 bullets to kill an insurgent even with today's modern weapons.

Source [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...se-250000-for-every-rebel-killed-508299.html]

In world war 2 there were firefights, exchanges of fire, battles lasted for hours with only hundreds of men. The fact is people are not that accurate with weapons in battlefield conditions.

So please make the guns more inaccurate so that we can have a bigger focus on tactics and not twitch. Make suppression actually useful, and make it so that playing the machine gun class is viable, and not just another type of SMG class.

I would love for these changes to happen, I just bought ro2 after seeing my buddy play ro1 ages ago but its so surprising to see iron sight zooming which makes it so so easy to snipe, like ridiculously easy I get way more kills as a rifleman than MG, which is the opposite from what I remember of RO1.
The Omaha beach landing, if it took place in ro2, would be Americans sniping the German machinegunners on the hill as soon as the boats hit the land and then telling the Germans to learn to aim.

 

[Qweets]

how can you guys claim they are laser like when we haven't had a chance to shoot more than 200m in the game because we haven't had huge maps?? Of course they are still accurate at 200m they are supposed to be. The game has bullet drop in it, I was testing out long range shooting and it works just fine. You guys complain about everything jeez.

 

[Al_Ka_Pwn]

250,000 bullets to kill an insurgent even with today's modern weapons.

Has nothing to do with accuracy but with supression fire -.-

Why do you think they even need to suppress insurgents instead of instantly popping their head when they peek up to fire?

 

[hekuball]

When you talk about guns being too accurate would you expect the bullet to not go straight from the barrel? Maybe it should go on a little wander, take in a movie, grab some popcorn then make its way back on target

Probably the modeling a a tiny bit more sway and slightly slower to aim the rifle would make the game feel more realistic for ro1 vets but dont nerf the weapons.

 

[Tairos]

Why do you think they even need to suppress insurgents instead of instantly popping their head when they peek up to fire?

You just don't understand how much more uber the "skills" players are here than RL soldiers.

 

[Spindle]

The main thing is balance. The use of rifles is unnecesarry when your smg is as accurate as the rifle and even shoots faster AND can shoot through brick walls.


PS: Just got a pistol kill at 59 m DDDD