Grenade kill distance indoor

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LemoN

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Well, you are the one to make absolutely bogus claims, so it would be your turn to cite some sources. :)

Give me one single account of either a fragmentation grenade or a concussion grenade taking down a building. I'm talking about real buildings here, not the plywood sheds Americans call a house, and even those would easily withstand 3 frag grenades inside set off at the same time with an intact roof and closed windows containing the explosive force.

Also, 60g of explosives =/= 60g of explosives. A fragmentation grenade is a non directional explosive device, so that means that almost it's entire explosive power goes into "hot air", following the natural way of the least resistance. A directional charge on the other hand is the exact opposite, with most of it's energy being directed into one certain area or point.

While 15kg of explosives directed to vital positions with pre-drilled and weakened sections and directional charges set to take down steel beams (filled with water to increase the explosive force) are enough to take down a large structure placing the same 15kg of explosives into a room in that same building probably won't even scratch it's structural integrity.

Just stop pulling stuff out of your behind and grant us some insight into your all knowing mind. Unless you do that, stop making unsupported claims.

Also:
that could easily kill a friendly squad behind the man throwing the grenade
Not really.
While defensive grenades such as the F1 or the Mills Bomb do indeed have a lethal radius equal or greater than the effective range it can be thrown it doesn't mean that they are 100% lethal up to that range. A modern fragmentation grenade has a lethal range of about 10-15 yards with the capability to wound up to 30 yards. There is no way that if a soldier throws a fragmentation grenade he would kill or even wound an entire squad behind him. If they are out in the open, maybe slightly wound one or two, but the chances for that are pretty damn small.

Also your talk about "walls or rooms intensifying the force of grenades" is bogus. It's true that the concussion effect will be slightly enhanced, but this is only really relevant for offensive concussion grenades such as the Stiehlandgranate M24 of M43 without any fragmentation additives such as the Splitterring as this is what they have been designed for. Defensive grenades such as the Russian F1 fragmentation grenade nearly entirely rely upon fragmentation, on which a closed room or a wall nearby has exactly zero effect compared to it's fragmentation lethality.

Now if I may introduce your highness to the basics of grenades:

There are two main categories, Offensive grenades which often rely upon concussion and generally have a throwing range greater than it's effective lethality range and which have been designed to be used against fortifications such as trenches or bunkers, and Defensive grenades, which nearly entirely rely upon fragmentation and are most effective when used from cover against targets in the open.
 
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KingLol

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in a sub < Pi/2 'small load angle' steradian

Sure you don't mean solid angle? While we're on the subject of maths, you could've instead said "in the corner of a room" and the decombobulated dimensional surface integral in relative imaginary planespace would've made you sound 10000% less pretentious and annoying.

According to this, 80g of PETN isn't enough to take down a plane----> [url]http://news.discovery.com/tech/underwear-bomber-explosion-plane-test.html[/URL]

I'm guessing the explosives in your hand grenade wouldn't do much better either.
 

Hoak

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Lemon, clearly the discussion of over pressure with explosive ordinance detonating into or steradians, or solid angles if that makes it easier for you to understand escapes you, or has gone over your head. In either case your resort to petty sarcasim and insults betrays the quality of your argument.

Kinglol don't confuse using correct vocabluary (or your insecurity) with pretentious; as for your main stream media example an unknown quanitity and quality of explosive it's as moot example where there is precise science and measurment on the topic that can be consulted.

Keep 'guessing', that's a great arcation point for designing a game, and meaningful discussion...

:rolleyes:
 
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LemoN

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Clearly the discussion of over pressure with explosive ordinance detonating into solid angles, or steradians escapes you or has gone over your head. Your resort to petty sarcasim and insults betrays the quality of your argument.

Get well soon...

:rolleyes:

We are just asking for some proof for the claims you make.
Instead of avoiding my arguments you simply could try to engage in a normal conversation and try to put up some facts.

Look, I'm an invisible cat that can operate a computer, prove me wrong! :rolleyes:
 
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Oldih

Glorious IS-2 Comrade
Nov 22, 2005
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Lemon, clearly the discussion of over pressure with explosive ordinance...

Please tell us uneducated morons how often there is major case of overpressure with handgrenades and other small explosive ordnances so it's actually worth noting, especially with WW2 eguipment or did I miss the part where Stalingrad, Berlin, Warsaw and other cities were ruined just by tossing handgrenades around alot? Surely it would've saved alot of money, resources and manpower as there's obviously no need for air force or artillery to do that for you.
 

Hoak

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You do not work for Tripwire, and are not developing HOS, if they need the proof, references and measures -- I'll provide them privately... You on the other hand can make the mental effort to look where I suggested and you'll find all the proof you need, and in the mean time flake off...

Olddih, take your petty sophmoric sarcasim and shove it!

:)
 
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KingLol

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superficially articulate waffle punctuated by frequent incorrect usage of language, low quality spelling to boot and some wikipedia-scrounged acoustic jargon.

Oops, I should've checked your post history before replying. It looks like you often make troll posts in this style. At least now I know you weren't serious.
:IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2:
 
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LemoN

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Lemon, clearly the discussion of over pressure with explosive ordinance detonating into or steradians, or solid angles if that makes it easier for you to understand escapes you, or has gone over your head. In either case your resort to petty sarcasim and insults betrays the quality of your argument.

Clearly you never realised that a grenade exploding in a corner still wouldn't even damage a brickwall.
Ever heard of the law of the least resistance?

Go on and live in your dream world where your uneducated, unsupported arguments make sense.
 
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Hoak

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Oops, I should've checked your post history before replying. It looks like you often make troll posts in this style. At least now I know you weren't serious.
:IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2:
Yes indeed, poster child troll post ya got there Kinglol; and you don't even have your facts straight; there no acoustic jargon in any of my posts in this thread, just physics, and geometry -- back to school for you. Spelling and grammar, you're not worth the effort...

Clearly you never realised that a grenade exploding in a corner still wouldn't even damage a brickwall.
Ever heard of the law of the least force?
I, never said it would... The discussion concerns boundry effects, reflected and confined energy in solid angles, and detonation physics...

Go on and live in your dream world where your uneducated, unsupported arguments make sense.
Take your sophmoric scarcasim, insults, and general ignorance back to the ghetto...

:rolleyes:
 
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KingLol

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Troll troll is troll trololol. The irony of your own post surely doesn't elude you?
:IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2:
*awaits badly phrased & ill thought-out 150 point rebuttal*
 

LemoN

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I, never said it would... The discussion concerns boundry effects, reflected and confined energy in solid angles, and detonation physics...

Then could you please explain how the eff one single grenade used in combat is supposed to destroy an entire undamaged building?
Because this is exactly what you claimed.

This is what we have been asking for all the time. Instead of throwing around with mathematical jargon without anything behind it, put down actual examples to support your claims. :rolleyes:

And sources and examples do not include telling people to do the calculations themselves.
 
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Vyllis

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Troll in sight ! A couvert !

Clearly you never realised that a grenade exploding in a corner still wouldn't even damage a brick wall.
Ever heard of the law of the least resistance?

That's true, i have some story about my stepfather who was in the army (Kosovo, Africa, FINUL (Liban)), and when they used grenades it generally didn't damage buildings, just making some scratch on the walls.

Even RPG did make scratch on armoured vehicles :p
 
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Oldih

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Nov 22, 2005
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I, never said it would..

Even if you don't have a lot of math, explosive ordinance knowledge or experience, history and testimonials of WW II infantry offer enough corroboration that the powerful hand grenades (that soldiers were already often afraid to use) had frighteningly powerful effects used in urban settings, that could easily kill a friendly squad behind the man throwing the grenade and bring even undamaged buildings down on friendlies.

:eek:

Besides that for a person who loves to point about grammar, termionology and such you seem to be doing pretty good job with your own typos.
 

Hoak

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Besides that for a person who loves to point about grammar termionology and such you seem to be doing pretty good job with your own typos.
Where? It wasn't me criticizing grammar it was KingLol... But in those instances where a grenade detonates near a boundary that it does not conspicuously destroy; where do you then does your magical thinking suppose the energy goes if not in a direction perpendicular to the boundaries it detonates near?

:rolleyes:
 

KingLol

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These pseudo-intellectual thinly veiled attempts at condescending posts of yours are less annoying than your perpetual rape of correct semicolon usage.
:IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2:
 

Forssen

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Nov 23, 2010
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Also your talk about "walls or rooms intensifying the force of grenades" is bogus. It's true that the concussion effect will be slightly enhanced, but this is only really relevant for offensive concussion grenades such as the Stiehlandgranate M24 of M43 without any fragmentation additives such as the Splitterring as this is what they have been designed for. Defensive grenades such as the Russian F1 fragmentation grenade nearly entirely rely upon fragmentation, on which a closed room or a wall nearby has exactly zero effect compared to it's fragmentation lethality.

Now if I may introduce your highness to the basics of grenades:

There are two main categories, Offensive grenades which often rely upon concussion and generally have a throwing range greater than it's effective lethality range and which have been designed to be used against fortifications such as trenches or bunkers, and Defensive grenades, which nearly entirely rely upon fragmentation and are most effective when used from cover against targets in the open.

The thing with concussion grenades is that they don't do damage through walls (in general) etc and are much safer for the own troop. Only cause you didn't remove the shrapnel it doesn't reduce the pressure difference created by the explosion. In more confined areas where the pressure is contained this aspect of the grenade damages is clearly a lot more lethal.

Note that the concussion part of a fragmentation grenade is more lethal then the fragmentation itself. However, it quickly gets dispersed with range if not confined.
 

Oldih

Glorious IS-2 Comrade
Nov 22, 2005
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then does your magical thinking suppose the energy goes if not in a direction perpendicular to the boundaries it detonates near?

I am not sure what you are presuming as I haven't asked anything else besides since when a handgrenade is capable of taking down a major building? Sure it could damage a small shack more or less or even destroy a small playhouse but major urban multistorey building - which is what you have basically been implying alot ?

Sure you could crash down a building with small amount of explosives if you drill holes in the support structure, fill them in and detonate or do something similiar yet obviously it's virtually impossible thing to do under wartime conditions. Sure if a handgrenade blows up in extremely confined space it's going to make more ugly mark than blowing up in a hall but even that would be dependant heavily on several other factors pragmatically speaking than just "throw grenade in a building and it turns into a mininuke" when you consider how the energy that comes from the explosion is not guided in any specific direction really, it's not shaped charge either and rooms can vary in terms of size and how many potential objects there can be to 'absorb' part of it so to speak. They're not just empty, flat tight spaces. You could easily toss few improvised satchel charges in some apartment and bust it up with notable collateral damage while the building itself would still be standing and be mostly undamaged. After all we're not talking about some light building.

There's quite notable diffrence between damage and complete destruction, as you can basically damage walls with a rifle bayonet presuming the material and other things are heavily favourable and you want to see if your workout has been fruitful.
 

Hoak

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Your carrying on about 'taking down buildings', once more it was Lemon that was talking about 'taking down entire buildings' not me. The topic as initiated is about the energy reflecting aspect of solid angles that are not destroyed by a grenade and the effect this has on a detonation flame front which moves in miles per second is not simple addition.

Moreover 'taking down buildings' was not my word use, 'bring even undamaged buildings down on friendlies' which can happen in structures like multi-level timber floor with masonry wall where reflected blast energy can spike and punch holes in unpredictable places. 60g of dense HE is plenty to create all sorts of surprises.

Does anyone moderate these forums?

:IS2:
 
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