Grenade Discussion (Merged About 3000 Times)

[Recce]

I've seen different accounts of this..some say some soldier types had few if any nades and some say everyone had at least 8? Anyone got some evidence either way?

If you look at the personal kit of the 101st Airbourne, when jumping on D-Day, as far as explosives go, they were issued with 2 fragmentation grenades, a smoke grenade, an anti-tank mine and a Gammon bomb (2lbs of plastic explosive for use against armour). And some carried sticks of TNT as well.

But this doesn't tell us what the the situation was at D-Day + 1.

However, I'm sure that on landing they didn't sling their personal weapon, prime their grenades and throw both of them within the first 2 minutes of combat. (OK, a lot of paratroopers lost large amounts of their kit due to the leg-bag, but that's another story.)

The real answer is based on how often units got a resupply / replen and how long they have been in combat for. A division or battalion would have an idea of the quantity of ammunition they would expect to use during a day's worth of combat. I'm sure the aim was to keep a unit properly supplied, but that couldn't be guaranteed.

I've come across a couple of people (from obits. and/or medal citation) who engaged the enemy armed with a bag of grenades. I'm sure Charles Upham VC was one of these.

 

[The_Cook]

Just noticed I can throw nades incredibly far

Just noticed I can throw nades incredibly far

I just noticed I can throw a nade REALLY far, I mean about 50yrds far. especially when I do a running jump throw.

I think the walking nade throw and running nade throw is okay.

But the jumping nade throw makes a nades range UBER.

I think it needs to be reduced, or the abillity to do a runing jump nade throw removed.

heck, how come nades are the only thing we can throw while running while we can't do anything else while running?

 

[Reise]

I don't know if I'd go as far as to say it's realistic, but you could say its like putting more force into the throw.

 

[Kaneohe]

...and the 'nades are broken' people are undoubtedly flocking to this thread already.

 

[KrazyKraut]

Not only is weapon switching too fast in general, I think it should also be slower when moving.

 

[Oldih]

Talking about grenades, it is not hard to get a german potato masher from your service belt even if you ARE jogging or moving quite fast. I mean it, you just pull it 'carefully' out from your service belt and that's it.

Priming it in jogging speed is not impossible either, it is just rather complicated since screwing the so-called cork open might be difficult. But putting a potato masher back properly in belt takes much more time than pulling it from it. And putting a nade back whatever the case might be is not just half-a-second job.


Nadetillery sure is a problem ingame, but there is no real way to control it with the current system. Personally I would like to see that we have a 'pull grenade' button. WHen you press it, you put your weapon in left hand (since everyone's right handed in RO), and pick grenade from your belt\gear\where ever it might be. Then, when the grenade is eguipped you press firing button as you do as usual to throw it. And if you don't want to throw it you press the button again, but you need to 'waste' like three seconds of time of putting the nade back belt\where ever you would keep it.

Plus then add some variety in fuses, some modifications in range and the fact throwing nade is not like sharpshooting with nades and voilah.


Just my five cents, but I guess that might be the 'simplest' option to slightly reduce it, since when you eguip a nade you can't defend yourself (I know you can in IRL but let's pretend our soldiers in RO don't know hand to hand combat and since they hold their weapon already in left hand while nade in right hand and blalabbla), and in case if you don't need it it takes about three seconds to put it back where it was.

 

[KrazyKraut]

I didn't say it should be impossible, i said it should take longer. Also you are forgetting that it's not just pulling the grenade from your belt, it's also putting your rifle on your back, which should be rather tricky while moving. At least for the Stielhandgranaten you need both hands to arm them. One handed arming might be possible with the F1, but really, I doubt the Russians pulled the pin with their teeth that often and it would still be less accurate...

 

[BuD_GrimReaper]

Simple laws of physics my friend =)
I use it myself shamelessly eventhough its a bit unrealistic considering i can throw them from the russian side of the bridge in danzig all the way to the command post and get like 5 kills if i'm lucky right off the bat

 

[Oldih]

Well it is not hard to 'quickly' swing your rifle back at you in jogging speed or slightly slower.. Atleast if you have sling in your rifle (or whatever it is called). But getting it back to your hands is bit more difficult compared to swinging it back.

Just kinda funny that with most of the weapons in RO you need to holster it temporarily just to pick up a grenade, while just putting your gun to the other hand for the time you pull the grenade in is much more simpler

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Well, I for one have learned a lesson (after one really bad night). On more crowded maps, I must be careful when and around whom I pull out a grenade, and I am going to try and follow a few pointers myself.

- When around friendlies, think twice about pulling out a grenade to throw it. Once the pin is pulled, get rid of it before you get shot! A dead nade can take out alot of friendlies and can be embarrasing at the same time (doubly so when a dev is in the server )
- If you are around other players running around with grenades ready to throw, get clear. Too many times they get shot and too late, you realize they pulled the pin as the nade goes off and kills you.
- In addition, use cover more. Always be aware of your surroundings so you can dive behind something in case you see an incoming grenade. Countless times I was saved because I was near furniture or crates, and I moved to the other side of them to be clear of the blast.

I can't really change how other people are playing, but I certainly can change what I do (I don't want to be part of the problem ). With more players in servers these days, you can play more cautiously and still see tons of nearly non-stop action. Be aware of other players and of your surroundings. You can save yourself and possibly other friendlies by just paying more attention.

 

[Gomer Pyle]

If I was in combat I doubt I would sling my rifle onto my back every time I wanted to throw a grenade. It takes too long and doesn't keep my rifle readily available. If I couldn't work the grenade while holding the rifle with one hand I'd just hold it by the sling. If I still couldn't work the grenade I'd lay the rifle down in front of me. Rifles shouldn't be on anyone's back while in combat.

That being said, I don't disagree with the idea of slower switching times between firearms and grenades, especially when the weapon is shot out of your hands. I'm not sure it would slow down gameplay. While two opponents are fumbling with rifles and grenades Rambo will probably trot through and mow them both down.

 

[Cnnbs]

addition to melipone's post i want to add more

1)pulling a nade takes time,watch in how many seconds are they able to throw nades in that same BoB,not to mention they are always behind cover while doing this not rushing towards enemy.

2)Grenade ranges:
our soldiers throw nade up to 50 meters in RO.Well you can argue if rl soldiers were able throw them that far that accurate but in RO typical firefights occur in distances around 100 meters most.
And there is sometype of cover every ten meters on almost every map.So this cuts down the effectiveness of bullets because you dont have a clear field of fire,there are always some obstacles in your shooting path.And our bullets cant even penetrate a 1cm thick wooden fence.

In real life except some dense urban fights most of the fights occured around a few hundred meters

3)while grenade ranges are not nerfed we have nerfed smgs and nerfed bullets.for example smg lose accuracy beyond 40 meters and bullets travel slower then rl bullets and add this fact to your average 90 ping, = you have to lead 0.5 meter infront of a running soldier for every 50 meters.But with nades you dont have to lead they are not affected by distance,ping or cover.

4)smoke nades,if attacking side has a decent squad leader there is always some smoke to cover your path during an attack,always!Smoke cuts that MG fire but not the nades.

Just read the dead messages in maps like lyeskrovy,stalingrad kessel,danzig,krasni smolensk(except bunker) etc.More than half of them are caused by nades.

 

[Oldih]

1)pulling a nade takes time

Really depends on the nade and situation, if we really nitpick. E.G. you can pull a potato masher from your belt even if you are jogging or even if you are running quite fast. It's not really hard thing to do. Actually it's very easy. It's just that the logic in RO is that you holster your weapon -> pull a nade -> throw or put it back -> ready your weapon.

I hope I don't soundo ffending, but just a sidenote.

 

[REZ]

I dont see the problem with a lot of people dieing from nades - they're meant to kill, you know. Shall we nerf the guns too since lotsa people die from those? How bout the arty - damn, it kills four and five guys all at once! Maybe we should make it less powerful and only one or two explosions. I mean hell... on Basovska you often get both teams' arty going off at the same time - how the hell can I get a steady shot off with all of this damn shaking!? Needs to be nerfed.


Really, I'm being sarcastic - and it's because people need to hear how limp their complaining of dieing by nade sounds. It's just weak to complain about it. Try adjusting your play. I did, and I die by nade much less. You all know that nades were prolific in this theatre.. dont talk about and appreciate realism in other threads then come in here and whine that your gameplay is affected because you cant anticipate when you are in someone elses nade range! There should actually be more nades if we wanna go realistic, no? In fact after reading many books, it appears to me that most of the deaths in this war could be attributed to explosives of some sort (bombs, mines, tanks, grenades, artillery, etc) - I'm under the impression that its much more than bullets.

Either way, its like the nade detractors completely shun the effectiveness of the weapon - which is why the damn things were invented in the first place! They're meant kill people (possibly many) who are in an area that you cant expose yourself to.

I can predict what the next detractor will say - 'but they dont use them how they are supposed to! - and all I have to say to that is ...they killed you and possibly more while remaining safe themselves right? Sounds good to me

 

[Oldih]

Biggest problem of the entire 'nadetillery' is the fact RO's gameplay is based on random inviduals.

Now, if we could have really simulated 'squads' (impossible though with the current system and with such small player amounts) then we could have some logic with the nadetillery. Otherwise it's just "Hey i frag jooo!"

REZ hits the jackpot.

 

[melipone]

DAMN NOOBS STOP COMPAINING ABOUT GETTING KILLED

Here we go again. Theres plenty of decent reasons for altering them. Its not just OMG I GOT KILLED BY NADE NERF!!111

Theres plenty of realism reasons people are talking about AND gameplay reasons. Similar to the Iron Sights dive thing that the dev's ended up agreeing with us on 10:1 IIRC.

 

[REZ]

So now you are going to try and relate grenades and how they're used to something that was recently deemed an exploit? There's nothing 'exploitive' about grenades. Admit that if you had it your way you would make them alot harder to use, much less effective, and scarce - for example, long switching times, less power, less range, less quantities overall - you want 'em nerfed! Admit it! ...and based on what? Reality? No, couldnt be.

 

[melipone]

snip

Well whether it was an exploit or not was part of the debate at the time. The similarities are that you opposed a change (a fix of what ended up being an exploit) because people should just adapt and put up with it in your opinion.

I feel that nades are too powerful for the amount of skill required to use them effectively compared to every other attack in the game. They are unbalanced (similarly to the iron sights dive). I know your response to this will be (based on what we got in the iron sights dive thread) that we can do it too so it IS balanced, or that we should just adapt and counter it. I reckon if there was a win button put in you would have the same response. "Well just press your win button - theres your balance". Basically with the amount of nades flying around on the maps you WILL die from them no matter what you do unless you choose to camp and not attack. I'm not talking about a huge nerf, just some little changes to no.1 make them more realistic (not their actual power but the way people use them - cooking, 100% accuracy, them never running out, etc) and 2 to encourage people to use the harder weapons in the game.

If you see me play you will see that I get **** loads of kills with nades. I'm not biased and shouting NERF because I get killed all the time by them. I just see that some improvements can be made IMO that will benefit everyone.

 

[Cnnbs]

Really depends on the nade and situation, if we really nitpick. E.G. you can pull a potato masher from your belt even if you are jogging or even if you are running quite fast. It's not really hard thing to do. Actually it's very easy. It's just that the logic in RO is that you holster your weapon -> pull a nade -> throw or put it back -> ready your weapon.

I hope I don't soundo ffending, but just a sidenote.

No none at all.

Switching from main+lob a nade+lob second nade+switch back to main weapon=3 or 4 seconds in RO,come on....
Not to mention i wrote 3 other things that is only one of them.

 

[Kaneohe]

I feel the gameplay affect of nades the way they are now is that they are too powerful for the amount of skill required to use them effectively compared to every other attack in the game.

Right. Just like reality.