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Grand Theft Auto IV - Mega Thread - Potential SPOILERS

You know, I've been a fan of the series since GTA, I was damn hooked on GTAIII and VC (never got to play SA) and I've always enjoyed it extremelly.

But the more I read about all the nifty features in this one, the more I am in doubt as to whether I'll be happy when it comes out.

The thing is - somewhere along the way, a certain line may have been crossed. Back in the days of GTA, with its arcadey feel, this was just a game. But as of - hmm - VC, or somewhere around that iteration, the whole thing became just too damn immersive, too bloody real. I mean, I know it's stupid for ignorant folks to pick on this series as the staple scapegoat when it comes down to the "games are bad, mmkay" debate. But as stupid as it may be, the series has grown into an epitomy of good games gone bad. Sort of, if you acquire my drift.

I mean, the game's cool in my book, because being the adult I am I'll be able to more or less draw the line, but I am absolutely friggin' freaked out when I think that adolescents are going to play this thing (and let's face it - they are going to do just that). I simply don't trust their judgement when it comes down to handling of what they learn in-game in the context of real life.
Especially that, I was told when I debated the issue with some friends, witnessing violence on the screen (and hey, it's almost as real as it gets, right?) does lower your sensitivity to these issues, meaning you're less likely to think it unnatural to either witness/perpetrate acts of violence in real life.

Your thoughts, folks?
 
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I think it's a game, and I'm going to play the hell out of it.

If players can't differentiate between real life and a game, they have bigger issues at hand.
What the Zipman said. I probably killed a million people in 300 different ways while playing videogames by now and it won't make me more violent.

Might influence some but most of the people acting violent already come from a real life violent environement.

So, it's all good and people blaming video games for killings are ****ing morons (not talking about you Kant :p) unwilling to study and face the real flaws society has.
 
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Well, I'm not questioning the fact that it's a game, I fully realise that. My gripe is over whether kids that are going to be playing this are going to realise. Let's put it this way - it's going to be like a "how-to" interactive course on crimes and a lot of sociopathical things.

Saying people who're unable to differentiate between life and game have issues is - to my thinking - not reflecting the fact that those said issues may bear terrible fruit and games are giving such folks hands-on training, bracing them for whatever violence they may have on their mind and further aggravating the situation.

I guess I'm beginning to profess an opinion similar to what I think of gun control - if the ****'s dangerous, then it should be kept away from people, since only a certain numer of people are going to fully understand the capacity for bad things happening with these around. Well, gun control's an entirely different matter and it may be cheap of me - I admit - to touch upon a topic that's bound to make many of the Americans present on these board irate, but that's not the point.
What's important to me is to look at it from a distance, approach it from an abstract standpoint and see the similarity of patterns. There is one, or is there?

Of course, outright banning of games is not a solution either. But I'd like to see some standards of humanity upheld, instead of the line being pushed further and further with every new violent game released and any values being trampled on. The crux of the problem is - it's pretty damn hard to say where to draw the line in this pursuit of realism, or verisimilitude, this need for greater mimesis. I mean, I have wet dreams about RO2 being so damn immersive, yet I'd deny such immersiveness when it comes to other genrese (like the "be a bad mofo thug" genre that GTA is a representative of). Not very consistent, I know. And perhaps a lot of needless theoreticising, but that's just me - musing on the condition of man, saddend by the choice of certain avenues humanity as a lot has decided to pursue.

And I would like to play this one, as much as I'm scared (for lack of a better word) of the totality of experience that it may provide. Just to see whether my fears are grounded or not.
 
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It's still not the game's problem. That's getting into a matter of parenting and having a kid that can tell real from fake. There are already blocks in place to prevent the sale of the game to minors. If a person is going to do something stupid, they're going to do something stupid, a game isn't going to set them off any more than a movie or the nightly news or a song or a TV show would.

This is bordering on some non-GTA talk here any more.
 
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Jack Thompson and Hitlarry would agree with you, Kannt.

You have to understand the fact that the biggest asset of GTA is not actually violence at all. It's humour. Games that have violence as their biggest selling point actually aren't that popular at all:

pamanhunt2.jpg


Yes, GTA has a lot of violence but it's done in such an over-the-top and comical way that it's hardly a "murder tutorial" or "dangerous". Stuff like that doesn't exist, anyway. A sane person would never go on a killing spree after playing a violent videogame anyway. If he does, things have went wrong in his head much earlier. Not because of a game.

I mean, you can't really take the violence in GTA seriously. The mopeds are called "Faggiots". The "Statue of Happiness" is holding a coffeecup instead of a torch. The radioshows, the street signs, and the list goes on and on. The GTA universe is a parody of the real world; if all of the corporations would stop lying, you'd get GTA. :D You just have to 'understand' this kind of humour I guess. The kids may love GTA for the violence ("LOL I can kill cops" etc), but the more mature fans appreciate the series for what it truly is; a funny-*** sandbox game.

It's nothing new either; rock 'n roll, Marylin Manson, Madonna, movies, books, drugs etc.. all have been the devil's spawn.

Bottom line: stop listening to the propaganda of a few politicians.
 
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all have been the devil's spawn.
More like the devil's pawn, amirite? :D

Anyways, Test Drive Unlimited being on a full scale Hawai with open roads, a realisitic interior view and an amazing Logitech G25 racing wheel sure did make my driving more agressive but we're digressing.

The game will be out very soon and IT'S A BIG ****ING RELIEF FOR SOME HARDCORE GTA FANS LIKE ME. Sorry about the caps.
 
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So, no offing, just back to talking about the game, mr. Moderator, sir? ;)

You have to understand the fact that the biggest asset of GTA is not actually violence at all. It's humour.

Ok, you and I and a lot of people around know that. And I love that sort of humour, because it makes for
a nice cocktail of intertextual references, spanning various media and various elements of pop-culture. That's so post-modern and so f*n great, true.
Yet - as you yourself admit - kids may fail to see it being funny and why the humour's there (i.e. to entertain, to mock, to ridicule certain phenomena present in modern-day societies), so they'll just latch on
to the "LOL I CAN KILL COPS OMFOMFOMFG!!!111". And that's what's worrying me, as I've already stated.

Yes, GTA has a lot of violence but it's done in such an over-the-top and comical way that it's hardly a "murder tutorial" or "dangerous". Stuff like that doesn't exist, anyway. A sane person would never go on a killing spree after playing a violent videogame anyway. If he does, things have went wrong in his head much earlier. Not because of a game.

Ah, so when it's funny it's not harmful? I think Tom & Jerry (to pick another prime scapegoat) has been receiving a lot of flak for showing violence in a funny way, sending the message "oh, come on, when you blast that guy's head off, it'll be hillarious!".
Actually, what got me to writing the first post in this topic here was reading the tounge-in-cheek article about "8 (?) new crimes GTA is going to be blamed for", the one that was linked to in the GIF and image topic. So hey - they are mocking it, and there is a grain of truth in their words, that some people are taking it too serious. But isn't there a grain of truth to arguments against the series (which is leisurely treated as a synecdoche for violent games in general)? Hell, I don't mean to spoil any fun you guys may have, because I'll be waiting for the PC version myself. Just wondering about whether such games are doing our society a favour in the long-run, or is it to the contrary. I mean, these are discussion boards, so I naturally assumed that one can have a discussion.
And I didn't even think of the parenting facet. Because I was primarily focused on those adolescent 14-18-ish jocks who think they are adult (because they may be such physically, although - oh - so often they are far from being grown up emotionally), who are going through a hormonal ****storm and are hyping themselves into rebelling against "The Establishment" (and I'm not necessarily talking about the openly non-conformist [at least in theory] subcultures like punks, skins, whatevers, no) - which means that parents have less and less to say about what they do or they don't. Pre-pubescent kids, I believe, can be contained far easier.

Now, as for violence in GTA being over-the-top - yeah it has been such, though the article I mentioned makes a point of emphasising that violence in this part has been remoulded into as real, mean and dirty as it gets, with knife fights being "gruesome" (IIRC). I don't have any other sources on this one, nor was on the lookout for them, so whoever has seen the game will be able to tell.

Bottom line: stop listening to the propaganda of a few politicians.

I haven't been (or at least not to the extent of my knowledge, but you know - being the fallible frail thing we humans are, I may be erring; if you have any information that would reveal me to be hooked on some propaganda, please let me know). Just talked with some friends about the series and about these games (and we've all played our share of it) becoming progressively more complex and about where that would lead us. And so I was curious of what you guys thought. Does that class as propaganda now?

On a side note - I'm happy that the stunt jumps have made their way back into the series. And yes, cruising in a car, with some good music on is the sh*t. Looking forward to doing some rounds as a cabby (though I wish cabs had more power under the hood, or at least that there was more variety to cab models).
 
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The bottom line is that people were violent before radio, tv, games, or any such media was around, and they always will be violent. It's in our natrue. I'd argue that there are things much more detrimental to our society than violent video games, decadence I'd have to say is a big one. And lets face it the more time rolls on the more decadent and self interested people are getting.

Lets forget this nonsense, 10 days and the GOTY will be upon us, I am going into EB tomorrow and paying off the rest of my pre-order (and getting an Xbox VGA cable and stereo dongle to play the game on my PC weeeeeeee)
 
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