Grand pa guns

[H.G.N.]

while looking for historical weapons for KF I came across an old topic that molded into an argument over how weapons from the world wars (for example of course) would fit in a modern setting that killing floor takes place in.

well to start off with...

its the ****ing Apocalypse!

with clones of clones of clones mobbing around in armies chasing down what remaining humans are still alive, realistically, it shouldn't matter what era a gun came from, if it still shoots, use it!

(ahem) anyways...

there are some weapons that are questionable for KF and maybe the H.G.N.* will help spark a few ideas:

first of all, I would like to re-open the discussion over the "nich" for the M1 Garand

thanks to the new game made by tripwire, rising sun, It will be easy to port or mod an M1 rifle into this game for the coding and model is already there.

next, this rifle would serve as a "next stage" weapon for the marksman as it's stats (metioned below) would put it above or before the M14EBR because of how well it operates in combat and it's in game price (which would vary on the developer)

the pros:

the .30-06 was a powerful rifle round to be standardize for the infantryman during it's service in the military and (of course) was replaced with the .308, which everyone's beloved M14 is chambered in, as a marksman round. The .30-06 sure doesn't reach but it has that punch that would knock and armored target on his ***.

so the m1 would have higher power

the amount of en-blocs (or clips) that could be carried on a vest is staggering: about 2-3 per mag pouch. How would I know this? I own an M1 and have carried a bandoleer-n-a-half worth of clips on my vest.

so you can imagine that one would get about 12-14 clips on hand that also adds the one already in the rifle.

so, aside from the lack of magazine cap, its made up in terms of carried ammo.

larger "spare ammo" capaticiy

the cons:

sadly, even the Cadillac of battle rifles has its weak points.

since we are facing monsters of a cloned verity, no need to worry about the famous "ping!" sound when the rifle empties.

yet, there is the weight: this rifle alone weighs in nearly at 6-7 lbs so it would obviously take up more space in your player inventory during the game.

next is the magazine cap: 8 shots before each reload, however, after some practice, this small cap would be overcome with simple muscle memory for reloading.

so...smaller mag cap but slightly faster reload time.


extras:

a unique feature that everyone tends to over look on the M1 is that little button on the left hand side of the action. pressing it and pulling the action back would eject the loaded en-bloc, so half mag reloads are possible.

also, the M1 can be modified with different attachments to work for each perk class. such as, a bayonet for the zerker, rifle nades for the demo as well a scoped variant for the marksman.

just a thought.

since i don't have a whole lot of time to make one massive post with several weapons. so I'll just make a series of posts of other weapons and explanations to go with them as I can.

 

[mrsirr]

Pssh I remember that first M1 Garand thread; turned into a ****ing blood bath.
Well it's not exactly an apocalypse, before they added the wierd characters the players were soldiers sent into the schlits to deal with it, so it's not totally dawg-nom-dawg.
I think the problem most people have with the setting is ie Would the trader really have a stockpile of these? And it doesn't always make sense, I won't argue that it does.
My main issue (probably isn't really an issue in-game) is how you mentioned the partial mag reloads. The issue isn't so much that you can't eject a partial clip, or even that you can't load one. The issue that I always think of is that clip shooting across the room, hitting the floor, and spewing loose rounds everywhere. Again, not a huge issue.

With all the stuff we have in the game, I don't really see it being a problem, but I find its addition unlikely.

 

[Clowndoe]

thanks to the new game made by tripwire, rising sun, It will be easy to port or mod an M1 rifle into this game for the coding and model is already there.

Why does everyone always say this? It's a different game engine, it uses different values and they have different standards for textures and animations. If they make this gun they will make it from the ground up.

Also, I have to object to using an American weapon when there's a perfectly suitable British alternative, the Lee-Enfield. Sure one's a semi-automatic and the other is bolt-action, but the bolts and levers in this game are lighting-fast anyway.

 

[Spartan1388]

So, no LMGs, no RPGs (except the LAW), no Sniper Rifles, no cheap .50 BMG ammo, no P90s, no Lee Enfield(!!!), but the trader can find M1 Garands???

 

[mrsirr]

I am in favor of Lee Enfield.
I think I'm on topic for once too.
Come to think of it, I think I heard that some branch of the English military might still use those, don't remember where I heard it though.

 

[Jpz38 Hetzer]

I would like to see a B.A.R. I think it could fit in because we ready have the mkb42, 3. tommy guns, and a trench gun. You could balance it by heavy weight, high cost, and 20 round mag. Idk what class it would fit under though.

 

[Clowndoe]

I would like to see a B.A.R.

Again, why have a BAR when have a perfectly serviceable British equivalent, the Bren?

 

[|WC|Capt.525]

Again, why have a BAR when have a perfectly serviceable British equivalent, the Bren?

'Cause there are only 'Murrican and German WW2 weapons, man. Haven't you ever seen any of the movies, they were the only ones in the War

 

[Jpz38 Hetzer]

Again, why have a BAR when have a perfectly serviceable British equivalent, the Bren?

Why not both?

 

[H.G.N.]

okay, chill folks. if this topic does not get shut down I will eventually post other weapons from the war, so don't really groan if I don't have every country mentioned here right away XD


the M1 was just the first gun that came to mind to be honest.


@spartan1388:


like I mentioned, if you are patient, I'll mention everything you have mentioned.


@mrsirr:


there wont be a "stock pile" of these rifles (even though they can be found more in number all over Europe and Asia), how about instead we just up the price of the few rifles she does have in stock?




anyways, I figured mentioning the M1 would open a can of worms but why not try to explain a little more about it compared to the last guy who tried to suggest this gun, right?

 

[H.G.N.]

While the M1 might not be looked over to be added but there are a hundreds of other old war weapons to be considered right?



how about I just satisfy everyone and awnser their questions by bringing up the Lee Enfield?




The Enfield rifles have the second longest track record in military history, with the AK taking the lead. The Enfield rifles actually started out as a musket and evolved into the favorite we know to this day.


from flint lock, to percussion, to the late 1800s where it was built on a musket body but featured a five shot internal magazine, then by the turn of the 1900s, it was reformatted to feature the detachable 6 round box mag. as WWI thundered across the old world, the Enfield finally went into a final evolution that stuck for years to come. a simple, but effective bolt action system with a massive 10 round detachable magazine. Hey, 10 rounds in a bolt rifle was impressive back then, of course, the germans came up with a attachable banana mag to their Mauser rifles that made it a 30 round bolt action rifle; anyways...


power:


The Enfield, being an old war classic, featured a powerful infantry rifle round, the .303 British, which stood neck-n-neck with the other rounds used during the second world war which were mostly .30-06, 8mm mauser, 7.62x54R and the 7.7x58 arisaka.


Now-n-days, like the other rounds, the .303 is now being used a hunting round but still has that old war feel to it when firing it.


so, in terms of fighting specimens the Enfield would be your rifle if money is tight for the bigger toys.

it may have enough punch to take on the scrakes by your self but it'll take you and two others to go mad minute on a fleshpound

to gauge this i would think maybe: medium to high power


speed:

you know, for a bolt action rifle, the Lee Enfield has one of the smoothest cycle action.
i have one, a sport carbine that came off the rack at a pawn shop.

the Enfield has the feature where the bolt pops back when the bolt is opened, it doesn't fight your hand when closing it. so working this action is faster than most world war rifles (or using the modern term, military rifles)


so medium speed?


weight:

like most world war rifles, the Enfield rifles weighs in at around 8 pounds

but that weight, like the other rifles of the time is there to mostly absorb the recoil when that power house bullet is fired.

sadly, this rifle might take up about 4 blocks or so of space in your invintory...


ammo:

holding 10 shots this rifle is unique for being able to be loaded with with five round strip clips or a full 10 round magazine.

the ammo reserve should be at least 9 or 10 "mags" of ammo, instead of making a completely different ammo reserve for one rifle and then the rest have the other one.

1 "mag" of ammo either shows two five round strips being loaded into the rifle or the box mag being replaced with a full one.

specialties:

Since these rifles come in so many models, there should be one variant for each of the perks:

medic, custom Mk5 jungle carbine with an alt fire that shoots a dart

Support specialist, a mk 3 rifle shooting a simple buckshot round (410)

sharpshooter, the simpler one of the six, the sniper variant with a different reload: replaces the box mag to reload instead of using the strip clips

Commando, this rifle, a mk 3 maybe? the alt fire for this variant "volley fires" with a changed hand style; shooting with the middle finger while holding the bolt with index and thumb.

berserker, bayonet attached

firebug, same as the support specialist but this one fires a 410 dragon's breath round for an alt fire

demolitions, a enfield rifle set up with the rifle grenade launcher, might need to keep another gun handy as this rifle will only shoot grenades; unlike cod world at war where you can somehow shoot a rifle with the grenade launcher attachment with out breaking it or switching out the ammo...

 

[H.G.N.]

(ahem) since my wife's laptop derped on me and posted a half finished post about the enfield...


I'll do another gun while I wait for the approvals to go through...




so A commando class gun would have to be the Russian PPSH41




The Burp gun was born for war, chambered in the 7.62x25 pistol round it is famous for seeing action in just about every war on all sides from WWII onward. This medium sized sub machine gun is remembered with a red wood stock, a stamped steel barrel cover and most of all that 71 round drum that made this gun a favorite Sub gun in the war, with the Thompson being second and the mp40 being last.


Power:


the 7.62x25 pistol round is the Russian bastard child of the .30 Mauser Automatic (AKA 7.63x25). With less recoil but matching power, this pistol round, like most pistol rounds, was incorporated into a sub machine gun.


in this case, the little monsters known as the PPSH 41 and the PPSH 43.


Bringing one of these to the fight against horizon's BOWs (yes I went there); the PPSH would be a close quarters power house.


so medium power maybe?


Speed:


The PPSH rocked the Germans (and Americans in Korea and nam) at roughly 1,000 RPM.


This gun would have an higher speed in terms of KF stats.


Only problem would be, it would be a nightmare to handle it while bursting or going full auto unless using the Commando perk.


You can hold a hallway down with just one of these guns as it'll chew through maybe lower to middle class specimens.


so... medium to high speed




Range:


lol, what range?


the only weakness is that this Sub gun would not be able to reach out and touch someone due to its small body/barrel but if shot in small bursts or single shot you can reach out at around 820 ft.


not bad for a sub gun honestly, but not great when trying to hold them at a distance.


so maybe it'll be recommend for marksmen to keep this as a back up encase they get to close or they come out of the wood work.




weight:


sadly, this gun weighs in at around 8 pounds empty, so in terms of KF, maybe four or so blocks.




ammo:


Commonsense would dictate that the PPSH 41 would be complete with it's trademark 71 round drum mag.


sure it sits awkward when holding it, but those rounds would be perfect when taking on the bigger specimens. like say...when a fleshpound charges at you?


however, since these drums would be heavy you would only be able to carry maybe two or three extra drums in a fight.




so...in a nut shell-


pros:


high ammo cap


high rate of fire


decent power


cons:


weight


ammo reserve


short range


and lack of burst control (with out commando perk)