Goodbye MP40

[Gudenrath]

The MKB42 started production around November, and had less than 500 made by the time the Germans surrendered at Stalingrad, with the earlist combat reports coming in at around May of 1943.

The MP40/II according to what you gave was in production before the German summer offensive, as such would of had "large" numbers available by the start of November of 1942, By mid November the Germans had been encircled and the only way to resupply them was by Air...

Where do you get the "large numbers" from? I have seen nothing but claims that this was produced in very few or limited numbers.

It seems that it is about equally unlikely that either of the weapon types saw action in Stalingrad. Which of course doesn't make them less silly.

Though on the other hand with it one can easily do maps set in mid 1943... After all why dose the map makers have to be stuck in late 1942?

I agree. Limiting the setting to a 1942 scenario was not a very good decision by TWI imo, especially not since they apparently was very keen on implementing these experimental types of weapons. They would have been a lot easier to explain in a 1942-45 setting. Also having a basic game embracing the whole war made it a lot easier to make what in RO1 seemed an almost unlimited range of scenarios, in all kind of settings on the Eastern Front.

I have the "upgraded" MP 40 unlocked since ages...dunno the intend of the OP and keep on using the bolt as main weapon.

ermm it looks almost the same than the normal one despite the dual mag, and those are practical. And as for unrealistic...we have russkis spawn with MG34 and such..meh

I do intend to stick to the rifles, especially since I have become so trained with them that I can easily get top 1 on kills (and team points) on close combat maps like Grain Elevator and Apartments. And I do love them bayo runs.

I also think that the MP40 II is indeed very ugly as compared to the slim and wellproportioned simplistic lines of the vanilla gun. Also regarding the enemy loadouts, well two wrongs doesn't make a right, and if you have been following the forum you can see that I have been voicing my dislike of them as well.

 

[Nikita]

untill he has some facts Ill stick to my opinion that mp40 does more damage than ppsh. Btw Im fairly certain that 1 hit in the stomach or chest with mp40 is a kill. ppsh , not so sure..

Those are facts--pulled directly from the game files. To be sure though, I haven't verified them myself yet.

I have also independently done testing and found that the PPSh and MP40 both require a mean of 2 non-insta-kill torso hits per kill.

 

[mrPuma]

Those are facts--pulled directly from the game files. To be sure though, I haven't verified them myself yet.

I have also independently done testing and found that the PPSh and MP40 both require a mean of 2 non-insta-kill torso hits per kill.

ah ok thanks for info

 

[Eug_C]

The MP40 is a quite accurate weapon.

130 yards, however, is stretching it for the round. A Glock 17 only has a muzzle velocity 5 m/s slower than that of an MP40. My family was shooting our Glock at 100 yards for the heck of it on New Year's Eve, and you could see the round at the end of its flight through the spotter's scope visibly tumbling through the air and hitting the backstop. Since the MP40 has far better sights than any pistol, you can probably hit a torso-sized piece of paper at 130m (not yards) with an MP40, but some amount of luck will come into it.

Penetration of walls should definitely not be possible at 100 yards plus.

Personally, I agree that it's the quick ADS and sway that need changing for the most part. A little more recoil on full auto would feel more right to me, but others have disagreed with me there, so that's perhaps more subjective. It's my opinion though that the most realistic-feeling MP40 recoil on full auto in iron sights lies between the current RO2 model and the old Ostfront one. It's accuracy, recoil in hipfire, etc... are fine.

gee! so much talk about the mp40 here.

i do agree that it's quite a lethal weapon in RO2. it's lethal not for the accuracy. but because most, if not all maps in RO2 is as good as CQB.
you get lots of rounds, it has controllable recoil, and more rounds, more chances of hitting your target.

i've never fired the mp40. but i've done 9mm and the recoil of 9mm is puny. put that on a SMG(mp40), give it a stock, fore grip(magazine), it is a pretty damn controllable weapon.

this, i have to say, RO2(maybe accidently) realistically modeled the SMG's effectiveness in close quarters.

Nikita, how on earth did you see bullets tumbling in flight!!
i know you can see flight and air twirling, but at 100m?? and yet see the projectile tumbling??

either ways, fire in short burst, and you can easily hit figure 12s at 100m with the mp40. (go youtube it)

 

[Eug_C]

DiD I read that post correctly?
You want a Cone of Fire. What are you smoking there Floyd.
The thing that seperates RO from the other crap shooters (True bullet ballistices).
The bullet goes where the barrel is aimed. I qualified for marksmen every year I was in the military. Been around firearms all my life.

I too would aim for the Bullseye but if the bullet would land outside the
eye, it was obviously my fault. If it hit the eye that to was my fault.

Spin Drift/Bullet Drop/Round Tumble(when effected range is passed),etc,,
This is the only cone of fire in real life,,~100-200 yrds+ depending on the rifle/smg,,,

Sure some of the firearms needs to be tweaked a little(mp40) etc,,
I also would welcome the choice of what upgrade to choose from.
Befor I entered the fray,,,

Just my .02 worth,,,

mtnman, i believe floyd has already explained his idea of cone of fire.

as you've mentioned, spin drift, etc.. they can be modeled via cone of fire in game. certainly not bullet drop though. that falls under ballistics?
also, your projectile affects your precision.
your barrel does.
your bullet seating depth does. your load of powder does. your primer.. temperature.. so forth.

to summarise all the above, if you clamp down any rifle, pull the trigger mechanically, assuming all factors are kept constant, your round still won't hit at the precise same X and Y axis.

the army doesn't teach you a lot i know. i didn't know all these when i was serving. qualifying for marksman in the army is a piece of cake

they don't give a crap about grouping

 

[Nikita]

i do agree that it's quite a lethal weapon in RO2. it's lethal not for the accuracy. but because most, if not all maps in RO2 is as good as CQB.
you get lots of rounds, it has controllable recoil, and more rounds, more chances of hitting your target.

i've never fired the mp40. but i've done 9mm and the recoil of 9mm is puny. put that on a SMG(mp40), give it a stock, fore grip(magazine), it is a pretty damn controllable weapon.

this, i have to say, RO2(maybe accidently) realistically modeled the SMG's effectiveness in close quarters.

Nikita, how on earth did you see bullets tumbling in flight!!
i know you can see flight and air twirling, but at 100m?? and yet see the projectile tumbling??

either ways, fire in short burst, and you can easily hit figure 12s at 100m with the mp40. (go youtube it)

To tell the truth, what I saw was a visible flashing as the bullet caught the light, then it turning dull, then it flashing again, which I interpreted as some sort of destabilization or tumbling. No way of knowing for sure at that distance, even with my uncle's 18x spotting scope (how we could see them in the first place), what exactly it was doing.

As far as contollability goes, the current MP40 kicks very 'gently', almost like a truck driving on a gravel road. The barrel is barely displaced. It's fairly subjective, but I feel that as you level up further, the recoil starts feeling decidedly puny. Especially for the MP40/II, which has even less recoil due to the stat boosts and heftier weight (with no increase in sway), it feels more like .22LR than 9mm in my opinion.

While we're on the topic of the MP40/II--I really think that, after the first magazine is exhausted, the player should have to press "6" manually to switch to the next magazine. Currently, all they have to do is click again, and the character automatically performs the action. Having to manually switch to the next magazine to shoot the next 32 rounds was a natural weakness of the weapon--one that, if it's staying in-game at all, should be reflected.

 

[Nebfer]

Where do you get the "large numbers" from? I have seen nothing but claims that this was produced in very few or limited numbers.

It seems that it is about equally unlikely that either of the weapon types saw action in Stalingrad. Which of course doesn't make them less silly.

What I meant by larger numbers was in context to the MKB42. Though how small was it's run (MP-40/II)? do you know? 100? 500? 5,000? The point is according to you by November 1942 the MP-40/II had been in production for over six months, which is the month the production of the MKB42 started. As such it was available in Larger numbers compared to the MKB42, even come February 1943.

Now you have to ask your self which is more plausible for a "what if".
A weapon that had been in production for about 5 months by the time the Germans reached Stalingrad (late august). And well before the Germans got encircled allowing for easy access for a small number to be shipped to a unit in the area for testing.

Or a Gun that was only produced for three months before the Germans surrendered at Stalingrad and the only way to get it to them was by air?

Now yes neither of them are very plausible but by far the MP-40/II is far more likely to have occurred of the two.

I agree. Limiting the setting to a 1942 scenario was not a very good decision by TWI imo, especially not since they apparently was very keen on implementing these experimental types of weapons. They would have been a lot easier to explain in a 1942-45 setting. Also having a basic game embracing the whole war made it a lot easier to make what in RO1 seemed an almost unlimited range of scenarios, in all kind of settings on the Eastern Front.

Actually I think Stalingrad was a decent choice but with some of the weapons choices they could of easily done it's immediate aftermath as well... You know Stalingrad to Kursk...

 

[Eug_C]

To tell the truth, what I saw was a visible flashing as the bullet caught the light, then it turning dull, then it flashing again, which I interpreted as some sort of destabilization or tumbling. No way of knowing for sure at that distance, even with my uncle's 18x spotting scope (how we could see them in the first place), what exactly it was doing.

As far as contollability goes, the current MP40 kicks very 'gently', almost like a truck driving on a gravel road. The barrel is barely displaced. It's fairly subjective, but I feel that as you level up further, the recoil starts feeling decidedly puny. Especially for the MP40/II, which has even less recoil due to the stat boosts and heftier weight (with no increase in sway), it feels more like .22LR than 9mm in my opinion.

While we're on the topic of the MP40/II--I really think that, after the first magazine is exhausted, the player should have to press "6" manually to switch to the next magazine. Currently, all they have to do is click again, and the character automatically performs the action. Having to manually switch to the next magazine to shoot the next 32 rounds was a natural weakness of the weapon--one that, if it's staying in-game at all, should be reflected.

ah good observation! makes perfect sense. both could be possible, destabilization or tumbling, actually, both. do you hand load your rounds? i'd be quite disturbed if my rounds were tumbling!

yep agree with the extra step to switch mags. i personally switch them before my mag ends though.
i'll game a bit this evening to check out the mp40 again. well the leveling system does reduce recoil and sway. so that may be it.

either ways, the mp40 is sure one hell of a killer weapon in game