Give Medic SMGs

[Blockbot]

what about medics get LMG?

The LMG recharges on the syringe? like 2syringe points = 1 bullet shot with LMG. then we can make custom **** bullets for lmg

 

[Lacedaemonius]

Agree. Medics need some offensive weapons of their own.

Just because the medic isn't an offensive perk doesn't mean it shouldn't have some minor offensive capabilities. Most of the time on suicidal or hoe I feel I would be better serving my team with an offensive perk.

I think we really only need one or two teirs of smgs though. Three could be a bit much, because of the mp7.

No. No they don't. Medics already have armor that can laugh stare fleshpounds in the eye and laugh, speed rivaling that of the berserker (which applies to all weapons, berserk's only applies with melee weapons), and healing abilities which can bring themselves from bleeding knackered to full health in ~5 seconds.

And don't forget the MP7, which makes mincemeat out of anything smaller than a husk. Your "minor offensive capabilities"

Just because you're jealous of your friends getting all the kills doesn't mean you need to ***** and moan on the forums for the medic to get buffed, because he's pretty damn OP already. And I like it that way.



This thread is now 2 years old and I humbly request that an admin lock it before we get a horde of newbie members unwittingly responding to years old posts.

 

[masteriamamind]

Person creates new thread, forums members complain about redundancy.
Person posts in a thread relevant to what they want to comment on, forum members complain about reviving old threads. Damned if you do. Damned if you don't

On topic:
Ivan and Jack Carver made a great WHITELISTED weapon pack which includes the awesome M7A3 medic rifle. The M7A3 with a MK23 makes the medic feel like a bad *** high tech commando! Get it on their web site here:
http://www.ijcdevelopment.de/

 

[Judaeus Apella]

Low Tier:
Glock 18. A pistol modified by Glock that has selective fire just like the bullpup - semi-auto and full auto. It uses an extended 34 round magazine and can fire approximately 1100-1200 rounds per minute (which means the entire pistol would be empty in about 2 seconds). Can possibly be dual-wielded at greatly reduced accuracy. The optional stock should be included to visually differentiate it from the 9mm.

Mid Tier:

Uzi OR MP5. If you've played any First Person Shooters in the last 10 years, you should know what these guns are.

Top Tier:

FN P90. If you've ever watched Stargate SG-1, well, this was the gun used in the later seasons. It's being adopted worldwide and is currently used by forces in the UK.

All of these weapons have small pistol-caliber bullets but a high rate of fire - a distinction that just doesn't yet exist in KF. I think this would be perfect for Medic.

Post your thoughts.

Glock 18? Seriously? No, I don't like that. That's not even an SMG, that's a machine pistol and so is an Uzi.

A better tier one would be the older MP5. Its outdated, its been around for fifty years and its a very common and cheap weapon.

The HK UMP45 would be a better choice for Tier 2. Its more modern slightly more expensive, and fires a much heavier .45 ACP round, and it can mount four picatinny rails, meaning its compatible with a huge list of attachments including reflex sites and the awesome ISM-V.

I will agree with the P90 as the third Tier.

Top Tier:

FN P90. If you've ever watched Stargate SG-1, well, this was the gun used in the later seasons. It's being adopted worldwide and is currently used by forces in the UK.

All of these weapons have small pistol-caliber bullets but a high rate of fire - a distinction that just doesn't yet exist in KF. I think this would be perfect for Medic.

Post your thoughts.

P90 is a GREAT choice, and I'd love to see that added to this game! Lots of flavors in ammunition including consumer grade hollow point, subsonic, tracer, sporting, lead free, and military grade armor piercing and controlled fragmentation. 5.7x28mm is also more accurate than the out dated ancient 9mm rounds, has lower recoil, and has become more affordable since its original release. The P90 has a high 900rpm fire rate which is great for crowd control, the magazines for the P90 are a huge fifty, in semi-automatic the P90 is accurate over moderate distances especially with a scope or reflex site, which reminds me there's a whole slew of attachments for the P90 including lasers, scopes, silencers, reflex sites, flashlights, etc.

Adding the P90 would be a GREAT way to improve the medic.

 

[Formless]

what about medics get LMG?

The LMG recharges on the syringe? like 2syringe points = 1 bullet shot with LMG. then we can make custom **** bullets for lmg

That defeats the point of the Medic's bonus to mobility, as any stationary weapon (e.g. a LMG) would make the Medic stay in one spot.

 

[Nanostrike]

I could see the Medic getting a medic-ized version of the Bullpup. Maybe a "Bullpup PDW" that has worse ranged accuracy, but weighs less, has a faster rate of fire, more stability, and has the medic-dart attachment. The medic would get bonuses with it that would make it more-or-less equal to the Commando's Bullpup (Without the reload-speed bonuses, as that's a Commando thing). The Commando wouldn't get the bonuses with it, making it better for them to stick with their normal bullpup.

 

[Rainydaykid]

Sorry but the P90 uses 5.7 rounds which are slightly larger than the 5.56 rounds. That's right! They're not those little slug shaped bullets you see being used on most smgs and pistols. They also come in lots of flavors for standard fmj, anti-personnel, and armor piercing, and are easier to fire than 9mm rounds (so you can fire faster) and they're more accurate. So the P90 is far more deadly than a lot of people think it is, which is why its my favorite weapon. (That and the FN FiveseveN, which is a pistol that uses the 5.7 ammo instead of the ancient outdated 9mm, meaning it has really BIG clips, lower recoil, better accuracy, and better penetration.) I also thought it worth mentioning that 5.7mm ammunition has actually gone way down in price since these weapons were first made available, meaning that the P90 is not only a great weapon but slightly inexpensive to use.

I totally support the Medic getting the P90. Single fire is great for accuracy at moderate ranges especially with a small scope, it has a very high fire rate for crowd control, the recoil is low, penetration is great against heavier targets, ammo is affordable, there's a whole slew of attachments for it, it has a huge 50 round clip. The P90 is a great choice.

The 5.7 doesn't have the same powder charge as the 5.56, it is actually a lot weaker(5.56 has a case length of 45mm vs 28mm for the 5.7). It was designed for truck drivers, ect, as a better option than a pistol, but handier than a rifle. The round is more like a 7.62 Tokarev than an actual rifle round.

I have been shooting for years, doing weapons research, ect. I can tell you from my knowledge and experience that the P90 is not a great weapon, by any means. The 5.7 round is on par with a .22 magnum, it's only saving grace is the armor penetration, which you can't buy those rounds as a civilian. It is flat shooting and has 40% less recoil than a 9mm, though. As for the handgun, I'd rather have a Glock 19. It is a lot more durable and reliable, and with 9mm hollowpoints, not bad either.

Basically, the point of it is, if you are shooting people wearing body armor, penetration with a 5.7 is better than no penetration with a 9mm. Pretty much, it will defeat armor that will stop handgun rounds. It is also more accurate than a pistol. It is nowhere near the effectiveness of a rifle, though. It basically does what it was made for, be a compromise between a pistol and a rifle, with armor penetration capability.

As for it being in killing floor, where it doesn't have to be realistic, that would be fine.

 

[Judaeus Apella]

I made that error and realized it but the post never showed up, so I posted again and left that out. Holy crap the staff is lazy here!!!! I posted that first post several days ago and I didn't even see it till today. I had the same problem in the shotgun thread! (I deleted that reply when it finally showed up)

 

[Dipsh]

Person creates new thread, forums members complain about redundancy.
Person posts in a thread relevant to what they want to comment on, forum members complain about reviving old threads. Damned if you do. Damned if you don't

On topic:
Ivan and Jack Carver made a great WHITELISTED weapon pack which includes the awesome M7A3 medic rifle. The M7A3 with a MK23 makes the medic feel like a bad *** high tech commando! Get it on their web site here:
[url]http://www.ijcdevelopment.de/[/URL]

Yea you guys have to at least TRY this mod. I thought i was in heaven the first time i tried the new medic gun. And dont get me started with the sniper. (m99?)

 

[CandleJack]

On top of that, both the 5.7x28mm and 5.56x45mm are 5.7mm in diameter; the 5.56mm refers to the rifling in the barrel. And if you want to get into the imperial system, they're also both .224 in diameter.

And a picture of 5.7x28mm compared to 5.56x45mm:

Spoiler!

The above picture should help create some idea of the power it has, considering the ingame L22 (Bullpup) shoots the larger round and the P90 shoots the smaller one.

The P90 (and other PDWs) are intended for non-frontline soldiers, and in that role works well.

 

[noupperlobeman]

No. No they don't. Medics already have armor that can laugh stare fleshpounds in the eye and laugh, speed rivaling that of the berserker (which applies to all weapons, berserk's only applies with melee weapons), and healing abilities which can bring themselves from bleeding knackered to full health in ~5 seconds.

And don't forget the MP7, which makes mincemeat out of anything smaller than a husk. Your "minor offensive capabilities"

Just because you're jealous of your friends getting all the kills doesn't mean you need to ***** and moan on the forums for the medic to get buffed, because he's pretty damn OP already. And I like it that way.



This thread is now 2 years old and I humbly request that an admin lock it before we get a horde of newbie members unwittingly responding to years old posts.

You make nice assumptions, but not any convincing arguments. I also never *****ed and moaned about anything.

My opinion. Just because you like yours more doesn't mean yours is right and mine is wrong.

Keep being a snarky forum nazi and trampling on other people's posts just because you don't agree with them. I'm sure it'll take you far.

That's a cool signature by the way. It says a lot about your personality.

Oh, and this:

Person creates new thread, forums members complain about redundancy.
Person posts in a thread relevant to what they want to comment on, forum members complain about reviving old threads. Damned if you do. Damned if you don't

 

[Nanostrike]

The 5.7 doesn't have the same powder charge as the 5.56, it is actually a lot weaker(5.56 has a case length of 45mm vs 28mm for the 5.7). It was designed for truck drivers, ect, as a better option than a pistol, but handier than a rifle. The round is more like a 7.62 Tokarev than an actual rifle round.

...

On top of that, both the 5.7x28mm and 5.56x45mm are 5.7mm in diameter; the 5.56mm refers to the rifling in the barrel. And if you want to get into the imperial system, they're also both .224 in diameter.
...

No offense...but what does all this gun-junkey jargon and debate have to do with anything?

 

[CandleJack]

No offense...but what does all this gun-junkey jargon and debate have to do with anything?

Debating what kind of damage a P90 would do, i'm guessing.

Have a look at the picture too.

On the left is 5.7x28mm and on the right is 5.56x45mm

P90s fire the left, Bullpups (L22s) fire the right.

 

[Judaeus Apella]

You have to take into account what kind of ammunition the dev team decides to use for the P90... if they add it. You can't use sporting rounds if you're going to go up against a Fleshpounder. You need either hollow point or military grade controlled fragmentation. If they use the wrong kind of ammo, the gun will be junk when up against heavier enemies... when in truth it could be a hell of a lot better and more worth the money you pay for it if they use the correct ammunition. All they'd need to do is take five minutes to speed read through the wiki page on 5.7x28mm ammo.

I also want to mention the UMP45 again. This is a great weapon, that is very worthy of this game as a tier 2 weapon. 10 rounds per second of 45 ACP hollow point is just a nasty way to go. Its very close to Tier 3 but the P90 has a few advantages over the UMP45. Again, I really think the UMP is an excellent choice for a tier two weapon.

Someone I was talking to last night was surprised I thought that the MP5 was only a tier two weapon. Well the gun is about 50 years old, uses a round that isn't that great or has much stopping power (not much different than the stock pistols), there's literally crates full of the things in military store houses, the black market, etc. They're everywhere and in every country, so they're cheap and easy to get. So yeah, in my opinion its definitely a tier 1 weapon. I remember reading they cost about 14% less than the UMP45 (about $1k each)... so I guess the price would have to be adjusted a bit?

 

[CandleJack]

Someone I was talking to last night was surprised I thought that the MP5 was only a tier two weapon. Well the gun is about 50 years old, uses a round that isn't that great or has much stopping power (not much different than the stock pistols), there's literally crates full of the things in military store houses, the black market, etc. They're everywhere and in every country, so they're cheap and easy to get. So yeah, in my opinion its definitely a tier 1 weapon. I remember reading they cost about 14% less than the UMP45 (about $1k each)... so I guess the price would have to be adjusted a bit?

9x19mm is perfectly fine for every job, and is in many respects better than 11.43x23mm, the round used in the M1911, H&K USP and Mk23, and countless others.
Hollow-point rounds mean that the bullet expands upon impact, causing a 9mm hole to turn into a far larger hole at the back of the target.
And with 9mm you can carry more ammo per magazine, and more magazines due to the smaller size.

 

[Rhenna]

WARNING! GUN TALK AHEAD!

On top of that, both the 5.7x28mm and 5.56x45mm are 5.7mm in diameter; the 5.56mm refers to the rifling in the barrel. And if you want to get into the imperial system, they're also both .224 in diameter.

And a picture of 5.7x28mm compared to 5.56x45mm:

Spoiler!

The above picture should help create some idea of the power it has, considering the ingame L22 (Bullpup) shoots the larger round and the P90 shoots the smaller one.

The P90 (and other PDWs) are intended for non-frontline soldiers, and in that role works well.

As we have discussed in the past, the Bullpup is *supposed* to be using the 5.56x45mm, but ANY reasonable examination of the per shot "power" numbers will clearly indicate that there is absolutely NO relationship of those values to the round allegedly being used. The Bullpup *is* the community's SMG, and a marginal one at that, given that the 9mm pistol is slightly beefier, power-wise, on a per shot basis. Using the 9mm value as a baseline, the 5.56mm would absolutely SMOKE that pistol-class round regardless of what firearm either was fired from. In KF, the Bullpup is just masquerading as a assault rifle.

Regarding the 5.7x28mm...
Being an owner of a S&W .22 Magnum revolver, and having an opportunity to run 100 rounds of 5.7x28mm through a FN Five-Seven pistol, (at a cost of $68.50 USD!), I can attest that the 5.7 dwarfs the .22 Magnum across the board.

Finally,

9x19mm is perfectly fine for every job, and is in many respects better than 11.43x23mm, the round used in the M1911, H&K USP and Mk23, and countless others.
Hollow-point rounds mean that the bullet expands upon impact, causing a 9mm hole to turn into a far larger hole at the back of the target.
And with 9mm you can carry more ammo per magazine, and more magazines due to the smaller size.

...all I can say is that given the choice between the two, I'd never opt for the 9mm over the .45; all the "trick bullet" hijinx the 9mm relies on, (almost all of which isn't applicable to military ammunition), the .45 can do, too. But, if that voodoo doesn't work as designed, (and, that does happen), the .45 is *always* bigger and heavier. Your point on magazine capacity is perfectly valid, but I was taught to shoot not on the "how many" concept, but rather, the "where you place them" method. There are reasons why the .45ACP round endures, and the popularity of rounds like the .40 S&W (10x22mm) grow.

 

[CandleJack]

WARNING! GUN TALK AHEAD!



As we have discussed in the past, the Bullpup is *supposed* to be using the 5.56x45mm, but ANY reasonable examination of the per shot "power" numbers will clearly indicate that there is absolutely NO relationship of those values to the round allegedly being used. The Bullpup *is* the community's SMG, and a marginal one at that, given that the 9mm pistol is slightly beefier, power-wise, on a per shot basis. Using the 9mm value as a baseline, the 5.56mm would absolutely SMOKE that pistol-class round regardless of what firearm either was fired from. In KF, the Bullpup is just masquerading as a assault rifle.

Regarding the 5.7x28mm...
Being an owner of a S&W .22 Magnum revolver, and having an opportunity to run 100 rounds of 5.7x28mm through a FN Five-Seven pistol, (at a cost of $68.50 USD!), I can attest that the 5.7 dwarfs the .22 Magnum across the board.

Finally,



...all I can say is that given the choice between the two, I'd never opt for the 9mm over the .45; all the "trick bullet" hijinx the 9mm relies on, (almost all of which isn't applicable to military ammunition), the .45 can do, too. But, if that voodoo doesn't work as designed, (and, that does happen), the .45 is *always* bigger and heavier. Your point on magazine capacity is perfectly valid, but I was taught to shoot not on the "how many" concept, but rather, the "where you place them" method. There are reasons why the .45ACP round endures, and the popularity of rounds like the .40 S&W (10x22mm) grow.

You can place more rounds with 9mm than 11.43mm

And while it is a bigger round, it means that there's more recoil, and while any experienced shooter can handle 11.43mm, the lower recoil on 9mm means you can put out more rounds faster, and since you're a good shot they're hopefully being put in the right place.

But with KF, where reality goes off and takes a few hits of dope, his bro imagination takes the wheel.


So, what were we talking about

 

[Rainydaykid]

Regarding the 5.7x28mm...
Being an owner of a S&W .22 Magnum revolver, and having an opportunity to run 100 rounds of 5.7x28mm through a FN Five-Seven pistol, (at a cost of $68.50 USD!), I can attest that the 5.7 dwarfs the .22 Magnum across the board.


Not really. The .22 WRM out of a rifle barrel is ballistically similar to the 5.7 out of a 10" barrel. They are similar, not exact, but I wouldn't call it dwarfing, by any means. To split hairs, the 5.7 is more powerful, but not by a massive margin. Obviously, the 5.7 is better at armor penetration, which is what it was designed for.

Finally,



...all I can say is that given the choice between the two, I'd never opt for the 9mm over the .45; all the "trick bullet" hijinx the 9mm relies on, (almost all of which isn't applicable to military ammunition), the .45 can do, too. But, if that voodoo doesn't work as designed, (and, that does happen), the .45 is *always* bigger and heavier. Your point on magazine capacity is perfectly valid, but I was taught to shoot not on the "how many" concept, but rather, the "where you place them" method. There are reasons why the .45ACP round endures, and the popularity of rounds like the .40 S&W (10x22mm) grow.

I was trained that shot placement matters more than caliber. The "how many" is irrelevant, as with any caliber, I am going to keep shooting until the threat is neutralized. The .45 isn't a magic bullet, and all handgun rounds are marginal stoppers. I'd opt for 9mm over .45 for the fact that the ammo is lighter, I have more of it, less bullet drop, and importantly, less recoil. Faster followup shots matter, you will be shooting someone more than once.

In actual shootings, and statements from doctors and coroners, most all of them stated that they couldn't even tell what the victim was shot with until they dug the bullet out. On paper, the .45 is better, but for all practical purposes, you aren't likely to see a massive difference between 2 of any of those rounds center mass, in overall effectiveness.

Hollowpoints are not "trick bullets". It is simple physics. The reason the 9mm is "weak" is overpenetration. The hollowpoint causes a larger wound channel, and allows the bullet to dump all its energy into the target. To overcome the "problems" with military ball, you practice 2 in the chest, 1 in the head anyways. I would do that with any handgun caliber, ball or hollowpoint.

I had a .40, but got rid of it because the snappy recoil was annoying, with carry ammo.

Replies in bold.

 

[dogbadger]

This thread is now 2 years old and I humbly request that an admin lock it before we get a horde of newbie members unwittingly responding to years old posts.

or an idiot like me reading throu it thinking ' whats wrong with the mp7 ffs' before realising the date.

 

[Overlord Headshot]

First of all, THE MP7 and the MP5 are basically SMG's, search it up bud. They were both invented by Hechler & Koch, German submachine gun.
MP7-> BACKUP PROOF RIGHT HERE -> [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_MP7[/URL]
MP5 -> BACKUP PROOF RIGHT HERE ->[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_MP5[/URL]

MP stands for Machine Pistol.
MP5 is a 9mm submachine gun that is widely used.
MP7 has a 4.6x30mm cartidge.
Thus the reason why they are such lightweight, not to mention, it's called combo'ing. Learn to use different weapons to backup your perk. Most people use a handcannon almost all the time with different perks. Medics can use different weapons thanks to credibility of how small weighted the MP's are. Averagely, I use an AA12 or a M79 Grenade Launcher -Possibly bad combo, but it's good in my hands-