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Heilkraut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 18, 2011
76
11
0
The Reich
i see moving bushes and morphing objects everywhere (hate that :mad:)

does anyone know the UT3 variable to change this aggressive LOD? :confused:
 

5thSSDW.KGW~CO

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 19, 2011
256
346
0
So let me get this straight...I think I'm hidden behind something, but an enemy player looking towards me from over a certain distance can SEE me?!
 

Heilkraut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 18, 2011
76
11
0
The Reich
no, i think there is a detection if a player is nearby some objects

but its very confusing when moving and on whole screen is some own movement by popping up objects and morphing objects into higher/lower LOD

i get motion sickness of that and it limits my detection of enemy movement

im aware that the Unreal3 engine needs/has some adjustable LOD but i want to know whats the variables to make the LOD change kick in more far away
 
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Yoshiro

In Soviet Russia, Yoshiro is a cake
Staff member
Oct 10, 2005
12,890
3,864
113
Here is a system usage screenshot of the game running at 30 fps, GPU and CPU usage taken immediately after alt tabing.

Don't tell me this is optimized or maxing out the CPU as that is total bull****.

Tripwire saying this game is CPU heavy is a lie.

Not maximizing the CPU or the GPU and the game is still running like a dog.

Tripwire removing details has not improved my performance. They could make the game look like DOD1 and it will still run at 30 fps as the problem is not the graphics but something choking on their code.

I want my graphics back, the awful blurriness and pop up that is in the game since recent patches is unacceptable and not a fix, The removal of details in maps such as the bricks is not acceptable. Stop pandering to low end systems, their not the problem. The problem is the game running like crap on high end hardware like my Q9650 @4.17ghz and a 5970.


After alt tabbing the game will use less CPU and GPU as it has to reinitialize into windowed mode and redraw everything. This can take it awhile depending on the machine.

The game runs 2 main threads, the game thread and the rendering thread (among several other threads, but for all intensive purposes let us ignore them).

The Game thread will grab one CPU core and eat up as much of it as it can. The Rendering thread will do the same. Now what is happening or most users, is that the rendering thread is pegging out due to the amount of draw calls in any given scene in the game. This will cause the instructions it can send off to the GPU to be slower, and the GPU won't work as effectively because it is waiting for the next set of instructions from the rendering thread.

We are aware of another issue where some high end computers are also seeing a performance issue and we are looking into why this is happening (it is not something we see at the office at all). Once again if you are one of those people, talk to me. I will pay you to ship your computer to me and compensation for time.
 

abjectblitz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 23, 2011
122
37
0
After alt tabbing the game will use less CPU and GPU as it has to reinitialize into windowed mode and redraw everything. This can take it awhile depending on the machine.

The game runs 2 main threads, the game thread and the rendering thread (among several other threads, but for all intensive purposes let us ignore them).

The Game thread will grab one CPU core and eat up as much of it as it can. The Rendering thread will do the same. Now what is happening or most users, is that the rendering thread is pegging out due to the amount of draw calls in any given scene in the game. This will cause the instructions it can send off to the GPU to be slower, and the GPU won't work as effectively because it is waiting for the next set of instructions from the rendering thread.

We are aware of another issue where some high end computers are also seeing a performance issue and we are looking into why this is happening (it is not something we see at the office at all). Once again if you are one of those people, talk to me. I will pay you to ship your computer to me and compensation for time.

That is definitely the last 10-20 seconds of in game full screen gameplay usage in that screenshot. Not a single core is pegged, and neither is the gpu pegged.

If you want I can take another shot with the game running fullscreen and GPU and CPU usage screenshot taken straight of a 2nd screen realtime without alt tabbing. The usage is the same.

I would like to send you my machine for testing but as you guys are in the U.S that is unfeasible but if I could be of any more help in tracking down the performance sapping problem I would love to help.
 
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Stahlhelmii

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 16, 2011
721
401
0
Was Spartanovka reworked? I ask because I just played a game on it, and it now seems as if I've been transported inside of a muted watercolor painting. Fence detail low, everything just looking, well ... whitewashed. I'm guessing this is the case, because my FPS shot up to 50-65 with about 20 players in game.

Only running settings med-high, AA off, shadows low & bloom off, frame lag off, 1920x1080. I've got a i5-650@3.20 GHz, HD 5770, 8 gb ram, 22" widescreen. I've never set ANY single setting to ultra, nor even a majority to high, but it seems to me that I should have been getting a steady 45-50 fps with this hardware at those settings without nerfing the graphics.
 
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Tet5uo

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 13, 2011
115
51
0
We are aware of another issue where some high end computers are also seeing a performance issue and we are looking into why this is happening (it is not something we see at the office at all). Once again if you are one of those people, talk to me. I will pay you to ship your computer to me and compensation for time.

Too bad I don't live closer to you guys at Tripwire, I'd totally bring my PC down to your office to see what's up here.

Shipping seems a bit out of the question, would be hard to FedEx a water-cooled PC from Canada in one piece.



But let me know if there is anything else I can do that might help you guys track down the cause.
 

Yoshiro

In Soviet Russia, Yoshiro is a cake
Staff member
Oct 10, 2005
12,890
3,864
113
That is definitely the last 10-20 seconds of in game full screen gameplay usage in that screenshot. Not a single core is pegged, and neither is the gpu pegged.

If you want I can take another shot with the game running fullscreen and GPU and CPU usage screenshot taken straight of a 2nd screen realtime without alt tabbing. The usage is the same.

I would like to send you my machine for testing but as you guys are in the U.S that is unfeasible but if I could be of any more help in tracking down the performance sapping problem I would love to help.

Then you have exactly the type of computer we need to get our hands on to help determine what is going on.

Was Spartanovka reworked? I ask because I just played a game on it, and it now seems as if I've been transported inside of a muted watercolor painting. Fence detail low, everything just looking, well ... whitewashed. I'm guessing this is the case, because my FPS shot up to 50-65 with about 20 players in game.

Only running settings med-high, AA off, shadows low & bloom off, frame lag off, 1920x1080. I've got a i5-650@3.20 GHz, HD 5770, 8 gb ram, 22" widescreen. I've never set ANY single setting to ultra, nor even a majority to high, but it seems to me that I should have been getting a steady 45-50 fps with this hardware at those settings without nerfing the graphics.

It wasn't changed in the slightest...

Too bad I don't live closer to you guys at Tripwire, I'd totally bring my PC down to your office to see what's up here.

Shipping seems a bit out of the question, would be hard to FedEx a water-cooled PC from Canada in one piece.



But let me know if there is anything else I can do that might help you guys track down the cause.

Sadly we really need hands on time with a machine like this. We need to monitor it closely and installs some proprietary software we can't release outside of the office to help with that.
 

Stahlhelmii

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 16, 2011
721
401
0
Thanks, Yoshi. Very odd. I'd better check my settings and see that something didn't somehow get set to low without my realizing it. :)
 

Tet5uo

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 13, 2011
115
51
0
...we really need hands on time with a machine like this. We need to monitor it closely and installs some proprietary software we can't release outside of the office to help with that...


Well, don't hesitate to ask if you do need me to try something. I'd love to see this game playable.
 

abjectblitz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 23, 2011
122
37
0
I also found Spartanovka to look worse, seems the LOD, Occlusion and texture streaming is much more aggressive than it used to be.
 

kalle

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 19, 2006
246
28
0
i see moving bushes and morphing objects everywhere (hate that :mad:)

does anyone know the UT3 variable to change this aggressive LOD? :confused:

This! Please if anyone has any info on this. I did manage to reduce the agressive texture LOD with some ini tweaking but models are still morphing everywhere. Here's what I did to reduce the texture swapping for anyone who like to try:

in ROEngine:
poolSize = 400 (half of your texture memory as recomended in the tweak guide)

replaced all LODBias=0 to LODBias=-2 (except SkeletalMeshLODBias and
ParticleLODBias). I'm not totally sure how this affects the game.

on the TextureGroups replaced MinLODSize=1,MaxLODSize=4096 to MinLODSize=512,MaxLODSize=2048 (yes I acctually lowered the max texture resoloution, that means that the game won't run out of texture memory as fast. sure, textures aren't as sharp when you stick your nose to the wall but it's worth it IMO). When I load a new map I still see the super blurry textures, but when they are loaded once I never get to see the the lowres ones again.

Now if I could just remove the object morphing / swapping ...
 
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Heilkraut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 18, 2011
76
11
0
The Reich
FoliageDrawRadiusMultiplier=2.0 (or more) reduce definitely popping up bushes (2 times in config)

furthermore i changed 2 times MeshLODRange=200000 (from zero) and
MaxStaticMeshComponents=20000 (from 100)

im not sure about the mesh stuff (may be placebo cos i still have these annoying aggressive LOD of the waggons on station map) but i think it changes something too
 

[TW]Leland Scali

Tripwire Interactive Staff
Mar 23, 2009
10
28
0
Hi

Hi

I see that my post from last night has been seen here and there is still some comments that need addressed.

On the cpu bound issue - Yes some computers will not be cpu bound in fact it's looking like amd cpu's have more issues with the draw calls than intel machines.
What's happening is in unreal3 if you see an object, before it can go to your gpu to render the cpu tells it that you saw it in the first place. So as I stated before your cpu could be telling your gpu to render 4,000 plus objects every frame, and that was just the map. If you factor 64 players all with multiple draw calls each, add in tanks also with calls, add in arty explosions,grenade explosions,bullet shell ejects pouring out of your gun and all other guns around you..add yet even more with hit decals and the associated particle effects from your own gun and those around you, muzzle flashes... you enter a world where your cpu is telling your gpu to render closer to 7k worth of objects every frame this is where things get crazy for a lot of players. Those are just the visual things in the game on top of that your cpu is still calculating loads of game based data. So these are the things we are trying to optimize.

On the blurry textures thing - Nothing has changed with textures I've been reading that a lot from players and reviewers. So i'm going to explain it a bit, the way our texture detail slider works is if you have ultra textures set your are seeing the full res of all the textures in the game. if you set it to high it globally cut's almost all textures to half (2048x2048 to 1024x1024) and every detail step you go down it does it again until your looking at 256x256 textures everywhere. this is something I can personally tweak with time by making sure that certain textures in the game will never be able to go that low. But keep in mind that this is a memory issue and it's so medium can fit within 2gigs of ram. So if you have a great video card and a ton of ram crank up the texture slider. If your cpu bound turn world detail to low and textures to ultra that will make nice crisp textures and less overall small detail in the maps. Play with the settings, most pc's have very mixed hardware and you can play well without having to play on what it defaults you to.(shadows are still a killer ;))

on the lod transitions, I'll ask around about trying to add a slider that reverses the lod distances for high end pc's, but keep in mind this is not a simple job and right now we need to make sure people aren't having major issues anymore before we risk changing something that is stable (the settings menu's). In a lot of games I've noticed the habbit of drenching the battle field with particle effects to cut the visable space into sections, most likely this is so they can cull out all objects beyond that until the player gets close enough, that's a good way to pull it off.. but I'm guessing you won't see those games with threads boasting of a 300+ meter kill becuase the visable area isn't that far to begin with. We are using an engine made for corridor shooters (gears) And we are pushing it to it's breaking point, we did the same thing to unreal2 when RO 1 came out and eventually it all leveled out.

So I hope this clears up any questions and all I ask is just be patient. we really can't work any faster, and certain things will take priority over visual issues.

Thanks:)

oh yeah and if your interested in your pc's bottleneck type stat unit in the console this will show you what your computer is hanging on. if your game or draw threads are the highest that means your cpu bound and if the gpu is the highest that's your pc's bottleneck. (keep in mind all console stat commands add a slight performance hit so for regular play having multiple commands up are costing cpu cycles to update the data).So when you play turn off the stat's, that's my biggest immersion killer:D
 

Gaizokubanou

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 5, 2011
525
76
0
Well, don't hesitate to ask if you do need me to try something. I'd love to see this game playable.

I second this. Shipping my PC is bit out of question, but whatever logs you need or programs I need to run, I'll give it a shot as long as it's not straight up malicious like trojan software lol

Now what is happening or most users, is that the rendering thread is pegging out due to the amount of draw calls in any given scene in the game. This will cause the instructions it can send off to the GPU to be slower, and the GPU won't work as effectively because it is waiting for the next set of instructions from the rendering thread.

Wasn't the occlusion level on the option suppose to take care of this? Because right now I don't think that particular option in the video menu even works.
 
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abjectblitz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 23, 2011
122
37
0
Changed these settings:

poolSize=512

replaced all LODBias=0 to LODBias=-2 (except SkeletalMeshLODBias and
ParticleLODBias).

replaced all TextureGroups MinLODSize=1,MaxLODSize=4096 to MinLODSize=512,MaxLODSize=4096 LODBias=-2

And the game looks BEAUTIFUL again like it did back in the Bata. Everything is razor sharp again. :D
 
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Gaizokubanou

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 5, 2011
525
76
0
Changed these settings:

poolSize=512

replaced all LODBias=0 to LODBias=-2 (except SkeletalMeshLODBias and
ParticleLODBias).

replaced all TextureGroups MinLODSize=1,MaxLODSize=4096 to MinLODSize=512,MaxLODSize=4096 LODBias=-2

And the game looks BEAUTIFUL again like it did back in the Bata. Everything is razor sharp again. :D

This reduces texture pops up by. And since my GPU wasn't really used to full it's not like it's taxing on performance anyway so I recommend this tweak for less popups!
 

abjectblitz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 23, 2011
122
37
0
Changed these settings:

poolSize=512

replaced all LODBias=0 to LODBias=-2 (except SkeletalMeshLODBias and
ParticleLODBias).

replaced all TextureGroups MinLODSize=1,MaxLODSize=4096 to MinLODSize=512,MaxLODSize=4096 LODBias=-2

And the game looks BEAUTIFUL again like it did back in the Bata. Everything is razor sharp again. :D

Forgot to add , I also did this one FoliageDrawRadiusMultiplier=2.0
 
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Gaizokubanou

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 5, 2011
525
76
0
oh yeah and if your interested in your pc's bottleneck type stat unit in the console this will show you what your computer is hanging on. if your game or draw threads are the highest that means your cpu bound and if the gpu is the highest that's your pc's bottleneck. (keep in mind all console stat commands add a slight performance hit so for regular play having multiple commands up are costing cpu cycles to update the data).So when you play turn off the stat's, that's my biggest immersion killer:D

Ok here are my numbers.

Frame: 15.5 ~ 26ms
Game: 8 ~ 9.5ms
Draw: 2 ~ 14ms
GPU: 20 ~ 29ms

Everything except shadow on ultra, shadow on high. 64 players, Barracks territory game.

Game ran ok, but not steady 60fps as I dip to 40 when I am not in a small corridor.

GPU useage on my SLI setup never went above 66% for 1st card and 70% for second card, with fluctation between 40 ~ 65% for the most part.

If I turn off SLI, then I would get 80 ~ 95% GPU useage but that gives me about the same performance overall :(
 

Dirtybandit

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 4, 2011
319
122
0
Why do you guys keep making up excuses for our pc running poorly, Its not our fault our pcs go way above recommended specs yet still run like ****. You coded the game, its your fault (also so far these "optimizations" have not made my game run any better or worse)
 
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