Tactics Get in the cap zone!

[DingBat]

Ok, so I was playing in a round on Basovka last night as the german sniper. Round had just started and I was settling in to my first spot when I was tk'd by a player intent on herding us slow pokes into the cap zone.

Nice.

Now, I've played my fair share of rounds as the soviet squad leader on Konigsberg where I've futilly pleaded with my team mates to move forward. I, also, get a little crazy when I see idiot ppsh gunners lying prone trying to snipe. I get the frustration, I really do.

Did I mention I was the sniper?

I should come totally clean here and say that the guy who did it wasn't a bad sort. I also unintentionally got revenge later by accidentally nading him twice (Ever have a round where, when you do something stupid, it always seems to hit one poor shmuck?). I don't have any hard feelings, I just think things are getting a little out of hand.

Look: not everyone has to rush the objective. In fact, it's probably a bad idea if you do. Machine gunners and snipers are obvious exemptions. SMGers really have no excuse NOT to be in the objective area. Riflemen, on the other hand, are not so easy to sort out.

There is a LOT to be said for riflemen to try to get to flanking positions where they can take enemy reinforcements under fire. It's a lot better to kill a bad guy on the way to a cap zone than to have to kill him in the cap zone. As an extreme example of this, I recently managed over 120 points in a full server round on Konigs as a rifleman with NO caps (I couldn't miss that night). That's not going to happen very often, but when it does, I don't want someone trying to herd me into the cap zone.

Capping is important, no doubt, but being in the cap zone isn't necessarily the best contribution you can make to your team.

 

[melipone]

Depends on the map I think, but as a rule of thumb I think its best to have at least 90% of the players in the cap zone or heading to it. Snipers and MG's can do what they like, but I think most of the riflemen should be going to/camping in a cap zone. On a map like Basovka if you let your team camp with a rifle then you'll never cap IMO. Yes they could get some kills, but they won't compare to actually having an extra man trying to cap and lobbing nades at the enemy every spawn. If your riflemen are really good and get lots of kills then its OK for some of them to sit outside the cap zone I think..its the ones that sit there and don't contribute to the team that annoy me.
​

 

[fiftyone]

I would say that a rifleman has to survey whats going on before moving up to a cap zone, in between a sniper and smg if you like.
I often start as rifleman and then maybe pick up a smg when approaching or capping.

Nothing worse than making good progress into the cap zone and then getting butt smacked while reloading my trustyrustyriffle.

Its a hard game !

 

[Solo4114]

Depends on the situation, too. If NO ONE is going into the cap zone, then we have problems. Odessa is infamous for having people falling back and sniping, rather than charging ahead, or having people on defense outside the cap zones.

Sometimes it's just plain boneheadedness. Other times, it makes sense. The sniper can often be more effective outside the cap zone, but clearing it than getting into the zone. MGers can be more effective flanking and drawing attention and fire of enemy reinforcements before they enter, rather than charging in.

I tend to think, however, that riflemen should default to getting into the cap zone. Not that they don't have a use outside the zone, but often you need them getting in there to shift the balance.


Here's a tip for folks. A rifleman with a carbine (ideally an M44) or a semi-auto rifleman is much more suited to get into the cap zone. The M38 and M44 shoulder faster than the K98 and the 91/30, I find. Not by much, but in a quickdraw contest, you only need a little bit of an edge. So, if you're thinking you want to be confident of being able to rush a zone, take a carbine. You'll still do perfectly well at long range, especially considering that "long" range isn't actually all that far on most infantry maps (IE: usually it's not much more than 400m), at least the official ones.

 

[Mr. Cheese]

@solo - I will not go into the capzone without my lance. M44 doesn't cut it.

 

[SiC-Disaster]

@solo - I will not go into the capzone without my lance. M44 doesn't cut it.

QFT. NO bayonet = no go

 

[Munkie]

Even with a MG or a sniper rifle or if I'm alone, I go cap zones. So riflemen should attack too.

 

[DingBat]

Lol, classic.

 

[Slyk]

There are many maps with one or more cap zones where you just need to get IN the zone, not assault the zone and try to clear it. This bugs the crap out of me as well. If it is obvious that you have the numbers nearby and your arty is interdicting the enemy reinforcements, get your ass in the cap zone EDGE and cap...force the enemy to at least loose one or more spawn waves and allow your team to get some closer up.

Once you cap, you can then clear. It's simple, really.

 

[slyder73]

Ok, so I was playing in a round on Basovka last night as the german sniper. Round had just started and I was settling in to my first spot when I was tk'd by a player intent on herding us slow pokes into the cap zone.

Nice.

Now, I've played my fair share of rounds as the soviet squad leader on Konigsberg where I've futilly pleaded with my team mates to move forward. I, also, get a little crazy when I see idiot ppsh gunners lying prone trying to snipe. I get the frustration, I really do.

Did I mention I was the sniper?

I should come totally clean here and say that the guy who did it wasn't a bad sort. I also unintentionally got revenge later by accidentally nading him twice (Ever have a round where, when you do something stupid, it always seems to hit one poor shmuck?). I don't have any hard feelings, I just think things are getting a little out of hand.

Look: not everyone has to rush the objective. In fact, it's probably a bad idea if you do. Machine gunners and snipers are obvious exemptions. SMGers really have no excuse NOT to be in the objective area. Riflemen, on the other hand, are not so easy to sort out.

There is a LOT to be said for riflemen to try to get to flanking positions where they can take enemy reinforcements under fire. It's a lot better to kill a bad guy on the way to a cap zone than to have to kill him in the cap zone. As an extreme example of this, I recently managed over 120 points in a full server round on Konigs as a rifleman with NO caps (I couldn't miss that night). That's not going to happen very often, but when it does, I don't want someone trying to herd me into the cap zone.

Capping is important, no doubt, but being in the cap zone isn't necessarily the best contribution you can make to your team.

I think the difference between the sniper, SMG, rifle, MG are as recognized as you say, however I disagree in how you have described the importance of them being in the capzone.

Keep in mind the enemy, especially if defending SHOULD have ALL their player or at least almost all of them in the capzone. As the attacker, nearly all the players should be in there. The sniper included. It is better for the sniper to use his pistol to get in there then defend his team from the enemy approaching to stop the cap or retake it.

The same goes with the rifles and MGs. They both have to have a different approach tactic but in the end the only thing that will win the round is having that players physical presence in the capzone. Nothing else matters. If you have a rifle and need to approach slower from cover to cover and with bayonet at the ready as you enter the so be it. But whatever happens DO NOT stop advancing or moving. A static player is a useless player no matter how many enemy he kills if he's on the attacking team.

MG the same. It does not help to "cover" the capzone for your team to get in there because half the time you get unintentional TK's for your trouble and the team needs NOT to be split up, they need the entire force in the capzone. MG'ers should use pistol in hand to get in there safely and only then set up to prevent the enemy from retaking the point or stopping the cap.

Of course, once the cap happens, the ENTIRE team needs to get up and MOVE. Mobility and communication will win the round, not sitting back as a sniper or MG and trying to justify your static position by saying you are killing the enemy or prevenging them from getting to the capzone. You aren't...because unless your body is in that capzone to help or hinder the capping bar from moving left or right you are not helping.

Now you mentioned that capping isn't necessarily the best contribution you can make to your team. That holds true ONLY and ONLY if you are on the attacking team and you have been agressively moving THROUGH the capzone to kill the enemy, drop nades or satchels on the other side of the capzone to stop them from leaving their spawn. Staying back someplace rifling, or sniping does not really help, no matter what people say. As the game goes, it is simple, bodies in capzone win and teams that get split up and do not have the entire group with bodies in capzones lose. Simple as that.

 

[Bat Guano]

I think both DingBat and Slyder make valid points. It's not so clear-cut that you can say the sniper (or MG) should always/never charge into the cap zone. The players in these positions need to assess the situation and act accordingly. This isn't always so easy but it's something a player picks up with experience.

If the rest of the attacking team is aggressively moving forward but is being hampered by an enemy MG or sniper, their sniper can probably help out the most by hanging back and picking off the enemy MG or sniper rather than going into the cap zone himself.

Sometimes though, it' simply a matter of bodies in the cap zone. If the enemy is not inside the cap zone in force - for example, a zone has just become available for capture and the defenders have not had time to set up a defense - a mad rush by any attackers nearby may be called for to quickly take the cap zone and win the round. Another example of when the sniper/MG should assault the cap zone is in cases where defenders are there in force but are not showing their heads - they're primarily defending by numbers in the cap zone. Also, if it's down to the last minute and the final cap zone is at stake, everyone needs to get in there. Snipers and MGs have 'nades too...

 

[Solo4114]

Of course it's situational, but generally speaking, I think the snipers and MGers have far more reason to hang back, with the riflemen being next in line. That's simply a function of how their weapons work, though. Ultimately, the team needs to take the cap zone, and the players have to do their best to make this happen.

Sometimes that means everyone hauls ass in, other times it means the MGer heads off with a rifleman and sets up enfilading fire on the enemy's reinforcements before they get to the cap zone.

 

[sander]

I have once used my ability as a Russian commander to execute everyone who wasn't advancing to the object, and it worked, we won the map (I had a score of -7).

 

[Lowman]

Capzonophobia

Capzonophobia

Flanking the enemy spawn is all good. However, it can be done from inside most cap zones.

Take Odessa, Holding Gretcheskya (I don't pretend to know how to spell it) while going around the appartments to the rear and letting the Ruskies almost HAVE the appartments is a good tactic; they can get into the appartment cap much faster and trying to cap it back is almost suicide unless you can get to the back side and hold them up for a few minutes ... thusly ... outside the cap zone. Similarly; holding the streets that lead to the tower is a lot easier than holding the tower cap zone. Once the Russians get up on that rooftop and into the sandbags on the left it is perty much over. However, the HQ can be held from entirely in the cap.

Take Stalingradkessle, the Germans can hold the Warehouse entirely from inside the cap; Garage 2 can be held by putting an MG in the door leading to the Cap Zone at the top of the stairs ... I have held this position all day ... the MG is in the cap and it is almost impossible to take him out without using a nade or going through the middle of the Warhouse cap (which perty much makes taking the MG out mute anyway). Also, if the squad leader puts smoke on the Russian side of sniper ally they can't take shots at your reinforcements without getting up on the As Hall roof or coming all the way down the ally; the two back entrances to the Warehouse cap can be guarded from inside the cap while the Russian entrances can be likewise guarded on the other side. If a German team plays this correctly, this map can be won without ever leaving the Warehouse cap AT ALL (except maybe for ammo and nades).

With very few exceptions (like the East or West Bridgeheads in Danzig, the Tower in Odessa or the Russian train station in Basovka) snipers do not ever have to enter cap zones ... this defeats their range and leaves them at a close proximity fire-power disadvantage (ever empty a whole pistol clip into a guy just to be shredded by his smg when he dosen't die?)

Riflemen are out gunned by everyone on every map (save tank crewmen) their primary weapon should actually be their nades and bayonets, if a rifleman does his job correctly he should almost never fire his rifle ... he should get nade and bayo kills and cap ZONES.

----Lowman

 

[Vonreuter]

Riflemen are out gunned by everyone on every map (save tank crewmen) their primary weapon should actually be their nades and bayonets, if a rifleman does his job correctly he should almost never fire his rifle ... he should get nade and bayo kills and cap ZONES.

Quoted for untruth. A rifleman should engage and destroy targets at any range by firing his weapon. In CQC accurate hipshots are often much better than bayonet charges, because you can take out your opponent from a distance (depending on your skill).

A true master of the rifle is a versatile killing machine that can engage targets at all ranges. True, that hip shot must hit if you're facing an SMGer at close range, and, yeah, the sniper has an advantage in long-ranges, but you're "just a bolter" and there are thirteen more from where you came from if you fail. But if you keep your wits around you, you can take on anybody (apart from tanks, unless you've found some Satchels or Fausts).

 

[perato]

Actually I got kicked cuz yelling so fuking lot to those scary children behind sandbags. Konigsplats is propably the worst map. Some players are so scared, that when they try to snipe with their ppsh, I have time to cap one zone three times(ofcourse loosing it cuz no one is coming to help me), and during that even run back and forth defending the other cap zone. So what I'm wondering, is that if you scary children could camp IN the capzone, not behind it or somewhere other place. It's so frustrating when no one is helping you(they are under fire bla blla bla), and you can practically run to the cap zone with out getting a scratch.

Same thing in defence, could you defenders defend the cap zone IN THE CAPZONE and not behind it.

Thumb rule is really that you don't have to clear the zone, just stay in there and wait that enemys are popping out from their cover. Then you can shoot 'em and just stay put till the zone is capped.

And I have to thank those few brave souls who has guts to go and defend ruins in Kaukasus, and not stay and give the "coverfire" from the castle. Believe me, when there is only 2 guys rushing the objective, there is no need to 10 guys give a cover fire. MG and sniper can do that.

 

[Lowman]

Quoted for untruth. you can take out your opponent from a distance (depending on your skill).
but you're "just a bolter" and there are thirteen more from where you came from if you fail.

Not to take your quote out of context but the fact that there are "thirteen more from where you came from" means that there are only 3 (sometimes more) other people with different weapons that you are relying on to get in close and CAP THE ZONE. Riflemen make up the bulk of almost every team on every map therefore they must CAP THE CAP ZONE. Skill or no skill your average life span as "just a bolter" should only be about 60 to 90 seconds if you are doing your job correctly (caping is more important than killing). THE GERMANS DIDN'T WHIP THE POLLS IN 2 WEEKS BY SITTING BACK AND BOLTING AT PIXLES! And that was when there really were 100 riflemen for every smg or mg on the field.

It sounds to me like you are more interested in getting kills to flaunt your skills then you are in working with your team to win the game ... there is no shame in dying at close range for the sake of a solid cap. They were called STORM TROOPERS for a reason.

----Lowman

 

[Lowman]

And I have to thank those few brave souls who has guts to go and defend ruins in Kaukasus, and not stay and give the "coverfire" from the castle. Believe me, when there is only 2 guys rushing the objective, there is no need to 10 guys give a cover fire. MG and sniper can do that.

Amen brother ... what are they affraid of? Virtual death? Although I'm sure Vonreuter will find a good way to explain why those rifles should stay in the castle and would be more effective not CAPING THE ZONE!!!!

----Lowman

 

[melipone]

Riflemen are out gunned by everyone on every map (save tank crewmen) their primary weapon should actually be their nades and bayonets, if a rifleman does his job correctly he should almost never fire his rifle ... he should get nade and bayo kills and cap ZONES.
----Lowman

A rifleman should engage and destroy targets at any range by firing his weapon. In CQC accurate hipshots are often much better than bayonet charges, because you can take out your opponent from a distance (depending on your skill).

A true master of the rifle is a versatile killing machine that can engage targets at all ranges. True, that hip shot must hit if you're facing an SMGer at close range, and, yeah, the sniper has an advantage in long-ranges, but you're "just a bolter" and there are thirteen more from where you came from if you fail. But if you keep your wits around you, you can take on anybody (apart from tanks, unless you've found some Satchels or Fausts).

I agree with Vonreuter on this, yeah you should go to the cap zone but don't underestimate the bolt action rifle. Its THE most accurate weapon in the game (cept sniper). Where you click is 99% of the time where the shot lands (and generally kills in 1 shot), so if you have good aim you have a VERY good weapon for most situations. See a defender in the cap zone trying to pick your men off? Just get your sights about where the enemy is (from behind cover) then pop up and kill him virtually instantly, THEN attack the cap zone. You should always be picking people off as you attack a cap zone, but that doesn't mean thats ALL you do. You only stop when you spot an enemy, and then only long enough to kill him with the rifle or lob a nade at him. Then you start moving again.

Once you get in the cap zone it depends on the situation, but generally just keep your head down and wait for your close range chaps to get in. If an smger or semi-auto surprises you and you don't have iron sights up, then you can hip shoot and kill in one shot, wheras a smger that attacks you will likely take a few shots before you go down (but you will get suppressed which makes it harder to aim). After taking one hip shot just charge to one of his sides while ducking to bayo him (force him to have to move his mouse as much as possible by going diagonally towards him and try to be random so he can't guess where to shoot).. dont make it easy for him by just charging straight at him. When you're stabbing always move around him to put him off some more. Thats the worst option unless you are very close to him though, usually its best to dive to cover and rebolt or use a nade. Bayo is best against other bolters and to save ammo if a guy hasn't seen you yet (and just because its funny )

Don't underestimate the bolt at any range and always use your nades before you die. Usually I just lob em at the first decent oportunity to make sure I don't waste em by not using them before I die, and because you don't want to leave any presents behind for the enemy once you do get killed

 

[Vonreuter]

Lowman, as an aggressive rifleman I'm always heading to the cap zone and I can pwn regular pubbers at all ranges: at a distance, when I approach at medium and at close-range. (I'm not bragging, it's a simple fact.) And you can ask the other guys playing Iron Crescendo if they think I'm a bad team player. Most answers should start with an N and end with an O.

I said that riflemen are versatile and effective at any range - how does that imply that the riflemen should stay back with the Festungtruppen? I'm all for attacking with rifles and I consider campign riflemen, well, campers, but your idea that good riflemen should not even fire their weapon is utter cr*p.

I will ignore the insults you hid in your two posts. Throwing such blind accusations is stupid and impolite. Please read my post before drawing your own conclusions.