Germans had LESS MP40s

[greenlemonade]

There were probably not a large amount of MP40s in the battle of Stalingrad compared to the large amount of PPSHs.

Considering there were only 1 million MP40s ever made as opposed to the 6 million PPSHs.
Germany mainly gave the MP40 to Squad and Platoon commanders and paratroopers until after Stalingrad where they fought, that's right, the Soviet PPSH Assault teams.

So historically the Soviet team should have much more Assault squad roles.
I understand that people may not like that, so the poll is a bit more subtle of a suggestion.

 

[Frostedfire]

keep it similar to the historical developments - early-battle maps have less, late-battle maps have more

side-note, I preferred ppsh to be modelled a bit more like the thompsons in dh; standing up was about the same (ie 10m engagements), but I had no problem hosing down a window on full auto if need be

 

[Miro!]

Well this won't help balance

 

[greenlemonade]

Good point. Though even the later battles, the german's had more captured PPSHs than they had MP 40s. lol

 

[greenlemonade]

Well this won't help balance

WHo said anything about balance?
You might be acting in sarcasm, but just in case:
Now that you mention it, I think it would help with balance, though this IS for historical accuracy.
It takes a LOT of suspension of belief to view the weapons being used on on the battle field. I think the most commonly seen discrepancy is the HUGE amount of MP40s. These were not used much in Stalingrad.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

Keep in mind the size of both nation's armies. During the course of the war Soviet army employed 5 to 6 times the amount of men the German army did, so it would need those extra PPSH's to reach the same percentage of men armed with an SMG.

Let's also keep in mind that the Germans deployed a huge variety of SMG's alongside the MP40, not to mention later the StG.

 

[Joseph-Porta]

So.. you suggest that germans should have.. 4-5 guys with MP40s and rest 98ks, while russians almost all have PPSHs? I suppose the last 7 guys will have STV40s?


Well, that will make battles rather interesting...

 

[MSol_18]

In almost every map I play there are more mp40s+g41s than K98k's. This doesn't make sense at all because the weapon that was made by the millions is being used least (not to mention that the mp40 may be seen as an "automatic sniper", as one guy called it).

Another thing that may be a bit out of point but I think is worth mentioning: Tripwire need to add alot of sway on the G41. That weapon weighs 5.1 kilos making it an utter failure of a rifle. Why do you think it was taken out of production so quickly?

The main point I'd like to put forward is that both the German and Russian sides need to use more bolt-actions

 

[Josef Nader]

It's fine like it is. Honestly, I don't see what's so overpowered about the MP40. When I get killed by it it always seems to be in the situation it was designed for; close quarters combat.

 

[Depulsor]

In RO1 there was this one costum map , this one trench system in the woods on this map alsmost every russian had a PPSH and germans almost only Kar98s and i could still enjoy the game, as german ofcourse! Also i dont understand why everyone hates the Boltactionrifle so much its my favorite besides the MP40.

 

[Josef Nader]

I play almost exclusively bolts and I can out-snipe any chucklehead with an SMG no sweat. If he starts shooting at me, I scoot to the next window and drop his Kraut keester.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

In almost every map I play there are more mp40s+g41s than K98k's. This doesn't make sense at all because the weapon that was made by the millions is being used least (not to mention that the mp40 may be seen as an "automatic sniper", as one guy called it).

Another thing that may be a bit out of point but I think is worth mentioning: Tripwire need to add alot of sway on the G41. That weapon weighs 5.1 kilos making it an utter failure of a rifle. Why do you think it was taken out of production so quickly?

The main point I'd like to put forward is that both the German and Russian sides need to use more bolt-actions

It weighed 4.9 kg, and it wasn't a failure because of this. The main complaint was gas system fouling, which was a result of the corrosive ammunition used back then. To keep the rifle operational required more cleaning than acceptable for a standard frontline weapon, and was therefore deemed a failure.

When in working order the G41 was a great rifle though, and easily more accurate than the SVT40.

 

[Flanker15]

I sure there'll be community maps that will cater to this by the end of the year.

 

[SheepDip]

Have to agree with Unus here, mostly there were that many more Russian smgs because there were that many more Russians. If you're going to represent the "imbalance" in production numbers then you'll have to represent the imbalance in troop numbers during the battles. It's not worth doing - you're wandering into the realms of "let's make war hell" here - it would be horribly imbalanced and no fun if it was like that.

And about "they didn't use that many MP40's", really? Got any literature to back that up?
Last I checked on a 64 man server the assault class was limited to about 6 per team (not including SL or TL), so about 20%?

And about the rifles - that's preference, I've read a lot of negative comments about how the SVT or the G41 are too effective, or there are too many of them - so I've been purposefully taking the rifleman class as much as possible, and easily scoring just as high as those with autos. You need to play the class you are and you can be just as effective.

 

[greenlemonade]

Everyone seems to think this is purely about balance.
Balance is a bit in there, because YES, I feel the MP40 was a slighly more useful weapon in real life than the PPSH, but the PPSH was a LOT more available. Especially in the Battle of Stalingrad before Germans started outfitting squads with them.

I challenge someone to show me as many pictures an MP40 NOT wielded by a Squad or Platoon commander. I could then show you 2 pics of Common solders with PPSH.

Ill start:
[url]http://www.learnnc.org/lp/multimedia/13508[/URL]
[url]http://www.glogster.com/media/5/33/52/8/33520824.jpg[/URL]
[url]http://www.alphaares.com/asl/red%20barricadi/stalingrad-250.jpg[/URL]
[url]http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media//64/127264-050-AAC14C86.jpg[/URL]
[url]http://www.pbs.org/behindcloseddoors/tmp_assets/ep2b-img1_lrg.jpg[/URL]
[url]http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/41253-1/ww2+Stalingrad+037-1520[/URL]
[url]http://ww2db.com/images/battle_stalingrad86.jpg[/URL]
[url]http://www.euro-webonline.com/world_cultures/images/wwII_stalingrad.jpg[/URL]
[url]http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-E0406-0022-001_Russland_Kesselschlacht_Stalingrad.jpg [/URL] LOL
[url]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_-7-vboSIDG8/SPiXv5Z_rTI/AAAAAAAADUA/_7QaVdR-b9s/s400/resized_battle-stalingrad-6.jpg[/URL]
[url]http://ww2total.com/WW2/Weapons/Infantry/Firearms/Russian/PPSh-41/images/russ_Sturmfuehrer_Stalingrad-px800.jpg[/URL]
[url]http://eng.9may.ru/images/galery/9001764.JPG[/URL]

 

[Homuth]

Well the germans picked up a hell of a lot PPSH as well, also riflemen. So I would only be matter of time before the amount of MP40's will decrease and the PPSH will increase in game, which would result in the same amount of SMG's. And that I think is realistic.

 

[Joseph-Porta]

[url]http://ww2total.com/WW2/Weapons/Infantry/Firearms/Russian/PPSh-41/images/russ_Sturmfuehrer_Stalingrad-px800.jpg[/URL]
[url]http://eng.9may.ru/images/galery/9001764.JPG[/URL]

And now just to remind you lot about what has been said about the G43, STG44 etc etc.

But that is just propaganda pictures! ofc they show off loads of PPSH, its propgaganda.. *nods nods*

Well the germans picked up a hell of a lot PPSH as well, also riflemen. So I would only be matter of time before the amount of MP40's will decrease and the PPSH will increase in game, which would result in the same amount of SMG's. And that I think is realistic.

They even adapted it into 9mm and used MP40 stick mags.
I have even seen pictures of the PPSH with drum magazine in the ardenne offensive even.

But this will happen once we get veterans germans with PPSH. Russians with MP40s

 

[Apparition]

Sounds like a good mod for scenario battles

You could also add a chance modifier of Soviet Rifles starting with only 2 rounds of ammunition.

Follow the man with the Rifle! When he dies you pick up the rifle and shoot!

 

[greenlemonade]

Heck, I think Heroes on the German side should have the option of taking a PPSH no matter what their Squad roll.

I also think the Russians should have a slightly longer cool down time on Artillery, Rockets and Recon planes.
But I also think the Russians should have the normal 6 assault roles while Germans should have 3.
This ISN't game breaking. We still have the crap ton of squad leaders and Commanders bringing in MP40s. It would just bring it a little closer to the actual numbers.
(I also wish the Deluxe D. Edition didn't come with those rare weapons already unlocked. They should be ULTRA rare.)

 

[Nordmanne]

Set the Accuraccy from mp4 down? Are you Crazy?

Because an Mp40 vs an PPsh in Buildings. What do you Thinking has the better Chance? The PPsh!

And then look to the Upgrades. An PPsh like in RO1 with 70 Bullet Magazin and no one can stop that a guy with this gun.

So i think it is a good balance now, like it is.

First wait till the full game is out and then lets talk again about this.
But now you want balance the Game. And a THing who is good!

The Half automatic Guns have the same accuraccy like the Carabines. So why shoot i take the Carabine! This is a Problem. But not the Mp4 and PPsh. Learn to play with the Guns and then we talk about this.

Even these Guys who not playing Clanwars or in Ladder and talking about Balance...