General Firearm Discussion
- Thread starter Merin Redplate
- Start date
Plus you can still get different kinds of ammo that do more damage, 45's are sooooooooo expensive in the US and I have no idea why.
So 9mm is better in every aspect except the one which firearms are designed for, wounding and killing? I'll take the .45 for defense kthxbai
So 9mm is better in every aspect except the one which firearms are designed for, wounding and killing? I'll take the .45 for defense kthxbai
Then you'll pay 57108859-173650175 for ammo and have logistical problems.
The 9mm still has hollowpoint rounds that do more damage, and even with a regular FMJ when you have 2 bullets in your heart an one in your brain, you won't know the difference.
So while the 45 is still an excellent round, I just don't want to pay 85732059160958-2752175 yrh1765408165433197438`1653109751859275642597568265 2865025 972709-67186 for the ammo.
The question now is, are we talking about the .45ACP as a personal defense round or as a military round?So 9mm is better in every aspect except the one which firearms are designed for, wounding and killing? I'll take the .45 for defense kthxbai
For defense its good but you won't be able to shoot it as much.
For military use only special forces use it.
Worried about the cost of ammo when your life depends on it?
For military use a .45 is better since you are limited to FMJ, and cost doesn't matter. Yeah the US military uses 9mm, but the soldiers on the ground didn't make or like the decision to switch. Special Forces picks their ammo, and as you said they choose .45 pistols.
Really though either one is a good round, but to base your decision entirely on cost just doesn't seem right.
I'll take 7,62x25mm over either then because it's cheap, and it pierces body armor!
I'd rather have a gun that I shoot more often with a weaker round than a gun I shoot less often with a more powerful round.
Also....
US Marine special forces use 1911 45's, and the SEAL's use suppressed 45's, but the SEAL's main pistol is a SIG 9mm, and the Army special forces use both Beretta's and Glocks in 9mm. Pretty much all non US military special forces use 9mm's except for the Canadians who use 357 SIG.
So the 9mm is mostly used, the 1911 like I mentioned are old surplus pistols that the Marines refurbish, and the SEAL's Mark 23 is a specialized pistol.
But aside from all this, pistols usually don't make much a difference, I'm sure less that 1% of all soldiers killed in war are from pistols, for Law Enforcement they are allowed to use hollowpoint ammo (which the military is not, oddly enough) and for civilians your never going to get in a huge gun battle, you'll probably be shooting someone breaking into your house, since the vast majority of crime is due to drugs, the assailant might not feel any pain, however like I said, when he has multiple gunshot wounds in the chest it won't make a difference :IS2:
If you need to use more than 13 rounds (Glock 21, HK USP, etc.) you need to learn to shoot better, or get your rifle.
That being said. Either round is good. I just don't base my personal defense on cost. Which is what you said was your reasoning.
I think the best compromise is a .40 caliber pistol. Higher capacity than a .45, and harder hitting than a 9mm. In fact, almost as hard as a .45 ACP.
That being said. Either round is good. I just don't base my personal defense on cost. Which is what you said was your reasoning.
I think the best compromise is a .40 caliber pistol. Higher capacity than a .45, and harder hitting than a 9mm. In fact, almost as hard as a .45 ACP.
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I think you guys are looking at it from the wrong side.
As a military round the 9mm has clear advantages over the .45ACP, while it has a rather neglectible disadvantage for military use.
All military SMG's (eycept the new PDW's like the P90) use 9x19 because of it's clear advantages. For pistols, the higher mag capacity, higher penetration, higher accuracy and lower recoil are big plusses, especially if you are going up against a target that carries body armour (neither round will penetrate, but the 9x19 will be able to put more rounds down range faster and both rounds have about the same kinetic energy if stopped dead in their tracks).
Now as a personal defece round at home the .45 quite obviously is the better round. You simply want your target down as fast as possible, and I have yet to hear of a case where an ordinary robber carries body armour.
But anyway, I don't thinkl any of us would like to be shot at by either.
As a military round the 9mm has clear advantages over the .45ACP, while it has a rather neglectible disadvantage for military use.
All military SMG's (eycept the new PDW's like the P90) use 9x19 because of it's clear advantages. For pistols, the higher mag capacity, higher penetration, higher accuracy and lower recoil are big plusses, especially if you are going up against a target that carries body armour (neither round will penetrate, but the 9x19 will be able to put more rounds down range faster and both rounds have about the same kinetic energy if stopped dead in their tracks).
Now as a personal defece round at home the .45 quite obviously is the better round. You simply want your target down as fast as possible, and I have yet to hear of a case where an ordinary robber carries body armour.
But anyway, I don't thinkl any of us would like to be shot at by either.
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13 .45 rounds isn't enough?
Even if you have to shoot more than that. A pistol isn't gonna cut it. I like 9mm, and it is easier to shoot quickly. The whole ammo capacity debate is over though. There are too many high capacity .45s available to use it. I'll leave it at that. I done with this. Have a good day!
The main reason is that it is the standard NATO pistol round, so just about all SMGs where made for it.
Even during WWII, many countries used 9mm. That is probably the main reason 9mm was chosen, it would be the easiest to make the standard since many countries probably had large stock piles of it.
I am not saying that 9mm is a bad caliber, I am just saying that is probably why it was chosen.
I'm just saying, 9mm is whats most popular, so thats what I want, I'm not a huge fan of obscure rounds.
For example I think the 5.7 cool pistol, I never used one, but I would get one someday if I had the money.
Another thing is money, and this can be for anything not just guns, but as a young person I don't want to get in 75931579375631850365175963018516593175081 dollars of debt, not saying I'm cheap, I just don't want to be 3563753265385827-5742657-08651785041iug487f8yg72c 63075p832798fhgb2u48357042759-42jh5279-2795 dollars in debt, so I would rather start off with guns that are cheap yet good and reliable, like Russian surplus, Glocks, ETC. I'll get FN SCARS and 50 caliber sniper rifles with ridiculous accessories when I actually make alot of money, and I'll have huge collections of historical antiques when I'm an eccentric billionaire who wears silk robes all the time.
For example I think the 5.7 cool pistol, I never used one, but I would get one someday if I had the money.
Another thing is money, and this can be for anything not just guns, but as a young person I don't want to get in 75931579375631850365175963018516593175081 dollars of debt, not saying I'm cheap, I just don't want to be 3563753265385827-5742657-08651785041iug487f8yg72c 63075p832798fhgb2u48357042759-42jh5279-2795 dollars in debt, so I would rather start off with guns that are cheap yet good and reliable, like Russian surplus, Glocks, ETC. I'll get FN SCARS and 50 caliber sniper rifles with ridiculous accessories when I actually make alot of money, and I'll have huge collections of historical antiques when I'm an eccentric billionaire who wears silk robes all the time.
Problem with the 5.7mm is that it has terrible terminal ballistics.
But it does pierce most body armour.
But it does pierce most body armour.
Problem with the 5.7mm is that it has terrible terminal ballistics.
But it does pierce most body armour.
I'm not sure the guy who shot up Fort Hood did some damage with it unfortunately, but it does prove its effectiveness.
I would want one of them, they are very unique pistols are are truly futuristic, in fact most of the slide is made of plastic, like the frame.
The only real problem is that armor piercing rounds are illegal for civilians, and the ammo itself costs 75321975328563218583165017597165984317650743156314594265796576219757215947564179576-42197691769-17429568-267918650=7219gvhjfrv82g97t658165715:IS2:4315948709571937515175816598356197501759
Seriously, what's wrong with your numbers?
No offense, but I had to bite my thounge every single time you come up with all those numbers which, not only make your posts hard to read, but make you look stupid.
You can just say that they are expensive, we'll all get the idea.
No offense, but I had to bite my thounge every single time you come up with all those numbers which, not only make your posts hard to read, but make you look stupid.
You can just say that they are expensive, we'll all get the idea.
Seriously, what's wrong with your numbers?
No offense, but I had to bite my thounge every single time you come up with all those numbers which, not only make your posts hard to read, but make you look stupid.
You can just say that they are expensive, we'll all get the idea.
do you have any idea how prohibitively expensive some ammo can be? PTRD ammo in canada is over 15 bucks a pop. .45-70 is about 2$ a shot.
He is exaggerating a bit, but still not too far off the mark..
Do you even have any idea how expensive ammo is in Austria?
50 rounds of cheap *** 8x57 (which is the pretty much standard hunting calibre) cost ca 60€
More exotic rounds like the .30-06 are more expensive, .45-70 is impossible to buy.
50 rounds of cheap *** 8x57 (which is the pretty much standard hunting calibre) cost ca 60€
More exotic rounds like the .30-06 are more expensive, .45-70 is impossible to buy.