General Consensus on what the Content Patch will mean for the Sharp

[Undedd Jester]

Absolutely not nerf 1 shot kill headshots.

1 headshot kill is very enjoyable, fun kill in the game as a sharpshooter.

It is just great fun to look for headshot for the Fleshpounds. Its achievement when u get one. It is just FUN.

In every perk, there must be something that is unique and fun. As a sharpshooter, theres a HEADSHOT.

Remowing headshots from sharpshooters, its like remowing fire from firebugs (instead of flamethrower givin em waterpistols).

Just add more FP:s in the game, if theres something must to be done.

Well... okay, I have to seriously disagree.

It might be fun for people who like god mode, but myself, all my mates, and everyone from this very forum like to have a challenge when playing Killing Floor.

I myself feel Killing Floor is at its best around level 3 cause stuff is still hard and money is a problem alot of the time, forcing you to think about what your doing rather than mindlessly mowing down scores of ZEDs

The problem is no single player should be able to take on the Fleshpound alone. The arguement "it feels like a real achievement" is kinda poor, if you beat a fleshpound single handed as a Support Specialist its a good achievement, and if you beat one single handed as a Berzerker it is an excellent feeling. This is because it is actually hard to do.

On the flip side if I don't beat a Fleshpound as a Sharpshooter then I tell myself I suck. He moves pretty slow, in a straight line with a big head to stick a bolt straight through. Its hardly a hard target.

He's supposed to be the hardest enemy in the game, but if a lone player can take him out by doing the FPS equivilent of blinking, whats the point of having him?

I'm not ridiculing dude, but you are unfortunately in a serious minority.

 

[SMIFF]

I completely agree with Undedd Jester

The crossbow 1 shot kills have turned the Fleshpound/Scrake into an absolute joke, Gorefasts are more of a threat now

and no it doesn't feel like an "achievement" killing them with the crossbow

The feeling is similar to that of killing a clot, kinda like "ok, where's the next one"

EDIT: Wait, you want more fleshpounds? Why cripple all the manly perks just so you can have 4 less crossbow bolts at the end of the wave? No.

 

[Old Ranger]

Neither I dont like god mode. I was just tryin to say that theres unique skills in every perk. I also like challenge situations. But i also want handle those situations as action i would like to play. Playing as Sharpshooter, it is headshot (and for me its with xbow (or HC for littler enemies)).

I also like teamwork, i dont solo. Best games are those when u thank all of perks people play and every one enjoys playin in that perk. If one of the perk unique skill is removed, it is not enjoyable playing anymore.

As a support, which is one of my favorite, if u cant funnel(?) groups, feeling is gone.

I think that critisism for Sharpshooters huge damage is because they can take FP:s in one shot.

IMO. Give us more FP:s spawns in waves. Lets see.

 

[Uk1t4k3]

I'm ready for more FP spawns or reduce crossbow bolts to 15(increase price to 1000).

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

one-shoting a Scrake using a crossbow: as a level6 SS that's just fine.......as a level3 medic/zerker/support? NOT fine. that needs to stop.

on-shoting a FP using a crossbow: as a level6 SS, sure. for any other class? NEVER.....while it currently isnt possible above hard, it's possible in normal/beginner for other classes to one-shot FP's with the bow.

to solve that, somebody made the suggestion to reduce the headshot multiplier that is built into the weapon.....SS already has a headshot bonus so that combined with say a 3x headshot multiplier should still result in level6 SS getting one-shot kills but eliminate other classes from getting one/two shot kills, which rightfully so, they shouldn't have that ability.

reducing the number of bolts a SS gets would help make each shot more valuable. increasing the amount of FPs per wave would help. increasing the potential for more "priority" targets (say a FP, Scrake, husk, siren) to spawn together would help.

my philosophy for making the game more "difficult" has always been to make things harder through making zeds smarter, more powerful, more numerous etc.... making maps more challenging. making weapons more expensive. there are other, more effective ways to increase challenge besides "nerfing" weapons to hell. while certain aspects of weapons need balancing tweeks, that's not all that's needed to really take the game up a notch.

 

[SMIFF]

bswearer, the main problem would still exist, level 6 sharpies one shotting everything, it's game breaking and needs to be removed completely

Nerfing the crossbow for other classes would just encourage more people to play sharpshooter

 

[Undedd Jester]

bswearer, the main problem would still exist, level 6 sharpies one shotting everything, it's game breaking and needs to be removed completely

Nerfing the crossbow for other classes would just encourage more people to play sharpshooter

Agreed

Bottom line, Sharpshooter should be good against fleshpounds, not god like.

The Xbow makes it too easy, whenever I play a game in suicidal without a Sharpshooter, all of a sudden the game becomes fun, cause you immediately see people move into position to deal with the FP. Zerkers and Medics move up to get ready to try and block him, Commando's and Support drop in behind to fire at will when the fleshy rages. Firebug will usually ignite him early to start his crisp up countdown to hopefully slow him down when he rages.

Me and my mates all set up and simulataneously threw 1 grenade each at his feet. Support then hit him with a double HS shot causing him to stop in place to rage. At that moment the grenades blew and we all immediately unloaded on him with everything we had.

Our Zerker took a hit, but survived and the Support Specialist swapped back to his HS and finished the Fleshpound off with a final HS double blast.

It was actually awesome to see people work like a team for once in what is otherwise a contest in who can grab the most kills. When the Zerker was riding high, there was still alot of teamwork mkaing sure he didn't get surrounded. On the flip side team work was definately lost when the Sharpshooter became the wrecking machine for the game... cause everyone has to be extremely selfish to beat the sharpshooters to the punch.

 

[C_Gibby]

I would hate to see the number of fleshies increased because all other perks will be useless. Also, I've been in countless games where nobody plays sharpie at all. If more FPs are added, and a sharpie isn't present, game over.

but yeah, sharpie should stay good at killing fleshpounds but within reason. :IS2:

 

[Compass]

Wouldn't giving the sharpshooter a Tier 3 Bolt Action rifle be a sufficient alternative? Let's say:

M95(or L96, or Tac-90, or Dragonuv, or so on)
Capacity: 10 mag/90 full
Cost: $4000 ($1200 fully discounted)
Rate of Fire - 25% longer than LAR action
Damage - Twice as much as M14 per shot
Reload - 30% longer than M14
No Penetration (dedicated anti-special)
Has Scope
Slow Run Speed

That would be far more Sharpshooter-like than an M14 blazing away with Semi.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

bswearer, the main problem would still exist, level 6 sharpies one shotting everything, it's game breaking and needs to be removed completely

when you say "everything" that would be the 20 zeds that he shoots his 20 crossbow bolts at? can you explain to me what exactly is wrong with that? the SS getting 20 kills is a problem? players can "one-shot" over 50% of the different zeds as a commando.....not only just using the SCAR, but even the AK and bullpup. zerkers can "one-shot" every zed but FPs and scrakes when using a katana....and sometimes with just a knife. demos can "one-shot" entire groups of zeds with one pipebomb explosion or with a shot from his grenade launcher. supports can "one-shot" multiple zeds with one shotgun blast. firebugs could "one-shot" groups of zeds by igniting them on fire and walking away to let them burn to death. in case you've missed my point, the "one-shot" issue in fact isn't an issue that involves just the SS or just the crossbow.

where it involves the SS and in particular the crossbow, is that the SS can take out the two biggest targets in the game in one shot. high level SS having the ability to take out priority targets in one shot is NOT gamebreaking. SS being able to do that, and additionly being able to spam away and kill everything else using the EBR or even the 9mm IS gamebreaking. the SS's role IS to dispatch priority targets in one well placed shot so that other perks don't have to waste all their ammo on them. other perks are designed to kill the "mobs" of lower tier zeds to keep the area clear for the SS to do his job. the main problem with the SS perk right now is that the SS is able to clear everything on his own which eliminates the need of the rest of the perks being used. the crossbow is not the cause of that...the ever spamable EBR, 9mm and handcannons, plus easy leveling, and the senseless body damage bonuses are the main causes for that.

the only issue with the crossbow is the relatively low cost (especially note the ammo/buyback issue), and the more than reasonable amount of bolts that can be carried. one additional issue is that level6 SS spawn with the weapon when they have no need for it until at least 70% of the wave into the game. so to put it as simply as i can, the crossbow needs to be more difficult to get, cost more to reload and be used less frequently against the lower tier zeds....and that's just for the SS. the crossbow needs to be nearly IMPOSSIBLE for non-SS perks to buy or carry. additionally, it shouldn't be anywhere near as powerful in the hands of non-SS than it does with the SS perk, which is where the suggestion to reduce the weapon's headshot multiplier would come into play since the SS headshot bonus would allow him to still do his job while stopping other perks from abusing what the weapon is designed for.

additionally, i realize it's impossible for me to convince KF "socialists" to agree with me in regards to the way i view teamplay in this game. the SS one-shotting priority targets is his job. the other perks have their unique jobs. everyone does their job, they help the team survive and in the end the team is successful. it's not everyone's "job" to contribute by physically doing damage to every single zed or have to contribute damage when taking down the "bosses". because of this, some people will continue to disagree about the crossbow's ability to one-shot the highest level zeds. we'll leave that in the hands of TW to decide how they view teamplay and whether or not the SS should continue to have that job and keep his ability to complete his job with a weapon like the crossbow

 

[Zeron]

*gets eaten by the wall of text monster*

I mean...

You sure kicked that guys butt huh?

 

[Vaecrius]

...I'm actually agreeing with most of what bswearer is saying, this is disturbing.

Except: The way the bow works now you can one-shot more than one zed with one shot - especially given how they tend to make a beeline for you if you're not actively circling them or letting your teammates draw aggro. I think if this feature of the xbow is taken away and it's a dedicated one-shot-one-kill weapon, it's perfect the way it is. (Which I suppose is the second point of disagreement. But then, I am primarily thinking about fleshpounds (which won't be one-shotted without an SS on higher difficulties) and don't think of any individual scrake as a particularly huge threat to any team that has one scrake-killer with either a bow, a katana, or a high-damage perk-boosted weapon.)

 

[Old Ranger]

I have taken a Third thought of this FP instant Sharpieshooter headshot kill.

There really is Scrake, which is enjoyable kill to get, and that is a real thread too. Thats may enough hunt for me. But this must be oneshot instant kill. It is great to have this and keep SS playable perk.

What comes to FP, imo i think now its okay to remove 1 headshot kill from SS. 2 shot might be good.

Yes i agree, that there should be Real One beast in the game in waves. I may have not played so long KF as you have. I have Just read some good explanations for heavier FP.

Still wondering. Nowadays I have seen in normal 4 FP raging at same time.. Raging FP is hard target imo when its not chasing you (with xbow). Those raging FPs were killed by support specialist not sharpie with xbow.

Is there been update for those FPs? (I think, crawlers theres more, or they just spawn different places?)

And still what makes SharpS enjoyable to play, is that that if u miss your shots, what will happened then. Raging FP. But if you elimate that thread, thats enjoyable.

I havent play as a sharpshooter since i had it to level 6 (about 2 months ago). But i used only xbow and HC. I think ammo of those should not be less. Very enjoyable Perk to play, i still say. Gameplay of KF is just great, and athmosphere.

K, im rdy to try, if FPs headshot instant kill removed, but Scrake 1 headshot instant kill - must be in game for Sharpies to hunt. IMO, now. GG HF.

Ill think this again next week. I just go now and test what kind Sharpshooter is play today (been several weeks not to play as sharpie). I also try for example bodyshots instead of headshot, to see what is like to have 2-3 headshot to be needed to kill FP.

 

[SMIFF]

I reiterate, killing a fleshpound in one shot is overpowered, he's meant to be the biggest baddest hardest non-boss enemy, yet he can be taken out SOLO in 2 seconds, the FP used to require teamwork to take down, like a good 4 players shooting him with everything they got, whilst the other 2 would keep the lesser specimens at bay, this was balanced.

I don't know why you started talking about other weapons one shotting weak crap, they can't one shot a fleshpound. Which is the main problem

The crossbow sharpshooter should do large damage to him, like just over a 3rd of his health on 6 man hard, I beleive that is fair, whilst still powerful

I agree that the sharpshooter shouldn't be able to ahnialate lesser zeds so easily, removing pistol bonuses would probably sort that out.

M14 is a whole different issue for another time

 

[C_Gibby]

its okay to remove 1 headshot kill from SS. 2 shot might be good.

Oh god...

I hate it when people come here to suggest things for KF in an attempt to make it easier for themselves..

Currently, the Fleshie has two weaknesses: Explosives and Xbow users. Logically, the Flesie wouldn't be killed by a sodding wooden arrow. If you look at the Fleshie's head, it's covered in metal, it's not likely that a wooden arrow would be able to penetrate this IRL, would it? TWI need to make sense of this and make the fleshie headshot-resistant. The fleshie is real weak against explosives, so that's balanced I guess.

Although the Scrake is resistant to explosives. He's a bald-headed man with a chainsaw. I think only a level 6 Sharpshooter should be able to one/two-shot him with the crossbow. He and the FP belong on both sides of the same coin; they're both heavies but where one has a strength, the other has a weakness.

You have two ways of killing heavies: Headshots for one, explosives for the other.

 

[Old Ranger]

Oh god...

I hate it when people come here to suggest things for KF in an attempt to make it easier for themselves..

Actually i was ment to say, that instead of 1 headshot kill, FP needs 2 headshots to kill it. I was not suggestin makin things easier for sharpshooter. Sry my english is pretty poor.

Earlier my opinion was that 1 headshot kill is just fine, but i took a second and third thougt of it.

 

[C_Gibby]

Actually i was ment to say, that instead of 1 headshot kill, FP needs 2 headshots to kill it. I was not suggestin makin things easier for sharpshooter. Sry my english is pretty poor.

Earlier my opinion was that 1 headshot kill is just fine, but i took a second and third thougt of it.

2 shots is still very small. Did you read the rest of my post? The scrake should take around 2/3 shots, but the fleshpound should be immune to them almost completely.

 

[Compass]

If you can't land 2 headshots on an FP with a crossbow, you're not doing it right. Under most normal non-teamfailing circumstances, landing the first headshot, causing him to rage and stop moving, makes the second shot a gimme. Now, making it 25% effective instead of 50% effective increases HS rate to 4 headshots for Medics and Zerks, or 2 headshots for any L6 sharpshooter. Then you won't see people doing rage-kites to kill FPs like they're supposed to be easy.

 

[Old Ranger]

2 shots is still very small. Did you read the rest of my post? The scrake should take a 2/3 shots, but the fleshpound should be immune to them almost completely.

I agree that FP may/should be heavier.

But Scrake is also big thread, and eliminate thread 1 headshot kill makes sharpshooter perk playable, enjoyable. If Scrake needs 2 of 3 headshot, to kill, no one uses xbow to kill Scrake. First shot only makes him rage, and never know who Scrake is gonna take. You use long range to kill with scope, there are other peoples between Scrake and you. People just say to sharpies - dont rage that Scrake, dont take that long shot with that zoom. Sharpies, with zoomed scope, become useless. One unique gun less in the game.

Xbow is just only gun in KF which have "sniperrifle scope", zoom. It is fun to play. It is fun, unique gun. If u cant eliminate at least one big thread with that in the whole game, it is just not fun.

 

[C_Gibby]

I agree that FP may/should be heavier.

But Scrake is also big thread, and eliminate thread 1 headshot kill makes sharpshooter perk playable, enjoyable. If Scrake needs 2 of 3 headshot, to kill, no one uses xbow to kill Scrake. First shot only makes him rage, and never know who Scrake is gonna take. You use long range to kill with scope, there are other peoples between Scrake and you. People just say to sharpies - dont rage that Scrake, dont take that long shot with that zoom. Sharpies, with zoomed scope, become useless. One unique gun less in the game.

Xbow is just only gun in KF which have "sniperrifle scope", zoom. It is fun to play. It is fun, unique gun. If u cant eliminate at least one big thread with that in the whole game, it is just not fun.

Go back and read my post again.

The SCRAKE is the one meant to be easier to kill with headshots. The Fleshoound is not meant to be easy to kill with headshots.

And just saying that 1-shotting an FP makes the game "enjoyable" is ridiculous. I suppose you only find a game enjoyable if it's easy?