Gap In Shotgun Selection

[C_Gibby]

SPAS15

I like everything here, 'cept for the model of the gun - I feel it looks a little too much like the AA12. New guns in KF should stand out from the rest a little bit. Here's an idea for a semi-automatic shotty:

Spoiler!

It looks very different to all the others (although sharing the hunty's wood finish) but it looks very sexy, no? All that finesse, yo.

 

[noupperlobeman]

I agreed, although not only for Support but for most perks.
I think IJC's Kel-tech KSG Shotgun seems to be a good potential gap closer though


Just because firebug and medic are in the most need of more weapon variety, doesn't mean that ALL perks can't get more equal weapon choices. Here is just a quick list (no details here, that is for a huge incoming post later, ideas about future updates or for KF2) of ideas to equalize between the perks:

Spoiler!

Commando:
1) Bullpup
2) Assault Rifle w. Underslung Grenade Launcher (for Demo too)
3) AK47
4) FAL
5) SCAR
6) Bren Gun

Demolitions:
1) M79
2) Assault Rifle w. Underslung Grenade Launcher (for Comm too)
3) Neopup PAW-20
4) Pipebombs
5) M32
6) LAW
(+ Handgrenades)

Firebug:
1) Welder (able to deal damage)
2) Sterling Incendiary
3) Flare Blaster
4) Flamethrower
5) Tesla Gun
6) Husk Cannon

Support:
1) Shotgun
2) Nail Cannon
3) Hunting Shotgun
4) Kel-tech KSG
5) AA12
6) Gatling/Minigun

Medic:
1) Syringe
2) Armor
3) MP7
4) Medic Shotgun (lineheal)
5) M7A3 (aoe-heal)

Berserker:
1) Knife
2) Machete
3) Dual Machetes
4) Fire Axe
5) Katana
6) Chainsaw

Sharpshooter:
1) Mauser C96 (Red 9) w. stock
2) LAR
3) Hunting Rifle
4) Crossbow
5) M14
6) M99

Agent / Gunslinger:
1) 9mm (dualwieldable)
2) MK23 (dualwieldable)
3) Handcannon (dualwieldable)
4) Mac10 (dualwieldable)
5) Colt Python (NOT dualwieldable)

Just an example

Oh, I wasn't implying that the other perks don't need more weapons. I was just stating my personal opinion that medic/firebug could use some weapons (they are my favorite perks).

I fully support new weapons for any perk!

 

[Judaeus Apella]

Why not just be stuck with the ammunition you choose at the trader for each specific gun? Just get two guns with different ammo's. Pump for BS, and another like the double or other for slugs?

Also the AA-12 has ammunition made for it that is explosive.... they really need to include that. The military uses it to bust through barricaded doors and thin walls. It would be a GREAT option for the Demo!!! And it would work wonders for the Support character.

But I'd really like them to add the SEMI-AUTO Browning Gold light 10 or the Remington SP-10 with Slug only ammunition available for it, or give players different options of ammunition for each gun.

For example, that P90 everyone wants is only as good as the ammunition you use in it. There's armor piercing, controlled fragmentation, hollow point, sporting, tracer, and a bunch of other options. If you tried using sporting against a huge 500 pound hulking pissed off mutant with spinning blades for hands.... you'd be screwed. You need the hollow point or the controlled fragmentation. Same thing with using a shotgun, you can't go after a target like that with buckshot... you'd have to be mad. You need slugs or controlled fragmentation... yes they make them for shotguns too. I saw a slug blast a hole the size of a grapefruit once in one of those test dummies made of gel they used to test weaponry. NASTY! I really want those for the FPs, and they're common... so why aren't they in the game?

 

[Lacedaemonius]

Another thing I'd like to see which was completely ignored by Killing Flor is:

SLUGS!!!

I honestly do not understand why so many games leave slugs out, and really grinds me gears that so many people who make games leave out slugs. Buckshot is good for smaller faster moving creatures that have less resistance and crowd control since you get a nice spread, while slugs are better for larger heavier soft targets and larger targets that are at a moderate distance away. I don't even think buckshot should work very well against Scrakes unless you're close, and almost not at all against Fleshpounders and the Patriarch (unless you're real close or point blank). True, they're flesh targets but they're also huge mutated super freaks with a severe lack in anger management skills. You should be using slugs against them. That buckshot might as well be rock salt unless you're really close.

Problem is though, that creates major balance issues. The support is supposed to be a CQB specialist and completely impotent at a distance with his class weapons. Given his welding capabilities, fantabulous shotguns, extra and much more powerful grenades, and of course the fact that he carry MUCH MUCH MUCH more than the other classes, adding long range capabilities to his weapons would make him more OP than the berserker.

A shotgun firing slugs is an interesting LAR clone, but it would need to be a sharpshooter weapon.

 

[TheAzathoth]

A cool idea, but its true that there are other perks in need of weapons more urgently than the Support.

 

[Rhenna]

...Spread is an issue I neglected to mention when I listed the weapons, because it's hard to quantify. In short, the shotgun has an "average" spread, the coach gun's is much wider (impossibly wide I might add), and the AA12 has the tightest spread of the 3. To find a niche the Spas would need a variable spread, since how the weapon shoots is the most important element that sets it apart from other weapons.

In short, it's possible, but I have my doubts.

The HS is kind of a paradox with regard to ammunition cost and spread. On one hand you have this relatively heavy shotgun using this hellaciously expensive ammunition, which suggests something along the lines of a "duck/goose" gun, using 3" (76mm) or even 3-1/2" (89mm) magnum shotshells. Perhaps, it may even be a 10-gauge shotgun, as I don't know if the gauge of the HS is officially stated anywhere. That would make the high cost of the ammunition even more logical. A "goose" gun would have a very tight spread, although would not be suitable for anything resembling buckshot.

On the other hand, this all goes out the window when one witnesses the way the HS patterns it's shot. Shotguns with such "loose" chokes are light, often smaller gauge weapons, used for hunting fast-moving game like quail at close range.

True, large gauge shotguns firing buckshot are quite common, but these weapons provide a relatively dense pattern at something like 40+ meters, otherwise they would be quite useless. As everyone knows, using the HS at anything close to that range is simply a waste of time and ammunition. I'm not lobbying for any adjustments, mind you. It is what it is...

I agree with Judaeus Apella that slugs and sabot rounds would be a nice addition, but, I also appreciate the issues that Pika-Cthulhu ably points out. Seems like we would need a dedicated slug-gun to deal with those concerns. Why bother with another shotgun for Support? A great question. I'd offer that a slug gun would afford the Support types an opportunity to engage targets that are outside the effective range of their shot-based weapons. While many KF maps are close-quarters affairs, there are opportunities for some moderately long-range love on quite a few. Yes, that is properly Sharpshooter territory; I get that. But, on a public server with a pick-up crew of mixed perks and abilities, I'd like the team's Support to have the option of some additional range, if needed.

 

[Judaeus Apella]

Mind explaining why it would HAVE to be a sharp shooter weapon? I don't understand why it HAS to be anything other than just a different ammunition you can buy. Slugs are just accurate at moderate distances, they're not meant for sharp shooting... its not a snipers bullet. When you empty out your shotgun ammo, I'd like the option of selecting what kind of ammo you want to use for each shotgun. That way you can carry two shotguns, one with buckshot and the other with slugs and you can switch back and forth depending on the enemies you're fighting. I'd probably go buckshot with the pump and slugs with the double barrel or AA-12.

 

[Pika-Cthulhu]

Might be a power to accuracy thing with a slug that would have it broach upon SS territory. Big solid round of hurt +1 that can be delivered somewhat reliably to a specific target area (Head hitbox) resulting in a) Decapitation or b) outright death of the specimen.

I do like the idea of having a nice big power round being delivered to one target without having to, you know, get within grinding distance of a FP's grabby hands, but a variable choke on a shotgun (HS perhaps, spread does make it feel more like a Sawn off) or perhaps a duckbill attachment to give a nice spread of death on a horizontal plane delivering little balls of death at perfect height for making any clot have a really bad day. Rambling, apologies. Slug rounds perhaps only an option for HS giving it some accuracy over distance, or raw stopping power up close. That way you have a nice high weight weapon of 10, expensive and small pool of ammunition, and a somewhat easier way to change rounds, whilst still giving it enough negatives to not tread on the SS toes too badly. You still however are giving it to a very well rounded perk that already can deal with most situations when others could be argued require more attention. Perhaps filing it under future things to think about.