Gamescom 2010

[hockeywarrior]

Yea it really bugs me when mappers litter battlefields with all sorts of random equipment for no reason other than to provide artificial looking cover.

Hopefully the devs won't do this in RO:HOS as much as in RO:OST. It's a minor thing over all, but it does damage immersion in a map, in my opinion.

 

[Floyd]

Battlefields are usually littered with all sorts of random clutter. From abandoned civilian vehicles to blown-out tanks to rubble to crashed planes. Only after the battlefield or city is secure do the engineers move in with bulldozers and the like to clear the streets for supply convoys, etc. I don't know what all the fuss is about. If someone knows what should be included where and can model and texture it or they can do it more realistically, then by all means they should.

Not going to post them all, but here is a litany of pics with junk providing cover...

[URL="http://www.archives.gov/research/ww2/photos/images/ww2-102.jpg"][URL]http://www.archives.gov/research/ww2/photos/images/ww2-102.jpg
http://img355.imageshack.us/i/stalingradmp407oi.jpg/[/URL][/URL]
[URL="http://www.archives.gov/research/ww2/photos/images/ww2-115.jpg"][URL]http://www.archives.gov/research/ww2/photos/images/ww2-115.jpg[/URL][/URL]
[URL="http://www.archives.gov/research/ww2/photos/images/ww2-118.jpg"][URL]http://www.archives.gov/research/ww2/photos/images/ww2-118.jpg[/URL][/URL]
[URL="http://www.archives.gov/research/ww2/photos/images/ww2-119.jpg"][URL]http://www.archives.gov/research/ww2/photos/images/ww2-119.jpg[/URL][/URL]
[URL="http://www.archives.gov/research/african-americans/ww2-pictures/images/african-americans-wwii-040.jpg"][URL]http://www.archives.gov/research/african-americans/ww2-pictures/images/african-americans-wwii-040.jpg[/URL][/URL]

[URL="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_oIAhQMTG-dU/TB9QulIjq7I/AAAAAAAAFP4/H43dwpGyTiI/s1600/russia-ww2-second-world-war-eastern-front-russian-front-images-pictures-photos-stalingrad-005.jpg"][URL]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_oIAhQMTG-dU/TB9QulIjq7I/AAAAAAAAFP4/H43dwpGyTiI/s1600/russia-ww2-second-world-war-eastern-front-russian-front-images-pictures-photos-stalingrad-005.jpg[/URL][/URL]

 

[Moyako]

It's weird to see the troops in the first pic, they're running in the open ignoring the objects they could use as cover. Normally in RO, people would move from cover to cover, as common gameplay

 

[reyalpOR]

...

^^^Good pics^^^

There was a lot of rubble and some junk but not much for cover. I think most are worried about having substantial cover every five meters. Space it out a little, much like the first pic and the fourth link.

I'd imagine if this pic was an RO map, there would've been a truck in the background of the troops.

 

[Oldih]

Battlefields are usually littered with all sorts of random clutter. From abandoned civilian vehicles to blown-out tanks to rubble to crashed planes. Only after the battlefield or city is secure do the engineers move in with bulldozers and the like to clear the streets for supply convoys, etc. I don't know what all the fuss is about.

In every picture you posted there is plenty of rubble (which I never complained about) and most of the vehicles that are broken are oddly said 'reasonable' for realistic reasons than RO's "hey let's use trucks as offensive combat vehicles and have tons of conveniently KO'd vehicles giving cover on almost everywhere that remotedly looks like we're just placing artificial cover." and the plane comment was mostly that if a plane crashes and goes down by AA fire it's not really going to stay in one piece once it hits the ground, especially if the plane took over 2000-3000m+ dive prior impact.

I could use Pariserplatz as a good example (even though it's a custom map) that looks really realistic: there's tons of rubble, and abandoned\broken vehicles in areas that looks more like it they got really KO'd\destroyed before rather than just have it for the sake of having decorations as a cover.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Cover is ok if it looks natural and that can include destroyed vehicles etc, as long as its not just placed there by a mapper so it can be used as cover. I have seen some maps where this was done very well, others where it seems things were just dropped into an open area because the open space looked too big.

The really annoying cover is where you see things like crates just placed out in the open where it seems the mapper has NO imagination at all. Fine in a warehouse type setting, but just awkward elsewhere.

Also, I am not oppossed to large open spaces as represented in a few of Floyd's photos, to me that would seem very natural for a map.

 

[FlyXwire]

Downed aircraft and their crashed sections were a common part of the Stalingrad scenery.

 

[heady89]

Cover is ok if it looks natural and that can include destroyed vehicles etc, as long as its not just placed there by a mapper so it can be used as cover. I have seen some maps where this was done very well, others where it seems things were just dropped into an open area because the open space looked too big.

The really annoying cover is where you see things like crates just placed out in the open where it seems the mapper has NO imagination at all. Fine in a warehouse type setting, but just awkward elsewhere.

Also, I am not oppossed to large open spaces as represented in a few of Floyd's photos, to me that would seem very natural for a map.

Not very natural from a balancing point of view.
You're gonna have to accept certain things in realism vs gameplay.

 

[Fedorov]

Not very natural from a balancing point of view.
You're gonna have to accept certain things in realism vs gameplay.

Gameplay is better with less cover, as there are less places to look for enemies, producing less stress, resulting in a more enjoyable and satisfactory experience.

:IS2::IS2::IS2:

 

[Floyd]

Gameplay is better with less cover, as there are less places to look for enemies, producing less stress, resulting in a more enjoyable and satisfactory experience.

:IS2::IS2::IS2:

Because war is relaxing and fun!

 

[hockeywarrior]

I think open spaces are a great thing. It bugs me when maps are littered with tons of unnecessary and clearly artifically placed cover -- Brothers in Arms comes to mind for sure.

Open spaces provide the attackers with unique challenges. When there is always cover spaced out every 20 feet, it definitely takes the fun out of it. It also kills the immersion when there is a pile of random crates or barrels standing out of place in the middle of nowhere ... it just looks wrong and plays boring!

I hate to say it, but this screen shot shows what I'm talking about:

I mean I guess it kind of makes sense in this industrial setting, but all of the cover still looks highly artificially placed, kind of like something in Brothers in Arms. It's too bad, too because the map otherwise looks unbelievable. All of the crates and barrels are at perfect geometric angles that just happen to provide people with the perfect cover ... it just makes an otherwise realistic looking scene look very strange.

 

[Fedorov]

Because war is relaxing and fun!

Yay! lets make the game stressing, not rewarding and frustrating!

...If the game gave you the same stress as war, you'd probably close it and uninstall it before completing one mission, and would also probably mess your head up for life too.

I don't want that, do you?

:IS2:

 

[sampsa]

Yay! lets make the game stressing, not rewarding and frustrating!

...If the game gave you the same stress as war, you'd probably close it and uninstall it before completing one mission, and would also probably mess your head up for life too.

I don't want that, do you?

But if game manages to give a player PTSD it can be called a real simulator!

 

[Reise]

I mean I guess it kind of makes sense in this industrial setting, but all of the cover still looks highly artificially placed, kind of like something in Brothers in Arms. It's too bad, too because the map otherwise looks unbelievable. All of the crates and barrels are at perfect geometric angles that just happen to provide people with the perfect cover ... it just makes an otherwise realistic looking scene look very strange.

I dunno about you, but if I were running a factory, I wouldn't have my workers putting crates and other things all over the place in a random fashion. They would be in organized geometric positions!

That end of the map doesn't seem like it's going to be too busy anyway, as the screenshot points toward the outer boundary, possibly near a spawn point.

 

[heady89]

I think open spaces are a great thing. It bugs me when maps are littered with tons of unnecessary and clearly artifically placed cover -- Brothers in Arms comes to mind for sure.

Open spaces provide the attackers with unique challenges. When there is always cover spaced out every 20 feet, it definitely takes the fun out of it. It also kills the immersion when there is a pile of random crates or barrels standing out of place in the middle of nowhere ... it just looks wrong and plays boring!

I hate to say it, but this screen shot shows what I'm talking about:



I mean I guess it kind of makes sense in this industrial setting, but all of the cover still looks highly artificially placed, kind of like something in Brothers in Arms. It's too bad, too because the map otherwise looks unbelievable. All of the crates and barrels are at perfect geometric angles that just happen to provide people with the perfect cover ... it just makes an otherwise realistic looking scene look very strange.

True, yet it is still a game, some sense of balancing is to be expected. Unless the map layout itself is built with balancing in mind, if it's based on reality which i assume, it doesn't necessarily mean it's balanced at all by default layout?

For your looks it might be nice to remove all these artificially placed things, only to hear you whine and cry when the game comes out and one team literary hammers the other due to map layout.

However i can agree that Brothers In Arms was indeed exaggerated with unnatural cover placed everywhere.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

That shot doesn't look too bad as there is still some open area, although from a defensive perspective, the crates look out of place, but at least it is not crowded. If I were the Russians, I would be leaving the areas open so it was harder for the Germans to cross.

Also, I don't believe Hockeywarrior will whine and cry if there isn't enough cover when the game come out, at least I hope not

 

[Hirmuinen]

There has to be some cover for the sake of gameplay, sure it might look little out of place to see completely fine truck in middle of the road, but it's still better than not have it. If people want to play open area duck shooting then they can do that with custom maps. TW will hopefully aim this game to a little bigger audiance that offers fine line between realism and fun, like RO ostfront has done. I think the clear majority would rather have well balanced maps than nitpicked realism-simulation with no forgiviness.

Adding something more realistic as cover like shell holes and so on, then I agree. But just leaving areas empty then no. Even better would be if the bodies, tank wrecks and buildings would be destroyable and stayed for the whole round, so the battlefield would be dynamic. But because of limitations that's not happening.

 

[CCCP]

At first I was ok with "extra cover" but Now I have to admit it does look odd,
boxes in perfect order right where you need them , something is wrong with this picture.
It would be really cool if devs could randomly place certain cover every time map restarts so boxes are in different location every time and more randomly placed
But if you can destroy them would be even better, throw satchel blow this crap into mist or roll :IS2: over it

 

[Ralfst3r]

I kinda agree with Hockeywarrior. It was rediculous in Hell's Highway.

 

[CCCP]

I kinda agree with Hockeywarrior. It was rediculous in Hell's Highway.

Killed the game for me